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Ricky

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15th December, 2008 at 14:37:53 -



I'm wrong. I will still always say legos when referring to multiple bricks.

Edited by Ricky

 
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markno2



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15th December, 2008 at 15:23:34 -

I just want to brick the jerk in the face when they say "Click isn't a real programming language. Your games are worthless." etc... The main reason being, because they're usually a spastic that hasn't made more than a random number generator in C++ or whatever, and it took them two months to do. I'll be copying and pasting Pixelthief's reasoning from today, though. It's pretty good. 8D

 
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15th December, 2008 at 16:05:41 -

I don't see what the huge deal is. It might take somebody just as long to learn C++ and make something good with it as it would for somebody to make a good game with MMF2.

I know Visual Basic 6 pretty well and have made lots of games with it in the past. That being said I haven't made a single one with it since I got MMF1.5 (and later MMF2). There are just too many awesome things MMF lets you do that would be super difficult with VB6. The only thing offhand I know VB6 has over MMF is its ability to have object arrays, and even then I've only ever really needed them for MMF once.

 
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15th December, 2008 at 16:21:07 -

Well, I didn't read all that, but I did catch the little Lego thing. Technically, it's LEGO bricks, but I've heard LEGO themselves call them "legos" in magazines and ads.

Funny thing-- I thought about bringing up programming legos as well...

 

  		
  		

Pixelthief

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15th December, 2008 at 18:34:06 -


Originally Posted by Del Duio
The only thing offhand I know VB6 has over MMF is its ability to have object arrays, and even then I've only ever really needed them for MMF once.



Well most limitations in MMF can be worked around, so the *real* limitation of MMF is the giant overhead for runtime; each 'event' in the event editor might take up 10000x as much processing power as a line of text in C++, and fast loops run absurdly inefficiently. So as long as you stay simple, you can create things in MMF2 just as well as any other language, but more complicated projects run sloooooooooow.

 
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Del Duio

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15th December, 2008 at 18:58:00 -

I just make my MMF games like I did with my VB6 games: The best way I know how, regardless of whether it's the "right way" or not. Game making's supposed to be fun and half of my fun comes from stuff most normal people would never think is like debugging and code / event line sorting and testing, coming up with a good weapon vs. armor damage forumla and blah blah blah. When you figure out how to do something you've seen in your mind's eye for awhile it's a great feeling, regardless if the path there was accidental. I'm sure there are much more efficient ways of getting the job done but as long as it all looks and works like what you've imagined it doesn't matter too much. My 9th grade computer teacher would certainly disagree but who's laughing now? HA HA HA HA HA HA! (Extra "HA"s for intended creepy feeling effect.)

MMF takes so much time out of the equation of game-making for me now which is another great reason why I use it. I don't have all the free time like I used to for doing this type of thing and I can't make 4-5 finished games a year anymore as an old dude.

 
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Eternal Man [EE]

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15th December, 2008 at 19:12:27 -

I just have to comment on the Lego. Im from Sweden, Lego is from Denmark, Denmark is a neighbouring country to Sweden, so my word is LAW.
In Sweden we call them;

One "Legokloss" (or more commonly Legobit), which translates into one "Lego brick".
Several "Legos" as you say is in fact "several Lego bricks", "flera Legobitar".

In danish you would say "Lego klods" (or perhaps "Lego klodse"), in plural you would say several "Lego klodser".

To summarise.
You are all wrong.
You can't say "a Lego" or "several Legos" OR "several Lego".



 
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Pixelthief

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15th December, 2008 at 19:14:10 -

ditto the old dude bit. Programming in MMF is almost most fun simply because all the standard libraries and engines DON'T exist, and every time I want to program something new I have to do something nobodies done before and learn as I go. Its kind of like puzzle solving, whereas spamming out C++ code makes me feel like a robot. So much of MMF2's lore is just mysticism. Plus that bit where it cuts out 90% of the time. That 'rocks me socks'

 
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Eternal Man [EE]

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15th December, 2008 at 19:16:10 -

Ruined my edit!

And yes, you should in fact write it out as LEGO not Lego. But who does that anyway?

 
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15th December, 2008 at 20:28:31 -

In America Lego has become a household term more than a company name. Kinda like kleenex and band-aid. We don't say, "Hand me the band-aid adhesive bandages." Some people even call cheapy off-brands like Mega Bloks (And yes, they are cheapy compared to Legos. ) "legos". And we call all sorts of soda, "coke". (My Grandma calls all video games, "nintendos." )

 

  		
  		

Dr. James MD

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15th December, 2008 at 21:04:52 -

I never understood why they called it Band-Aid instead of bandage. Guess I just don't let companies command how I speak.

 
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AndyUK

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15th December, 2008 at 22:03:45 -

Yeah Dr. James, i was going to say it's just an example of a product dominating a market so much the name replaces the conventional name.

Also how did you guys go so off topic? lolz. Thats ok though.

 
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Ricky

loves Left For Dead 2

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15th December, 2008 at 22:35:49 -

I do it with a lot of things. I didn't say I'm playing video games when I was little, I said I'm playing Nintendo.

 
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Cecilectomy

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16th December, 2008 at 00:02:57 -



ditto the old dude bit. Programming in MMF is almost most fun simply because all the standard libraries and engines DON'T exist, and every time I want to program something new I have to do something nobodies done before and learn as I go. Its kind of like puzzle solving, whereas spamming out C++ code makes me feel like a robot. So much of MMF2's lore is just mysticism. Plus that bit where it cuts out 90% of the time. That 'rocks me socks'



i would consider widgets and snippets, mmf's engines and all the extensions, its libraries. when you cant do something in mmf you find the appropriate extension, or code one yourself if it doesn't exist. the same goes for c++ with libraries and SDKs, you add the appropriate library headers and .lib files to a project that allow you to use certain classes, structs, functions, devices. why you would EVER feel like a robot using c++ but not mmf is beyond me. whenever i take a code snippet from a forum or web page i usually modify and improve it so much that it becomes MY code. i've never taken anything and just spammed it into my code. not only does it usually not work but then i DO feel like a robot.

as for the 90% less development time, while you can probably make a game in a couple hours with mmf, most of them are crap (because they were made in a couple hours), and the ones that are truly worth playing were and are taking months even YEARS to create.

youre a great programmer, what id consider one of the best here at tdc. but doing something in c++ that takes me a couple weeks gives me a much greater sense of accomplishment. mmf feels like a cheat.

mmf gives non-programmers a way let out their ideas with ease. i hear this "it cuts down the development time 90%" and i cant help but think, a noob with mmf either takes weeks months or years to create a semi decent to great game, or makes a crap game in a couple hours. a pro can make a decent game in days. a good game in weeks. a great game in a month or two. and an awesome game in around a year or more. there are always the genious exceptions but it's true for the most part. its all relative. i made my latest game # puzzle in mmf in less than a day. and its decent. but i couldve taken the same or a lttle bit more time to make it in c++, it wouldve been smaller, faster, and have much more content. it all depends on your knowledge. if you KNOW mmf but are only ok at c++ then yes itll take forever to make a game with c++ that would take you 90% less time in mmf. but for those that are experienced in both, no there is not much of a development time difference. as the complexity of the game goes up so does the difference in development time. but the difference is relative to your skill at either medium.

almost all of my stuff on tdc is incomplete but 2 of them are c++ and BASIC. the BASIC game is similar to my #puzzle game but took me all but an hour to code. and my #puzzle game while graphically superior with a bit more content took me almost 24 hours. both are practically the same game at their core, a tile puzzle game. and my c++ isometric engine (which im currently about to recode and optimize for a game) took me about a week to get it to where it is, yet my attempt to convert it to mmf took a month in which i had to scrap the idea because it was simply too slow to handle massive maps without using mmf iso grid object and functionality. (although if i use some of your methods with the overlay object and looping which allowed for fast raycasting, i could probably get it running decently).

Edited by Cecilectomy

 
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