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Matt Boothman

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28th January, 2011 at 16:47:44 -

Poll: Do you stick pencils up your bottom?
Yes. - 10 votes
No. - 9 votes
Doubtful. - 6 votes

The thread title is the question I am posing.

Do you believe in God? Or to put it a slightly different way, do you believe there is 'something else'.

I am having a bit of internal doubt and wondering about stuff (nature of the world, meaning of 'God', afterlife and probability thereof).

Let's have a bit of adult debate; no "Christians are stupid" and no "atheists are going to hell" business.

 
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28th January, 2011 at 17:02:15 -

I'll throw you a bone on this one. For full disclosure, during my youth I was raised in a Christian home, and even attended a private Christian school in Midwest USA during my formative years. I currently consider myself a philosophical Taoist. In definitive terms, I'm an agnostic atheist.

I'm of the opinion that, if there is a higher power or universal creative force - a god, gods, or otherwise - we humans haven't figured it out yet. In any case, I've not been convinced one way or another of a supernatural creative force that brought us all here, whatever "here" is.

My thoughts on the afterlife are that the concept was introduced to impose obedience on followers in the here and now, so that those in control would have an easier time staying in power.

Kudos to you on questioning your beliefs, and best of luck to you on that.

 
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28th January, 2011 at 17:29:20 -

I don't believe there is anything personally, but I have no problem if someone else chooses to believe in God or something else. I don't believe in heaven, hell or afterlife. I think once you die that's it. But I do hope there is a heaven or afterlife though - that would be awesome!

I just think that science proves more than any religion - but I also know that science could be completely wrong too. We'll probably never know for sure..

 
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28th January, 2011 at 17:39:29 -

I definitely don't believe in any kind of God.
I do tend to believe that good things happen to good people, so I guess that's kind of like Karma? (although it's maybe more because good/kind/charitable people are more likeable, and getting on with people will take you far in life).

Obviously I have my own "moral compass". If I don't do something, it's because I believe it's wrong - not because I'm afraid of going to hell (or jail either, for that matter).
And as long as they don't push their religion on me, or use it to justify acts I believe are wrong (eg. killing), then I don't really care what anyone else believes.

Edited by Sketchy

 
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Candy Cane
28th January, 2011 at 17:47:29 -

I never really question it, like I don't question alien life, ghosts etc. I do believe man evolved from ape,though. Its rather obvious when you make comparisons. I say this because Ive spoken to a few religious guys who believe God created apes and humans seperately, evolution doesn't really exist blah blah blah, which I believe is nonsense.

"I do tend to believe that good things happen to good people, so I guess that's kind of like Karma?"

I think it's rather the opposite, usually. I believe more in Sod's law than Karma

 
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Johnny Look

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28th January, 2011 at 17:48:44 -

I don't really believe in god or any other diety but if someone proves he/it exists to me, then I'll probably change my mind.
Until then I can't see anything that would lead me to lead me to believe in anything religion related.
People like to believe in god because it gives them comfort. In sunday school you are taught that if you start to doubt your beliefs you might end up in hell, so I'm also lead to believe that people also believe out of fear, of what will happen to them after they die. Things also work the other way around; preaching and spreading "god's word" puts you in a good position to get you a place in heaven. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that anyone defending their views on their beliefs do it with that in mind.

Also, I think it's part of human nature to "explain" something we don't understand by saying it was made by the hand of some superior entity. When humanity discovered fire, they thought it was a diving gift, same for the rain and other phenomena we can explain very easily now.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm just trying to express my views on this subject.




 
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28th January, 2011 at 17:51:22 -

Science is great, it can probably explain every worldly phenomena one day. But science isn't set up in a fashion as to be able to say anything about God or an afterlife. Science is meant to explain the physical, measurable world we inhabit. God or an afterlife are not measurable by those means.

Imagine a bucket.
That bucket contains our entire physical world down to the smallest matter.

Imagine another bucket.
This bucket contains God and the afterlife. ( a strange bucket indeed )

In the first bucket we tinker and measure, finding no proof whatsoever of any god or afterlife. But does that say anything about God at all?
We here at TDC, objective viewers as we are, can say:
"Of course you see no measurable proof of God in there! It's the wrong bucket!"

That's the main reason why there won't be any consolidation between say Dawkins and a theologist, they speak of different buckets.

I myself also find this matter interesting, that's why I study it at the University.

 
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chrilley

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28th January, 2011 at 17:58:22 -

ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

 
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28th January, 2011 at 18:44:01 -

Wow, good thread.

I believe in God, because I know there's a God, and Jesus is his name.

I've been going to church all my life. My grandfather was the pastor of our church up until recently when he turned it over to his son.

To be quite honest I don't go to church because I'm afraid I'll go to hell if I don't. I've also never doubted the existence of God, but I don't think doubting will send anyone to hell either. "To much is given much is required" to quote the Bible.

All my life starting from when I was like 4, I don't remember anything before that, I believed in God. Whenever I got scared about something I'd pray about it, and still do to this day. It didn't always make me feel better, and sometimes my prayers weren't answered right away, or at all. But that's the great thing about God. If he gave me what I wanted when I wanted it instead of just forcing me to trust in him no matter what then he would just be a cosmic santa clause, which wouldn't be that great of a God to me anyway.

I've felt God move in church services before, it's like a sweeping feeling that moves from your head to your feet. And I've seen some crazy things happen, like a guy randomly coming in who had never been to church before, but felt something *pull* him in. And another time when a older guy died on the alter but after the church prayed for him his heart started beating again, and he's alive to this day. (that was last year) Sometimes I'll have something on my mind, or be confused about something I read in the Bible, and then the preacher will say something like "I don't know who this is for, but God just spoke to me and told me to tell you ... " and it'll be exactly what I was thinking about! It's happened so many times I can't count.

Anyway, there's lots of reasons I believe in God, not just because I've felt him before, and I know that someone else will explain all that I said away by leaving it to chance or coincidence. You can tell me that if you want, but like I've said, I've never doubted God's existence in my life, and neither does anyone else who goes to my church, so believe me, I've heard everything.



Lot's of people ask me why I believe in Jesus over all the other God's in existence, and trust me I know all about most other religious and I've heard just about all there is to hear from my friends at school (most of which are Atheist or Muslim, go figure)

The Bible (a collection of 2000-3000 year old religious writings) still doesn't conflict with science after all these years even though many scientific books have been proven wrong many years after it was written. (Flat earth and spontaneous generation anyone?) IT in fact contains some scientific facts that weren't widely believed at the time. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth..." Circle being translated from the original Greek meaning sphere, and: "For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood..." yet years after that was written many believed that using leeches to suck someones blood would cure them of diseases.

Not to mention the fact that the Bible doesn't even conflict within itself either.

How far science has come eh?



I used to own a Quran, I don't remember how I got it, but I had it none-the-less. I was never Muslim mind you, but...
Many people like to say that Allah is the same God as Jesus/Jehovah

Well that believe conflicts directly with the Quran because it describes Allah as the greatest lier of all:

"...and Allah was deceptive, for Allah is the best of deceivers" S. 3:54; cf. 8:30

However the Bible states that God cannot lie:

Hebrews 6:18: [I]t is impossible for God to lie.


Just thought I'd throw that in there for good measure, I would rather God tell me the truth, how am I supposed to trust his word otherwise?

Oh and one more thing, I listen to Holy Ghost Radio on my iphone whenever I can't fall asleep, so if you're curious and want to hear the kinda preaching I hear at my church you can listen here: http://www.holyghostradio.com/

Hope this helps.

 
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28th January, 2011 at 19:35:29 -

I do believe there's a God, heaven, hell, purgatory, etc. I can't say I believe evolution as a whole... at least not macro evolution. I just think it's kind of corny how a man would come from an ape. There's a remarkable link, but I don't see how an animal could become a man. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I believe there's a God because, first off, something had to have started everything that ever was. If there was no God, then how did the universe get here? It couldn't have been created by something which was created by something which was created by something... you'd have an infinite chain of this-created-that. There would be no end to that chain. If there was a God who always existed and always will, then the chain would have a beginning and an end.

With God: God creates universe, universe does stuff, God destroys universe, then everybody exists in an afterlife.

Without God: This matter creates this matter which creates this matter which creates this matter which creates this matter...

In the end, where did all of that matter come from? It had to have come from a beginning. A God.

My two cents.

Edit: Also, I agree with UrbanMonk. Well said.

Edited by W3R3W00F

 
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Candy Cane
28th January, 2011 at 20:04:29 -

"I just think it's kind of corny how a man would come from an ape."



"I don't see how an animal could become a man"

No one can, it would take millions of years.

 
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Eternal Man [EE]

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28th January, 2011 at 20:06:31 -

Good thread! Good atmosphere!

I'll be back later tonight with a more in-depth reply if I get the chance.

 
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28th January, 2011 at 20:07:39 -

Oh, some douche disabled embedding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzeGJC4FQ8c

 
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28th January, 2011 at 20:26:10 -


Originally Posted by UrbanMonk

The Bible (a collection of 2000-3000 year old religious writings) still doesn't conflict with science after all these years even though many scientific books have been proven wrong many years after it was written. (Flat earth and spontaneous generation anyone?) IT in fact contains some scientific facts that weren't widely believed at the time. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth..." Circle being translated from the original Greek meaning sphere, and: "For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood..." yet years after that was written many believed that using leeches to suck someones blood would cure them of diseases.

Not to mention the fact that the Bible doesn't even conflict within itself either.

How far science has come eh?



You should probably re-read the Christian bible, it conflicts with itself plenty of times. As far as science being wrong, you have to consider that modern science hasn't been around too long, and later than the whole "flat earth" garbage, which is mostly attributed to ignorant assumptions, rather than using the scientific method (which had not been developed yet). In modern science, anything is subject to change. If something is proven false, it is replaced by something else, as opposed to the bible which is 100% true despite evidence to the contrary. If you want to claim that the bible is 100% true, you'll have to prove that snakes can talk, burning bushes can talk, people can live in a big fish, and that miracles happen... which they quite obviously do not. Besides, if the events in the bible actually happened as described, God is not the type of guy I'd want to be hanging around with.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html

One of my favorite arguments from christians is the "out of context" argument, which is detailed perfectly in this video,



Personally, there may or may not be a god, but if there is one, he cannot be described in any "holy book" written by men. Men have not figured out much of how life works, they aren't going to know how god works. And all that garbage about being written by god through men, with all the nonsense and politics and petty emotions, it couldn't have been written by a higher power. Bill Hicks makes some great points on this.



As far as Science not coming far, you might just want to get rid of your computer, and not go to the hospital for that fact, of course, if God can provide better.

 
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28th January, 2011 at 20:33:02 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
Oh, some douche disabled embedding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzeGJC4FQ8c

Interesting. There ape species that do that as well, they have even adapted to using crude tools. Unfortunately there are also some groups of chimps that are at war with each other as well as hunting human children (although the second being more due to deforestation than a thought process)

 
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