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Xhunterko



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1st April, 2010 at 05:44:27 -

I lost the discussion.

http://www.wayofthepixel.net/pixelation/index.php?topic=10053.0

Whats your point of view?

I say that no one should give any one person credit for any one set of colors used.

They maintain that you should.

Why or why not?

 
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Scott S

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1st April, 2010 at 06:16:58 -

I personally don't agree with you. Yes, people don't own any one colour but people do spend time and effort into optimising said palette and disregarding that work is just wrong.

 
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Silveraura

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1st April, 2010 at 11:09:24 -

I think people should be far more concerned about their artwork instead of the palette used to make it. I don't think the discussion here though is whether or not someone owns that color or that section of the color wheel, I think it's a matter of someone claiming ownership of a combination of highly specific colors. A single color is not a palette, nor is a gradation of a single hue a palette.

With that said, I'm going to have to say that I half-heartedly disagree with someone claiming ownership of a specific palette but I'm not entirely sure why. I think it just puts a bad taste in my mouth for someone to say "Give me credit - " for picking out these pre-existing colors and proving that they look nice together.

I'd be interested in seeing how this takes off here though, since most of us aren't pixel artists the outcome might be a little less bias.

 
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Hayo

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1st April, 2010 at 12:39:14 -

Making a proper palette takes ages, it took me 5 years to come up with one that is perfect for me. Just picking some pretty colours from other people is ok. Taking some dudes' personal palette is not, not without giving credit. It's the same as using an engine made by someone else and not giving credit.

Edited by Hayo

 
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Sketchy

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1st April, 2010 at 13:14:57 -

Legally speaking, it's possible to trademark even just a single color.

Case in point:
http://www.tate.org.uk/servlet/ViewWork?cgroupid=999999961&workid=8143&tabview=text&texttype=10

Personally, I don't think it should be possible to legally protect a palette (and certainly not a single color), but I do think you are morally obliged to give credit.

Edited by Sketchy

 
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Xgoff



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2nd April, 2010 at 05:01:28 -

if you can own a palette then somebody "owns" the palette of 4 colors: 255,0,0 0,255,0 0,0,255 and 0,0,0 that i see pixel art made with every once in a while without credit

related to that, if you "own" a palette you technically "own" any subset of those colors which may well be individual colors

i don't get the point of it

ip is such a shitty thing nowadays that you can't make anything without having to potentially credit somebody you don't even know for each little part of it. i actually kind of find it sad that someone may well sit at their computer with an eyedropper tool and a notepad to catch palette "thieves". it's about as dumb as claiming ownership over a one-line hello world program

i mean if someone did spend the time to put a palette together and you used that palette from that person, you should give them some credit. but actually demanding credit for a tiny set of colors (not made with the intention of representing a standalone piece of art in themselves) is pretty stupid

 
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Xhunterko



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2nd April, 2010 at 05:41:21 -

@Hayo and Xgoff: So, your basically saying that even though that they don't own those colors I still have to give them credit? Your both basically on the line of this argument:

I SPENT OVER x/15+ HOURS MAKING THOSE SPECIFIC COLORS!!!##@#!!! HOW DARE YOU JUST USE THEM WILLY NILLY!!!!! THOSE ARE MY COLORS!!! YOU CAN"T USE THEM FOR ANYTHING ELSE UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ME ME ME PART CREDIT!!!!! THOSE ARE MINE, MINE, I TELL YOU!!!!! MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!!!!!11111!!!

Which was basically theirs. No one owns one, color, or a set of colors. And to demand the part credit of something for any number of colors to me is just selfish in it's own right.

 
All platforming problems can be mostly solved here:

http://www.clickteam.com/mbfiles2/277308-engine.zip
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/psywakd/platform.gam
www.zephni.com

These are very excellent examples by other people and are very informative.
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Xgoff



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2nd April, 2010 at 05:52:34 -


Originally Posted by Xhunterko
@Hayo and Xgoff: So, your basically saying that even though that they don't own those colors I still have to give them credit? Your both basically on the line of this argument:

I SPENT OVER x/15+ HOURS MAKING THOSE SPECIFIC COLORS!!!##@#!!! HOW DARE YOU JUST USE THEM WILLY NILLY!!!!! THOSE ARE MY COLORS!!! YOU CAN"T USE THEM FOR ANYTHING ELSE UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ME ME ME PART CREDIT!!!!! THOSE ARE MINE, MINE, I TELL YOU!!!!! MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!!!!!11111!!!

Which was basically theirs. No one owns one, color, or a set of colors. And to demand the part credit of something for any number of colors to me is just selfish in it's own right.


no, i'm saying you should think about a little mention it IF someone made a palette and you used that palette with the knowledge that person made it, but by no means should you be required or forced to. it would be pretty bad for someone to call you out because you "stole" a palette

one of the arguments of the side you mentioned is that "well, you own the EXACT colors in the palette". but there's nothing stopping me from taking a palette somebody else made, and changing all the rgb values by +-1 or 2. it's visually indistinguishable but since these are a different set of EXACT colors i apparently now "own" this palette. what took some guy 5 hours to set up took me 2 minutes to change, but it's not "his" palette because the colors are slightly off

in fact i'm more on your side than anything (but still close to the middle), but this doesn't really change the fact this is a huge gray area more than anything since you'd start having to draw arbitrary lines on what can and can't be considered credit-worthy

people should care less about the palette and more about the art being made with it

 
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Xhunterko



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2nd April, 2010 at 06:00:08 -

"people should care less about the palette and more about the art being made with it"

That's the argument that I tried to make as well. But oh no, they don't see it that way. It's someone owns a set of colors, and people MUST give credit no matter regardless of what's created with it. I was getting afraid that I would be disciplined or banned, since I wouldn't agree to the assumption that that person had part credit for the palette they used for anything made with it ad on infinitum. I started the same discussion on a revision3 forum. Lets see how far that gets me.

 
All platforming problems can be mostly solved here:

http://www.clickteam.com/mbfiles2/277308-engine.zip
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/psywakd/platform.gam
www.zephni.com

These are very excellent examples by other people and are very informative.
Image

I work at the speed of "maybe".

Coming Soon: Diary Of An Indie Developer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaF6H9MrgH8

Twitter:
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Xgoff



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2nd April, 2010 at 06:24:17 -


Originally Posted by Xhunterko
"people should care less about the palette and more about the art being made with it"

That's the argument that I tried to make as well. But oh no, they don't see it that way. It's someone owns a set of colors, and people MUST give credit no matter regardless of what's created with it. I was getting afraid that I would be disciplined or banned, since I wouldn't agree to the assumption that that person had part credit for the palette they used for anything made with it ad on infinitum. I started the same discussion on a revision3 forum. Lets see how far that gets me.


the problem is, when you get into personal works, a lot of people become hugely attached to them, no matter what they are

it's one thing to claim ownership for full-blown artistic work, but for fundamental things like palettes it's really better in the end to just let it go

 
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Silveraura

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2nd April, 2010 at 10:49:34 -

I do recall talking about how some famous artists do have specific palettes in my color theory class. I did not know this prior, so I guess what it should come down to is, if you never knew that your palette was used by someone else, then by all means, to what obligation do you honestly have, to need to look it up to make sure you give appropriate credit. However if you directly mimic another artists palette, then as Sketchy said, I do believe morally that you should be owe the original author some credit. Do I think you should be allowed to ban people from using your colors? Absolutely not, but I do think you should ethically need to give credit where credit is due if you're fully aware of what you're doing. Really, it's only fair.

 
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Hayo

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2nd April, 2010 at 12:55:19 -


Originally Posted by Xhunterko
@Hayo and Xgoff: So, your basically saying that even though that they don't own those colors I still have to give them credit? Your both basically on the line of this argument:

I SPENT OVER x/15+ HOURS MAKING THOSE SPECIFIC COLORS!!!##@#!!! HOW DARE YOU JUST USE THEM WILLY NILLY!!!!! THOSE ARE MY COLORS!!! YOU CAN"T USE THEM FOR ANYTHING ELSE UNLESS YOU GIVE ME ME ME ME PART CREDIT!!!!! THOSE ARE MINE, MINE, I TELL YOU!!!!! MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!!!!!11111!!!

Which was basically theirs. No one owns one, color, or a set of colors. And to demand the part credit of something for any number of colors to me is just selfish in it's own right.




Hey now, that's an odd way to put it dude, and I don't appreciate it.

I said making a good palette is work, just like making a piece of code or good graphics is work. I don't own the events and values in my code and I don't own the pixels in my graphics. I don't own the colours in my palette. But it took effort to make it and that makes using it without giving credit not cool. I don't even see how there can be a discussion about it. In my case I would be ok with people using my palette, if they just ask.

If you want to start discussions so badly I would advise you to work on your way of reasoning a bit and stop exaggerating other peoples' points and don't pull them out on context. This is very likely to just piss a bunch of people off and that way you will never get close to what you want. Unless pissing people off is what you want

 
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2nd April, 2010 at 14:50:13 -


Originally Posted by Hayo
...I would advise you to work on your way of reasoning a bit and stop exaggerating other peoples' points and don't pull them out on context. This is very likely to just piss a bunch of people off and that way you will never get close to what you want. Unless pissing people off is what you want



Well said Hayo.

I don't really know what to think about palettes. My first reaction was "Of course you can't own a set of colours, that's stupid". But after reading some of your points I see some interesting arguments. I am a bit biased because I'm not an artist but I think it's pretty hard to come up with a good analogy of what using a palette means. I wouldn't compare it with using the engine from a game because I don't think that's similar at all.

However, I still don't think you can claim a palette, or should have to give credit for using someone else's palette.

 
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Xhunterko



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2nd April, 2010 at 15:27:21 -

"I would advise you to work on your way of reasoning a bit and stop exaggerating other peoples' points and don't pull them out on context."

Maybe not in your case. But if you read any of that forum post, I'd say I was hardly exaggerating.

"Unless pissing people off is what you want"

Absolutely not. I was just trying to argue the valid point. Nobody owns a set of colors. No matter how it is that a person came about them.

"Really, it's only fair."

Contradictory. They said, no, I don't own a single color. But you have to give credit for MY group of colors. Again. Who is being wrong here?

 
All platforming problems can be mostly solved here:

http://www.clickteam.com/mbfiles2/277308-engine.zip
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/psywakd/platform.gam
www.zephni.com

These are very excellent examples by other people and are very informative.
Image

I work at the speed of "maybe".

Coming Soon: Diary Of An Indie Developer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaF6H9MrgH8

Twitter:
http://twitter.com/xhunterko

Hayo

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2nd April, 2010 at 15:33:02 -

So, what if you coded an engine, and I take it and use it in my game and I don't credit you. Would you like it?

Or take a piece of music, that's a bunch of notes. Nobody owns the notes. Does that make it ok to rip it from people?

Edited by Hayo

 
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