That's true. But the strive is encouraged, that should be appreciated. Though it ultimately boils down to your own personal interpretation of what that means('resembling Jesus Christ in actions and spirit' that is).
Also, J-Look is right about the Abrahamic religions. They are all focused on the same God, though their inert interpretation of God and what God want's us to do differ. There is no arguing about that, simple facts.
Originally Posted by Eternal Man [EE] Also, J-Look is right about the Abrahamic religions. They are all focused on the same God, though their inert interpretation of God and what God want's us to do differ. There is no arguing about that, simple facts.
So to say that they are the same is wrong then.
It's not a different interpretation, they're are total opposites.
Originally Posted by UrbanMonk Yes, striving to be Christ-like.
Originally Posted by Eternal Man [EE] Also, J-Look is right about the Abrahamic religions. They are all focused on the same God, though their inert interpretation of God and what God want's us to do differ. There is no arguing about that, simple facts.
So to say that they are the same is wrong then.
It's not a different interpretation, they're are total opposites.
That does not make them two, separate Gods. It's the same God, the only God. The problem lies in humanbeings' interpretation.
EXAMPLE:
Person A: I'm in the mood for some lovin'!
Person B hurries to the bedroom, person C starts writing a love poem.
Conclusion: They interpreted person A differently. However, person A is still just one person.
Conclusion: They interpreted person A differently. However, person A is still just one person.
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Originally Posted by UrbanMonk So how would you equate that to be deceitful vs. telling the truth?
God: thou shalt not lie
Allah: Lie
I have no responsability to try and justify differing imageries of God. I haven't read the entire the entire Qu'ran, or lived in Islam since year 600~. It's just the way it is, all three religions are striving towards the same God.
Originally Posted by Johnny Look If that's the case then very few to none christians are actually "christ-like".
Yeah, I know, I wish they'd stop calling themselves Christians when they aren't.
So if it was that easy for you to see, then you should be able to tell when a real one comes along.
Originally Posted by Johnny Look From what I understood from some of my muslim friends, the islam is the exact opposite of what you said. They advocate truth, peace and forgiveness, not the opposite.
Of course they'd tell you that! Their Qu'ran teaches them to lie if it furthers Islam.
You know how ridiculous what you are saying is ? So all muslims like to be lied at, murdered etc.. ? Is that what islam is all about ? They are the bad guies while christians are the good ones ? See, that's exactly why both can't get along, muslims see christians exactly the same way.
I'll say it once again, you can't believe in what you read in the quran, take it word by word and think you know all about it. It's actually much more subjective than the bible. You can't also believe in everything you read in the internet, specially when it's written by people with less-than-clear intentions.
If you think about it for a second, my muslim friends would have little gain by trying to convince me of their religion by lying, once I'd found out it's completely different from what they told me, I'd give up on it and they would lose my trust. Makes no sense at all, it's just...dumb.
Everyone percieves and worships the same divine entity no matter how they perceive it. Even polytheistic Gods are all many names for a single divine entity. Christians seem to have an incredibly hard time grasping this concept.
Just a side-note on the Crusades - they were first and foremost a financial campaign, under the guise of a religious conflict (the religious angle was included to get support for them from Christian Europe). So to talk about them in a purely religious context is a bit misleading. It was a bit like going to war with Iraq under the guise of "a war on terror", which itself has religious overtones, rather than the simple grab power and resources it is.
As regards that hyperlink, the stuff about Muslim lying, I turned off after the sentence, "All but some of the most fundamental Muslims consider the act of Al-taqiyya or lying to non-Muslims to be a good work" - because I know from experience that this isn't the case. From what I gather, al-taqiyya is a concealing of your true faith under extreme duress, like under the threat of torture or persecution, not just 'lying'. I would expect better from you UrbanMonk.
It's true that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all interlinked (monotheistic, same prophets, same events, very similar laws). I'm sure the differences between Eastern Orthodox Christianity and say, for instance, Mormonism, can be as large as the differences between Shia Islam and Roman Catholicism (in some respects). Baha'i is another Abrahamic faith which recognises Judaism, Christianity and Islam but considers those corrupted - look it up. What Islam was to Christianity, Baha'i is to Islam.
That's not true, the crusades were mainly religious wars, but there was of course some financial gain to be had, just like in any other war. Seeing how much money was lost in that war it's hard to think of it as a financial campaign, at least not the in the sort that the so called War on terror was. There were indeed some extra "motivators" to engage such wars, like glory and money but all this is beside the point.
When I say crusaders I'm not referring to the popes and kings who ordered the crusades while seating in their comfy thrones, I'm talking about those who fought and gave their lives in the name of christianity. They didn't risk their lives for financial gain, they did it because they were devout christians and believed god would help them conquer the jerusalem, the "holy land". The muslims won and they attributed the victory to allah's protection. If it was the other way around christians would claim it was god and I highly doubt urbanmonk would say they were not "christ-like".
They were no less christ-like than the israeli soldiers who won the 6 days war, of that I'm pretty sure.
Well we'll agree to disagree here. There's some good stuff knocking around on t'internet about the economics of the Crusades - what I would say about the Crusades is that even if they did start as religious wars (which I very seriously doubt), then they achieved nothing towards that aim. However, the opening and expanding of trade routes through the Middle East did help Europe prosper. Is it coincidence that the famous House of Medici (which produced numerous popes, think it's about four) in the booming trade city of Florence established itself just after the Crusades ended? And the Muslims didn't 'win' the Crusades as much as it's impossible to 'win' a series of largely incontiguous battles over a hundred years - but what's clear is that the Byzantines lost.
But I'll agree with you on the last point - nobody who fights in any war is 'Christ-like'.
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Edited by UrbanMonk
