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AndyUK

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17th April, 2011 at 16:17:06 -

If everything was created by God what created God? And If God is the only exception to the rule that God created everything why is God the only exception to the rule?

 
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17th April, 2011 at 20:11:27 -

But that argument doesn't work if you consider that simply being the exception to that rule makes God what it is. i.e. God wasn't created.

 
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17th April, 2011 at 22:50:14 -


Originally Posted by AndyUK
If everything was created by God what created God? And If God is the only exception to the rule that God created everything why is God the only exception to the rule?



The idea of a creator isn't applicable to God, since that idea is inherent to our universe. For the notion of a creator to be of interest one must first assume that God is inherent to our universe too, in turn going against the very presumptions of the initial question, i.e God being the creator of the universe.

God doesn't need a creator since the very idea of a creator was created by God, to speak theologian.

 
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Jon C-B

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17th April, 2011 at 22:53:14 -

kind of late to the party, but om kind of interested as to specifically why people dont believe in God.

 
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Phredreeke

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18th April, 2011 at 18:49:16 -


Originally Posted by Jon C-B
kind of late to the party, but om kind of interested as to specifically why people dont believe in God.



One might as well ask why people believe in just one god.

 
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18th April, 2011 at 21:57:50 -


Originally Posted by Phredreeke

Originally Posted by Jon C-B
kind of late to the party, but om kind of interested as to specifically why people dont believe in God.



One might as well ask why people believe in just one god.


Let's think about this.

Using the standard definition of God, a being that permeates everything, set's everything into motion, existed before time, and basically makes the rules.
If you're to believe that the existence of God is absolutely true, then you must also believe in absolutes. And that the idea of perfection exists in such a being. And that idea is the only true one, since after all this being is God.

Now let's just say there are two of such beings,

Now let's say they disagree, but if they're both all powerful ect. what happens then?
And how could they disagree if they are both perfect?

So then let's just say they both agree on the same things, and they both are exactly the same, and they both exist in the same places.
Why not just call these "two" God's one, since they are essentially "one."

I do believe that their exists other "gods," but they are not the God, and they only have the power God allows them.

EDIT: "they're" to "there are"

Edited by UrbanMonk

 
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Johnny Look

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19th April, 2011 at 00:23:16 -


Originally Posted by UrbanMonk

Originally Posted by Phredreeke

Originally Posted by Jon C-B
kind of late to the party, but om kind of interested as to specifically why people dont believe in God.



One might as well ask why people believe in just one god.


Let's think about this.

Using the standard definition of God, a being that permeates everything, set's everything into motion, existed before time, and basically makes the rules.
If you're to believe that the existence of God is absolutely true, then you must also believe in absolutes. And that the idea of perfection exists in such a being. And that idea is the only true one, since after all this being is God.



And why would god be absolutely powerful ? Why would he be perfect ?
In antiquity people believed in that idea because they thought of god as an answer to all their biggest mysteries and attributed their creation to a god (I'm not necessarily talking about the christian god, curiously every religion, pagan or not has a superior figure who supposedly created us and the world) so to us, it made sense to worship him and see him as a powerful figure since he was our creator supposedly.
But nowadays, now that we know it wasn't some superior entity who created us or the world, what would lead me to think he's a powerful being ?
Because in the bible it says he wiped two entire cities because they didn't believe in god ?


 
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AndyUK

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19th April, 2011 at 00:30:41 -


Originally Posted by Jon C-B
kind of late to the party, but om kind of interested as to specifically why people dont believe in God.



Lack of evidence.

 
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Johnny Look

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19th April, 2011 at 00:49:13 -

Actually I don't believe because I don't see any reason to. Lack of evidence doesn't help but you could ask the question "why don't you believe in allah ?" "Why don't you believe in Ganesha?" "Why don't you believe in Zeus ?" and the answer would be similar.
I used to believe in god, but I grew tired of making excuses and justifications to myself to justify my beliefs, in the end I realized whatever religion you pick doesn't make sense. They are so different yet so similar but you will never find any kind of proof of it's existence. I can understand why people would follow a religion, specially if they were raised by religious people but I've grown to realize in the end it's just a mental prison you refuse to leave for no reason at all.

 
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19th April, 2011 at 03:43:09 -


Originally Posted by Johnny Look
And why would god be absolutely powerful ? Why would he be perfect ?


We're not talking about the same thing here, you're defining something else. It might be your "god," but it's not God.

Perfection is in the sense that he created everything, and even created our very plane of existence.
God isn't something that is confined to physical constrains.
This is the very definition of God.


Originally Posted by Johnny Look
But nowadays, now that we know it wasn't some superior entity who created us or the world, what would lead me to think he's a powerful being ?

And we know this how? Have we seen every dimension? Have we been everywhere in space? Did we have an eye witness who saw the beginning of everything? Do tell.
Sorry but science isn't the answer to these questions. It's only our human explanation for the origins of the evidence we find.


Originally Posted by Johnny Look
Because in the bible it says he wiped two entire cities because they didn't believe in god ?


This isn't true.
Care to specify your source rather than making things up?


 
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s-m-r

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19th April, 2011 at 03:43:31 -


Originally Posted by AndyUK

Originally Posted by Jon C-B
kind of late to the party, but om kind of interested as to specifically why people dont believe in God.



Lack of evidence.



I second this guy (with apologies to AndyUK should he find this unsettling... ).

 
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21st April, 2011 at 01:24:12 -

Firstly, to make it clear. I've been catholic/christian before for quite some time. And I always thought “well, if God's got this infinite goodness and justice they all say, what's up with all the uneven opportunity on the world different people experience? I couldn't accept the fact everyone's going to either heaven or hell and stay there forever, not if there's a God who's infinitely just”

So I started going after some explanation and came across spiritsm. I was skeptical in the beginning thinking it would be just another “me too!” religion. But no, just to start with, it's not a religion but a study and finding of facts. It by far explains better all the things we don't quite know when it comes to the afterlife matter. Make yourself a favor and read the ‘book of spirits' no matter what your religion is, whether you believe in God or not. You will find it to be interesting. The book answers several question written by advanced spirits. After searching and reading it all you'll be convinced it is not invented by men.

I'm no expert on the matter but have read all the basic work of Allan Kardec(he didn't invent spiritsm, only put together what spirits from different levels have said) The doctrine is formed by the spirits. And all the ritual, candle, black chicken whatever you hear about it. Forget it! Then it's not it!) If you don't believe in spirits(we're spirits/souls), just search on Chico Xavier to start with. Hell! Even Arthur Conan Doyle(Sherlock Holmes creator) went ahead and tried to unmask spiritsm and became a believer himself. And by studying the whole thing you will understand why many spirits communications aren't phony!
believe me when I tell you there's WAY too much proof out there about mediumship, psychographics therefore spirits!

Ok, just to summarize my opinion on what I've concluded so far after reading A LOT on this.
-There's a God, he's the primary cause of everything.
-Incarnation exists, we evolve (spiritually) through many incarnations (not only on earth)
-We ‘pay' for everything we do, be it here or afterlife or in the next incarnation or even later. Thus, learning from our experiences.
-Do all those good things Jesus have said. Love the next person! Forgive etc. Which we all know is the right thing but we still fail to do so quite often.
-That men pride gets in the way of believing what he doesn't understand yet.
-You religion doesn't matter. It's all about your intentions, what you do(gets judged on your current ignorance/circumstance of course).

There's just way too much that could be discussed about it. I just want to throw these little out there and make one curious enough to go after it. You won't regret.

 
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Phredreeke

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21st April, 2011 at 01:58:01 -


Originally Posted by UrbanMonk


Originally Posted by Johnny Look
Because in the bible it says he wiped two entire cities because they didn't believe in god ?


This isn't true.
Care to specify your source rather than making things up?



I think he's referring to Sodom and Gomorrah. However, their sin wasn't as much a lack of faith as a lack of hospitality.

 
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Johnny Look

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21st April, 2011 at 05:28:54 -



We're not talking about the same thing here, you're defining something else. It might be your "god," but it's not God.
Perfection is in the sense that he created everything, and even created our very plane of existence.
God isn't something that is confined to physical constrains.
This is the very definition of God.



And who choose that definition, god himself ?



And we know this how? Have we seen every dimension? Have we been everywhere in space? Did we have an eye witness who saw the beginning of everything? Do tell.
Sorry but science isn't the answer to these questions. It's only our human explanation for the origins of the evidence we find.




This isn't about science or religion this is about facts, about what's real not about stuff from some other dimension or some ridiculous garbage like that. And why do you need a eye witness for that when there are ways even more accurate than that to take information as a fact ?



This isn't true.
Care to specify your source rather than making things up?



What if instead of accusing people of making stuff up you just did your little investigation ?
How many cities did god destroy in the bible exactly?

In any case I was talking about sodom and gomorrah.

 
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21st April, 2011 at 13:01:55 -


Originally Posted by Conan of Cimmeria

I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.



 
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