Originally Posted by Fordom Doesn't matter. In a few years their will be no christians left.
But I must say that I hate muslims more than christians.
Sorry for my late reply, I've been busy.
I can safely say that there will be plentiful of Christians and Muslims throughout your lifetime and for unforseeable generations to come. So don't you worry!
But besides that, you should seek professional help. You have a complex, and you project your complex, with furious hatred, on religious believers. That's not very productive. Instead, you should try and figure out why religious believers make you react the way you do.
Originally Posted by Fördom We will never believe! Never!
A few posts back you urged us to embrace the old Scandinavian religion, make up your mind.
//EE
In Christ...
K, no one asked you to though, so I don't see your need to bark about it.
//EE
now do you see it?
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Originally Posted by Codemonster every time I see this post on the front page "Do you believe"
I think of the most annoying song of all time made by the piece of plastic named "Cher"
No way! I keep thinking the same exact same, but I didn't want to sound like an idiot, thanks for taking that bullet. Now my mind can be at ease.
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It's difficult to imagine we're the only thing that exists.
We're part of the physical world, we're a set of rules, and those rules must have had a creator, that's how a physical creature like me would reason, at least.
But nevertheless our logic seems to go beyond what's physical. Our mind is something more than just "physical atoms". We must have a connection to a place beyond this universe, and perhaps there, we'd be able to think beyond individuality.
And between all of us we conform a single being, and that being is what's giving us that feeling so called "faith", and thereby we can conclude that this being is the true god, and we must bow to him, and kill everyone who opposes it.
Religious Gods are abstracts invented by men. I don't believe in a God but I can't rule out the possibility of something like a higher power somewhere in the universe flying around creating stuff.
I strongly believe every single religion is wrong however.
Originally Posted by phanto Religious Gods are abstracts invented by men. I don't believe in a God but I can't rule out the possibility of something like a higher power somewhere in the universe flying around creating stuff.
I strongly believe every single religion is wrong however.
My thoughts exactly. Any atheist that claims they know there is no higher power is also acting on faith and is no different than their opposition. The idea that the human-like characters that have been passed down through history are even less likely to exist, and there is no logical reasoning to believe in them, not to mention to base your life according to their beliefs.
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That's kind of what I've been focusing my studies on; removing the "clothing" and taking a peep on what's beneath so to speak. ^^
Focusing on the mechanism of faith(every person holds a faith - it's their meaning based contextualization apparatus) and why it's so deeply cheerished by people.
Further focusing on the stupidity of arguing about "who's book is right". Humans hold faith, it's an integral part of being human, some cloth it in scientific symbols, some in religious, but at the core it's the same gurkhin. That's my thingamajig.
The Philistine leaders didn't trust David, even though David had committed many genocides for them. They had heard about how the Israelite dancing girls used to sing about David's killings, singing, "Saul has killed his thousands, and David his tens of thousands." So they worried that David could not be trusted to kill his own people. But they were wrong about that. David was always willing to kill anyone at anytime for any reason whatsoever. That's why God loved him so much.
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -
The Philistine leaders didn't trust David, even though David had committed many genocides for them. They had heard about how the Israelite dancing girls used to sing about David's killings, singing, "Saul has killed his thousands, and David his tens of thousands." So they worried that David could not be trusted to kill his own people. But they were wrong about that. David was always willing to kill anyone at anytime for any reason whatsoever. That's why God loved him so much.
Oh laff, I quite enjoyed that read.
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I had been reading that Sceptics Annotated Bible on the link that someone posted early, and I've gotta say... What a waste of someone's time! What person would actually waste their life reading a thousand plus page religious document they don't even beleive in? And all simply to attempt to prove their opinions Which after all, being an opinion cannot be proved. But the person who wrote lacks common sense as well. Like during the contradiction page, they simply ignore the fact that more than one person can have the same name, then at the same time they embrace it in during sections of the website where they want to make themselves seem like experts. They contradict themselves in attempt to make the bible contradict http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/judas.html There's more than one Judas, duh
I just wonder why a person would waste their life creating this site still. I am assuming they are atheist, so they don't beleive in the afterlife, so what sort of award are they supposed to receive upon dieng by creating this? Actually they receive no benefit while living, as well. Are they gonna walk down the street and some other random aetheist pats them on the back and says "Good job man, I love your website!" Christians at least beleive they might receive some sort of heavenly 'browney points', so to speak, by fighting for God and Jesus, but this is just pointless. The bible is the only book I've read over 200 pages to be honest Why would an aetheist even read it? And then create his commentary on each one of the thousands of verses of it. Wow, no life
Originally Posted by Wiiman I had been reading that Sceptics Annotated Bible on the link that someone posted early, and I've gotta say... What a waste of someone's time! What person would actually waste their life reading a thousand plus page religious document they don't even beleive in? And all simply to attempt to prove their opinions Which after all, being an opinion cannot be proved. But the person who wrote lacks common sense as well. Like during the contradiction page, they simply ignore the fact that more than one person can have the same name, then at the same time they embrace it in during sections of the website where they want to make themselves seem like experts. They contradict themselves in attempt to make the bible contradict http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/judas.html There's more than one Judas, duh
I just wonder why a person would waste their life creating this site still. I am assuming they are atheist, so they don't beleive in the afterlife, so what sort of award are they supposed to receive upon dieng by creating this? Actually they receive no benefit while living, as well. Are they gonna walk down the street and some other random aetheist pats them on the back and says "Good job man, I love your website!" Christians at least beleive they might receive some sort of heavenly 'browney points', so to speak, by fighting for God and Jesus, but this is just pointless. The bible is the only book I've read over 200 pages to be honest Why would an aetheist even read it? And then create his commentary on each one of the thousands of verses of it. Wow, no life
If you're going to mock someone, at least be a little less ignorant about it.
It is just plain downright ignorant to criticize anything you have no knowledge of, if anything Atheists should read the bible, because according to Christians, it is hands down proof of God's existence. Simply writing off a book we haven't read would be childish and ignorant, those Atheists that do (like the one's who claim 100% that there is no God) might as well be thrown in the same boats as a person who bases their life on faith.
I should start by pointing out that the fact that anyone claims that the bible is the 100% true word of a deity is just downright foolish, and should take the time to study early Christian history and how the bible was put together. I could go more into it, but it's best for you to research on the subject yourself and draw your own conclusion from there.
Though there are many people who still shrug off this argument, so for those that do, we have to show that even though they believe their bible that they hold is the 100% unshakable word of God, the messages in there are contradictory and morally repugnant.
It would be a good idea for you to look up the scientific method. Anyone can just claim that the bible is full of contradictions and a crazy nut job God who murders random people, but in order to confirm that, you'll have to have evidence to back up your claim, hence, we have a dedicated person or group of dedicated people who have taken the trouble to point these things out. What they have there is more than just an opinion, they at least have a leg to stand on. Stating that the writer has no life is just plain insulting, especially for someone who's done something that (even though you refuse to see it) has a genuine point. Do you consider every person who undergoes intense research a person who has no life? There are people who devote years, decades, even a majority of their life to intense research that helps advance mankind, did they all just waste their life?
Your thoughts on the Atheist lifestyle are also just plain offensive, a typical Christian view of "an Atheist has no purpose, and a less meaningful life". Granted, you didn't just come right out and say that, but you hinting at it quite hard. Right from the get-go you say "so what sort of award are they supposed to receive upon dieng by creating this?" which is completely missing the point. First of all, people who believe in an Afterlife don't have to worry as much about the life they live now, after all, you believe you're going somewhere better (which in itself makes your life on earth more pointless, don't you think?). Atheists don't have that, we instead know that this life is the only one we've got so life is better spent trying to improve life here on earth, part of which is trying to get people to stop killing each other.
One of my major qualms with religion is that most of the popular outspoken evangelist ones tend to have a philosophy of "Man is basically evil", which is just like the life on earth issue, it puts it in a state of "why bother?". Psychology already demonstrates that there has to be a reason for someone to do something, if there isn't, that person is either withholding information, or they have a mental illness. Modern society, fueled by politics, ignorance and religion don't seem to grasp this concept, and instead of treating the cause, they go after the effect. Jailing a person accomplishes nothing, it may function as a weak deterrent, but if the conditions are right a person will commit a crime regardless of the consequences.
There are many factors which go into creating these conditions, the major ones have to do with poverty, social status, history, 'love', feeling accepted, ignorance, etc. For instance, if a person isn't desperate for money to live, would they need a reason to steal? In some cases, yes, but there still is a reason. Celebrities, like Winona Ryder, might steal as a career move (as it gave her quite a bit of press, and even some roles after the fact as well), other well to do people might do it to make themselves look 'cool' in front of their friends, or as a way to get attention or they might even just plain enjoy the activity and view it as a game of sorts (in which case, they might need help [especially for more serious crimes like murder, though I don't necessarily even regard stealing as a crime in most cases {I tend to ignore stealing in the case of desperation, vs. haves taking from have nots, like taxes} and it's possible with a little learning and guidance these people might be able to find ways to practice their activity within the law]).
Jailing has also been known to cause more problems than good. Granted, the Jailing companies get quite a marvelous amounts of profit, but the cost on the people is outrageous. Aside from monetary problems, many non-violent offenders and wrongful imprisonment cases that are jailed have a higher chance of committing a violent crime when they get out. Also, going back to conditions, if someone commits a crime due to anxiety or poverty, locking someone up for a period of time, taking away a hefty portion of their money(freedom) and vastly decreasing their chance of finding decent work they can live off of, essentially you're creating the same situation they were in, if not worse. Great job, now you've got a repeat offender.
I care very deeply about the world I live in, it breaks my heart to see so many people suffering because other people don't seem to care about it too. Some people will say that there will always be poverty, there will always be crime, there will always be a large amount of the earths population that are starving, and most of the people who say this have the means to help do something about it. Hence, unless you change my view on that, I can never accept/tolerate Religious notions of original sin or "Man is inclined to evil". It blows my mind that religious nuts preach that this life is only a test to get to heaven, then the next second they want to run the world.
Another issue I have with religion is tolerance for human rights, as I've touched on earlier in this thread and stated how religious groups have been the forefront opposition to every minority seeking equal rights, be it blacks, women, homosexuals and transsexuals. Is it really that difficult for you to accept that we aren't animals, and is it really that difficult for us to ask to be treated like equals?
But that's just my struggle, I'm sure if you've talked to any other Atheists, they might tell you they are struggling for something else, but to equate it just fighting back because other people might think we're keen, well, I'll just say if you're going to trash the opposition, please try to understand what the opposition is.
I was in a debate with someone not too long ago, the subject of homosexuality came up, of course, him being a Christian he condemned it. I had already hit him hard on his religion, and he had brought up that he doesn't let his religion dictate his beliefs. He constantly called me close minded and that I would never see past my own opinion, despite me telling him several times that if he can come up with the evidence, I'll agree with him. So I asked him, "Why do you feel homosexuality is wrong?". I asked him this question at least 15 times in the debate, instantly he would say "Why does it matter? No matter what you say is going to convince me, so what's the point in trying?"/irony, but that was only to that specific question, every other question he would answer. First of all, pot calling the kettle black moment when he said I was close minded, second, if you can't think of a reason to justify your beliefs (especially ones dealing with hate, in which case, it's a phobia), then why believe it? Third, if I don't know your argument, how do you know if I am not going to agree with you? What if your reason actually is compelling enough for me to agree with you? Same goes for you, if you take the time to learn what our argument is, who knows, maybe you'll agree with it. And look at it in more ways than one, maybe someone might say the same thing a different way only this time it makes sense to you, that's how it worked for me. I ran into an old friend who had heard me debate a creationist, in which my friend stated afterwards "Weren't you the one who told me that scientists were satanic conspirators that were trying to detract people from God, and that dinosaur fossils were fake/put on the planet as a test of faith?". Shows you what kind of moron I used to be.
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@Horrendous: For the record, Christians must try very hard to help the world while we are here, because we do not beleive "we are going to somewhere better." We all like to imagine that, but that's not ours to judge. But it is our choice, by living a good life and loving one another as we have been told, we might be allowed in the kingdom of heaven. Christians must be very motivated as to what kind of person to be so that they might pass unto heaven after the judgement. I christian must do much more than beleif and be baptized, they must conduct themselves in a christian life afterward, and follow the doctrine. Truth is, I don't know if I'm going to heaven or hell after the judgement. I would like to think heaven, but it's not for me to judge. I've committed several sins in this lifetime, and will probably commit many more. All I can do is try to learn from my lessons and attempt to perfect my life(unsuccessfully of course, but hopefully I learn from my mistakes and become one step closer to God's kingdom.) Perhaps this agrees with the 'Man is basically evil' concept, but in some ways that concept is completely true. Man is the most intelligent life form; man is concious of his decisions, yet he still sins.
And I don't beleive that the bible is a 100% word for word(of God.) As stated in my earlier post, I beleive many of the books to be coded, such as Genessis and Revelation. If we were to cast out certain books and go "Naw that one's fake man, it's just basic bible mumbo jumbo", we would be filled with the constant question of which ones are real and which aren't. The bible is completely intended to be coded it seems to indicate as well. "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee." Matthew 18:19 Is this verse say that if I view pornography I should literally pluck out my own eye and throw it away? Of course not, it means that I should repent for my sins after I have committed them, and try to learn from my mistakes.
And to be honest-
"It blows my mind that religious nuts preach that this life is only a test to get to heaven, then the next second they want to run the world." I competely agree with this!(Oh geeze I must be quite the open minded fellow, perhaps I am overcoming this ignorancy they speak of ) I am against what some might call "Organized Religion" I don't support how catholism ran the world during mideval times and beyond and now tries to control all the people under the catholism sect of the religion. But at the same time do I hold anything against Catholics or treat them any different? No of course not! Man is man. I harbor no hatred or phobia to homosexual, even if I dislike the choice of lifestyle they have taken. The new testament speaks of love and forgiveness. The new testament is the law to be followed, where as the old testament still remains guide lines to our lives, but is not the law anymore. I think all men were created equal straight, gay, transvistite, different ethnicity, different relgions, aetheist, and many more. Again, the old testament is in facts ways to follow in living your life, but it is no longer the law since the coming of christ and his new testament.
Also, that was more of a personal attack on Steve Wells the creater of Sceptics Annoted bible than on aetheism in general, though I see how it interpretted that way
I understand the opposition completely. Inside every christian is a constant battle between faith and doubt. I know I in fact fight this battle every day. Many christians try to publicize their faith in several ways simply to prove to themselves they have it. Unless an aetheist was a previous christian during a time in their life when they were grown enough that they could question they ways of the world(ex. teenage years), then I do not think any of the aetheist understand the opposition, and that is what I call ignorant. Everyday I have thoughts asking me why I want to go out of my way to help someone else when I'm not 100% sure whether there will be an afterlife and God, but my faith always prevails. It is human to doubt, and it is christian to doubt. I won't sugar coat it, if I was an aetheist I would be in jail by now simply because I would have no reason to do good. What more justice do you need?
In the end, your opinion is your opinion, and I respect that.
Edit:
Oh and in regards to your extremely false assumption "But that's just my struggle, I'm sure if you've talked to any other Atheists", which I'm assuming was a false assumption that I've never come across an aetheist before in my life When in fact I had this conversation and arguement with Aetheist multiple times before and was even successful in converting one Though I could not convert him to christianity, I was capable of getting him to agree that the benefits of actually beleiving in something out there is far superior to beleiving the beleif of not beleiving anything. He now very devoted into the jewish religion I'm positively happy that he decided to stand for something in his life.
Religion is the thing that keeps me going
I beleive I heard the Dalli Llama say something like this once in a video we watched World Religions Class, something similair to this, "I don't care if you're Hindu, Christian, Jewish, or whatever, just beleive in something!" Why make your beleif the beleif that you don't beleive in anything?
And speaking toward this guy being helpful for the other aetheist out there, well basic common sense stuff like I said about the two Judas's is overlooked, so I don't consider this guys opinion to be very useful at all.
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) I am against what some might call "Organized Religion" I don't support how catholism ran the world during mideval times and beyond and now tries to control all the people under the catholism sect of the religion. But at the same time do I hold anything against Catholics or treat them any different? No of course not! Man is man. I harbor no hatred or phobia to homosexual, even if I dislike the choice of lifestyle they have taken. The new testament speaks of love and forgiveness. The new testament is the law to be followed, where as the old testament still remains guide lines to our lives, but is not the law anymore. I think all men were created equal straight, gay, transvistite, different ethnicity, different relgions, aetheist, and many more. Again, the old testament is in facts ways to follow in living your life, but it is no longer the law since the coming of christ and his new testament.
When in fact I had this conversation and arguement with Aetheist multiple times before and was even successful in converting one 