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3kliksphilip

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31st March, 2011 at 16:24:14 -

This is the one thing that gets me with religion. Once they can prove something, I'm totally fine with what ever it is that they've proven. Because it's been proven. Simple enough.

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Resident-Pyromaniac

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31st March, 2011 at 18:27:22 -

Ok, Good points. I'll get to work on that. throw you some articles pretty soon here.

 
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Eternal Man [EE]

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31st March, 2011 at 18:28:57 -

There are scientific evidence for a life after death.

This thread was most certainly dead, but now it's alive and kicking again.

 
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Resident-Pyromaniac

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31st March, 2011 at 18:48:49 -

Ok, 'twas a nautilus shell I was thinking of, but it's there in a conch.

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/feb252005/555.pdf

read the second page, it has the Nautilus.

 
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Pisarz Ksiazkowicz (Maciej Janiszewski)

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2nd April, 2011 at 00:11:33 -

Hm... Do I believe in God... you mean that extremely powerful being that controls everyones lives?
No. I don't. And I still can't understand why people want to believe that they actually don't have any control of their lives and they are just a part of someone's great master plan...

I believe, that every our decision has consequences, everything is relative. Every event is result of our previous actions (and decisons of other people).
I believe that future is flexible but of course predictable.

The afterlife? I believe, that it actually exists, but in other form. Ascending to a higher plain of existence, leaving organic body behind.

 
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Resident-Pyromaniac

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2nd April, 2011 at 16:09:26 -

Well, If you Really boil it down, We have two choices to make. Who are you Going to follow,(God, or satan/man)
and, far more important; Who will you trust to get you to heaven.(God, or yourself)

A Human Being Naturally wants to serve. And the sense of being rebellious and "finding your own way"
is simply serving The flesh, which works in concert with satan.


 
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Phredreeke

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2nd April, 2011 at 16:16:30 -

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Pisarz Ksiazkowicz (Maciej Janiszewski)

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2nd April, 2011 at 20:57:39 -

Satan? You mean - your human nature, that forces you to do things, that are potentially wrong if you aren't self-disciplined enough?

 
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Silveraura

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2nd April, 2011 at 23:53:51 -


Originally Posted by Resident-Pyromaniac
Well, If you Really boil it down, We have two choices to make. Who are you Going to follow,(God, or satan/man)
and, far more important; Who will you trust to get you to heaven.(God, or yourself)

A Human Being Naturally wants to serve. And the sense of being rebellious and "finding your own way"
is simply serving The flesh, which works in concert with satan.



A human being naturally wants to serve? I bed to differ. A human being has a natural curiosity beyond his own existence because we are conscious enough to acknowledge that there is a beyond our own existence. This lead us to question how our existence came to be... and well, humans can build stuff, so they took what they knew best and said that we must have been built or 'created', but who has the power to create the builders? An almighty creator. A God.
This is the basic philosophy from which the building blocks of early Christianity was built. It has nothing to do with a natural want to serve. In fact, the entire prospect of hell and Satan was completely devised with an attempt to scare people toward God. In early monotheistic religions, there was only a marked distance from God. You were either very near him, warm, happy, and within the company of his greatness or you very far from him, alone, cold, and scared. How far you were was a result of how well you followed him.

A single all powerful creator is just one of many archetypes that can be used to feel yourself close to divinity as a whole, just as the God and Goddess are two generic archetypes used widely in Wicca and how many other Gods are used in other forms of polytheistic faiths. When you start building a book and try to create literal history (as opposed to metaphorical or symbolic legends and stories) about how and why these mere archetypes came into existence is when you start polluting the entire idea of faith, which is to bring comfort to an always searching human soul for the existence beyond our own existence.

The study of real human psychology does wanders when it comes to explaining and understanding religion and why so many people believe what they believe.

 
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Resident-Pyromaniac

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4th April, 2011 at 00:18:25 -

Yes, I meant that we do not Want to serve, but we do serve. however, the fruit of service follow only two paths.
no matter how righteous you are, apart from Christ, the Bible says your works are as "filthy rags".

Only in Christ can anything of eternal value come to fruition. in fact, no matter what I say, the only way any of you will be convinced is if the Holy spirit works through what I post here.

 
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Silveraura

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4th April, 2011 at 02:02:54 -


Originally Posted by Resident-Pyromaniac
Yes, I meant that we do not Want to serve, but we do serve. however, the fruit of service follow only two paths.
no matter how righteous you are, apart from Christ, the Bible says your works are as "filthy rags".

Only in Christ can anything of eternal value come to fruition. in fact, no matter what I say, the only way any of you will be convinced is if the Holy spirit works through what I post here.



Which probably wont happen, because the entire idea of "The holy spirit" or Jesus Christ, or God, or however your denomination of Christianity decides to perceive all of this - is just that, Christian. Just one among many other faiths: a handful of which are widely more popular in different areas of the world, many even in your own country - but none barely as outspoken since their goal in life typically isn't to try to convert "save" everyone.

Edited by Silveraura

 
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Don Luciano

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7th April, 2011 at 09:02:21 -

I didnt want to involve myself into this topic, but since i am, i just want to say how pointless is to prove God.
You can believe he exist or not. -"it's that simple" -quoted Bob "i know lame" - didnt really cause its not a quote" unquote.

Religion and belief in God are not the same. Some people may believe in God, but at the same time they do not support certain religious beliefs or church as an institution. In many times in history wars were fought because of it (mostly over which laws, political decisions, etc.. should be applied, changed). Thats why today we have catholics, protestants, etc...

Bible has been rewriten many times although the principle of it is basicly the same. The church occassianly added/changed parts as the church through history acted in politics, wars, law, diplomacy and education.

If someone is trying to convert, save you, eat a vaffle and think about it. or don't i don't care.

The good thing today is that at least you don't get killed anymore if you say you dont believe in God. So be happy about that. (though some third world countries still do it)

And personally I don't believe in the stereotypical God. But i do believe in existence of some kind of a higher force. And it would be cool if it had a hammer, now when i think about it.

And the point is it's pointless to argue whetever God can be proven if you can't prove it. So stop doing it.

And i have no idea how to embed a youtube video, so thats it! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA

Edited by Don Luciano

 
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7th April, 2011 at 10:14:35 -

I think the religious arguments are rather interesting. It eventually boils down to:
- That you don't need to prove God for him to exist
- That God doesn't exist without proof
- derail derail religion is bad atheists go to hells we dont need religion no we need religion it is pointless and ur stupid for believing it in it no if we dont have relagon then we all burn in hell and the world collapses into anarchy and everyone gets sodom'ed

Now if you filter out the 80% of arguments which is that last point, you actually get a good debate. The funny thing is that people, theist or atheist, will actually pick a conclusion first, THEN choose points that support that conclusion.

Also, it's interesting that it eventually boils down between "theist" and "atheist" sides, with all the various monotheist people clumping into the theist group and the agnostic group basically just shaking their heads and walking away.

 
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Silveraura

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7th April, 2011 at 10:30:04 -

I agree, once you boil out the senseless initial "he exists, just believe me" and the "prove it or he doesn't exist" argument, theres generally an interesting discussion. I try to keep an open mind on this discussion and I've improved vastly over the past year. However when someone starts declaring their ideas as facts and more so, dismiss any further discussion by simply stating that their God will eventually give me reason to believe them, it does really irritate me to the point of dismissing their side of the argument entirely and ultimately dismissing them as a narrow-minded fool.

I must say though, Don Luciano made some of the most rational sense I've heard in this discussion so far... and Muz summed it all up pretty damn well in under 160 words.

 
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Phredreeke

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7th April, 2011 at 11:52:14 -

Exactly, you can't prove God doesn't exist... Nor can you prove that Odin, Zeus or Ra doesn't exist!

 
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