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Xhunterko



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2nd April, 2010 at 15:49:07 -

"So, what if you coded an engine, and I take it and use it in my game and I don't credit you."

I made it open source didn't I? What do I care then?

So your still maintaining that YOU OWN those sets of colours?

"Does that make it ok to rip it from people?"

If I had taken an entire piece of art, then no. So your saying that not only does a person own a piece of art, but all the colors in it as well? I would like to see what more other people have to say about that. Specifically, every new artist that comes along. They can never use those colors without giving you part credit for their original works?

 
All platforming problems can be mostly solved here:

http://www.clickteam.com/mbfiles2/277308-engine.zip
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/psywakd/platform.gam
www.zephni.com

These are very excellent examples by other people and are very informative.
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I work at the speed of "maybe".

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Hayo

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2nd April, 2010 at 16:50:08 -

You are just hopeless, you take everything I say out of context. forget it.

 
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Jenswa

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2nd April, 2010 at 19:05:43 -

And why shouldn't people be credited for their creative effort?

Especially when you want to use it, because you like it or it saves the effort for you. All they ask in return is a little credit for their effort?

But why use a palette if you can use the entire sRGB colorspace? I am not sure if HP and Microsoft own the sRGB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRGB) colorspace, but they did invent it for the use on the internet. And I am not giving them a special credit for using it, but that's probably because the mentioning of sRGB is enough.


 
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Hayo

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2nd April, 2010 at 19:19:02 -

And while we are at it:
http://www.hayovanreek.nl/HayoPalette1.2.pcx

 
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~Matt Esch~

Stone Goose

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2nd April, 2010 at 19:24:37 -

A palette is an artistic signature in digital artwork, the contrast and tone of any image is affected by these choice of colours. If you are producing digital images from these choice of colours then the result is arguably a derivative work of that palette. If you were to argue otherwise we might ask you why you are using that specific palette in the first place? You must recognise that the palette of choice has some effect on your artwork in order for you to specifically choose it, otherwise you would simply create your own and neglect the contribution that this palette makes to your artwork. If you are taking a palette from someone else you don't have to credit it at all, it's up to the creator you are taking it from. Hayo has already said it takes a long time to produce a palette, and therefore this would give a lot a strength to an argument that says a palette is protected by copyright. The creator reserves the right to its usage, and if they want you to credit them explicitly then you must comply with their terms of use if you so wish to use their work.

 
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Ricky

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2nd April, 2010 at 19:54:22 -


Originally Posted by Xhunterko
"So, what if you coded an engine, and I take it and use it in my game and I don't credit you."

I made it open source didn't I? What do I care then?

So your still maintaining that YOU OWN those sets of colours?

"Does that make it ok to rip it from people?"

If I had taken an entire piece of art, then no. So your saying that not only does a person own a piece of art, but all the colors in it as well? I would like to see what more other people have to say about that. Specifically, every new artist that comes along. They can never use those colors without giving you part credit for their original works?



If they came up with the exact same colours as Hayo (which is extremely unlikely), they would not have to give him credit. But if they just willy nilly come and copy his then yes, Hayo deserves credit. After all, he spent a lot of time working on it. And if you didn't think making a pallet was work, then you wouldn't be copying one in the first place

 
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JustinC



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2nd April, 2010 at 19:57:54 -


Originally Posted by Ricky

Originally Posted by Xhunterko
"So, what if you coded an engine, and I take it and use it in my game and I don't credit you."

I made it open source didn't I? What do I care then?

So your still maintaining that YOU OWN those sets of colours?

"Does that make it ok to rip it from people?"

If I had taken an entire piece of art, then no. So your saying that not only does a person own a piece of art, but all the colors in it as well? I would like to see what more other people have to say about that. Specifically, every new artist that comes along. They can never use those colors without giving you part credit for their original works?



If they came up with the exact same colours as Hayo (which is extremely unlikely), they would not have to give him credit. But if they just willy nilly come and copy his then yes, Hayo deserves credit. After all, he spent a lot of time working on it. And if you didn't think making a pallet was work, then you wouldn't be copying one in the first place



I agree with that.

 
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Ricky

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2nd April, 2010 at 20:10:22 -

I think the odds of coming up with the same 255 colour pallet as someone else are 1/ ( 255^16 million )

 
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Sketchy

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2nd April, 2010 at 22:09:03 -

I don't think it's an issue with large palettes, like the one Hayo posted (or any 256-color palette), because with that many colors to choose from, the specific shades aren't really that important to the overall "feel" of an image.

However, suppose a piece of highly stylized pixelart uses a very limited palette, which contributes significantly to it having a very distinct "feel" - if you use that palette in order to give your own image that same "feel", then that's when you should think about giving credit.

For want of a better example:
http://www.8bittoday.com/images/oct_suspicious_bees_by_manupix.png

Obviously there can be no absolute rule on something like this, but people should be able to use a little common sense and their own moral judgment.

 
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Xhunterko



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2nd April, 2010 at 22:31:48 -

"Obviously there can be no absolute rule on something like this, but people should be able to use a little common sense and their own moral judgment."

That would thereby imply that the person, once again, owns a previously free set of colors. If you or I make a black and white avatar, whose palette is black and white now? Nobody's but ours. And it doesn't matter if it's not black, or white. But that argument says, that a person owns those sets of colors becuase he came up with it. I've been working on a little diagram. But I should check out the palette that Hayo posted first. Just to see if he's not infringing on someone elses palette ownership.

 
All platforming problems can be mostly solved here:

http://www.clickteam.com/mbfiles2/277308-engine.zip
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/psywakd/platform.gam
www.zephni.com

These are very excellent examples by other people and are very informative.
Image

I work at the speed of "maybe".

Coming Soon: Diary Of An Indie Developer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaF6H9MrgH8

Twitter:
http://twitter.com/xhunterko

Hayo

Stone Goose

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2nd April, 2010 at 22:45:25 -

You are using one of my blues in your avatar, I am gonna sue you.

 
www.hayovanreek.nl

Johnny Look

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2nd April, 2010 at 23:11:47 -

Xhunterko think of it that way.
You make a 16x16 tile.
Each pixel has a color. You didn't create the individual colors and pixels but you did use them to make something. That something was your work, and therefore belongs to you. A palette is the same thing, except now only the colors matter. Organizing a palette/set of colors takes work, usually more than making a 16x16 tile. So while you didn't create the colors, you did create the set. That's your set, your work and belongs to you. Even if someone created a palette exactly like yours then it's still your work. Most punk rock bands use the same exact chord progressions for their songs, yet you don't see them sueing each other do you ?

 
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Sketchy

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2nd April, 2010 at 23:21:36 -

Xhunterko:
No. That's not what I said at all. It's got absolutely nothing to do with ownership.
People are starting to get annoyed with you because you're not listening, or at least not understanding.
Stop trying to make this so philosophical/political, when really it's just a simple question of common sense and basic manners.

You can consider it a "service" if you prefer, rather than a "possession".
For example, Bob might build you a house. Bob doesn't (and never did) own it, because it's not on his land. However, it would be rude not to thank Bob for all his hard work, wouldn't it?
Similarly, if Bob creates a palette which you make use of, you should thank him, even though he does not "own" the palette. You are thanking him for his time and effort, not for the end result.

If you work hard and just happen to come up with a palette similar to one that someone else already created, then that's fine.
However, if you knowingly copy a palette, then you're getting someone else to do the work for you - if you have any manners at all, you will thank them.

Edited by Sketchy

 
n/a

-MacAdaM-

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3rd April, 2010 at 01:12:35 -


Originally Posted by Sketchy
Xhunterko:
No. That's not what I said at all. It's got absolutely nothing to do with ownership.
People are starting to get annoyed with you because you're not listening, or at least not understanding.
Stop trying to make this so philosophical/political, when really it's just a simple question of common sense and basic manners.

You can consider it a "service" if you prefer, rather than a "possession".
For example, Bob might build you a house. Bob doesn't (and never did) own it, because it's not on his land. However, it would be rude not to thank Bob for all his hard work, wouldn't it?
Similarly, if Bob creates a palette which you make use of, you should thank him, even though he does not "own" the palette. You are thanking him for his time and effort, not for the end result.

If you work hard and just happen to come up with a palette similar to one that someone else already created, then that's fine.
However, if you knowingly copy a palette, then you're getting someone else to do the work for you - if you have any manners at all, you will thank them.


Agreed!

 
Your just jealous that you're not as awesome as me.
(And my megaman avatar )

Silveraura

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3rd April, 2010 at 01:13:15 -

I don't think anyone here could have said it better themselves, Sketchy.

 
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