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AndyUK

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14th December, 2008 at 15:06:05 -

Just a thought I had.
Ive noticed a few comments over the years encouraging people to ditch MMF2 and learn a 'real programming language'. Sometimes to answer a pretty basic problem.

I don't understand what part of MMF isn't real.

Don't a lot of commercial games use tools to speed up development? Companies license engines and middleware and such. What if i made my own tools in C++? does that make the game 'not made with a real programming language'.

What do you guys think?

Edited by AndyUK

 
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alastair john jack

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14th December, 2008 at 15:10:01 -

MMF is not a programming language.
It's a tool to make things with.



Edited by alastair john jack

 
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14th December, 2008 at 15:19:40 -

yop, i think it's not a programming language. but it does NOT want to be a programming language.

imho MMF is about game creating. you have to know a lot of things, for example about programming too to make a good engine, or the tecnical part of the game strong, but this is all about the ideas. I mean, it's about what you can do. and i dont mean the programming part of this thing. i mean the graphichs, musics, and ideas. its about the GAME. about the GAMEPLAY. about the FUN.

and i know a lot of ppl too, who just contemn MMF because "it's not a programming language". but none of them made any game complete game yet ;>

 
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Don Luciano

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14th December, 2008 at 15:27:35 -

I think it is in a way...
Since it's still a lot of coding involved.
Rpg makers would be an example of not a programming language.

mmf2 is like a programming language without so much typing involved.
its a programming fizzle

 
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14th December, 2008 at 15:35:28 -

TBH I don't think I'd want to try and learn a programming language, the click products are designed to allow proffesional-quality games (depending on how good you are) with ease. I don't think they're recognised enough, really.

 
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14th December, 2008 at 15:57:07 -

You realise the power of MMF when you sit back and look at various Super NES games etc and realise that you can infact recreate pretty much all of them flawlessly in MMF.

 
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Johnny Look

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14th December, 2008 at 16:37:29 -

MMF isn't a programming language, that's a fact.
It doesn't involve any coding either, as most coding is already done all you have to do is give the program instructions (events) to activate one or more actions that were already embedded within MMF and that will be displayed in MMF's engine.
Some tools like Blitz3D and DarkBasic actually involve coding, but they aren't really a programming language either, they are a pack with a IDE, a 3D engine and a programming language made for use with the tool (which btw is a variation of the already existing basic language).

Don't get me wrong, MMF is a great tool, you can do amazing games with it, way faster and easier that you would with a actual programming language like C++, the only con is that you're stuck with the limitations of the tool.

 
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Knudde (Shab)

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14th December, 2008 at 17:09:26 -


Originally Posted by Johnny Look
MMF isn't a programming language, that's a fact.
It doesn't involve any coding either, as most coding is already done all you have to do is give the program instructions (events) to activate one or more actions that were already embedded within MMF and that will be displayed in MMF's engine.
Some tools like Blitz3D and DarkBasic actually involve coding, but they aren't really a programming language either, they are a pack with a IDE, a 3D engine and a programming language made for use with the tool (which btw is a variation of the already existing basic language).

Don't get me wrong, MMF is a great tool, you can do amazing games with it, way faster and easier that you would with a actual programming language like C++, the only con is that you're stuck with the limitations of the tool.



I agree it's not a programming language but I STRONGLY disagree that it's not coding. Scripting is coding and all we are doing is building scripts with a RAD interface (Rapid App Development). If/Then, order of operations, and other basic programming theories all still apply while making a klik game.

 
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Candy Cane
14th December, 2008 at 18:27:27 -

"the only con is that you're stuck with the limitations of the tool."

And which game have you made where that limit is reached?


 
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14th December, 2008 at 18:44:58 -

MMF is not a language per se, but it is just as good a tool to make games with as any. People who may diss MMF in favor of "real" game development languages are just insecure and want to look cool. Granted, programming languages can allow for a lot of stuff that MMF alone can't do, and MMF isn't the best tool in most cases for full-scale games for a number of reasons that I don't need to go into. They both have their pros and cons.

Oh, and I agree that it is coding. There's no law that says coding has to be in written words. Cause and event, by definition, fits. It's just a graphical representation rather than a written one.

 

  		
  		

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14th December, 2008 at 19:19:12 -

Multimedia Fusion 2 is a tool designed with the initial idea in mind of getting rid of the process involving writing lines of code. This process was replaced with an almost identical (in terms of functionality) event editor, coupled with the event list editor. The addition of the rest of the tools just bridged the gap between multiple applications for multiple tasks such as image editing, level designing, storyboard editing, so on and so forth.

So to consider Multimedia Fusion 2 any less of a fantastic tool that gets the job done better then I've seen A LOT of program languages out there, is selling the program short on so many heart breaking levels.

Most people who program games using "REAL" programing, either slave over making their own engines, and tools, which take years to develop, or they go out and buy other peoples engines and development tools, which for combined price, is almost 5x as much as MMF2, for half the quality. Really... it makes no sense.

Multimedia Fusion 2 is a tool, and classified as such, makes it no different then any other development tool out there. It's not glitchy, it's not faulty, it's not extremely limited in it's functionality. It's even growing on a month to month basis. The people making these foolish claims about "real" programing, are whining because they can't get MMF2 to do what they want it to do, largely because they sell the software short, rather then figure out that it's their own lack of logic that's giving them issues. In which case, I say... good luck with "real" programing.

I can't wait to see the day when I hear someone say "C++ has a glitch. That's the only reason I can't do this."

 
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14th December, 2008 at 19:32:59 -

i wouldnt call it a language. the only actual coding you'll ever really do unless you write your own shaders for HWA or extensions is writing formulas or expressions into your game.

programming in a real language is a lot more involved and time consuming, yet a lot more flexible. ive spent the last few days writing a multi-client tcp/ip server skeleton in c++ using winsock. almost done and then i'm gonna work on making a udp/ip server.

 
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14th December, 2008 at 19:35:26 -

Well put Brandon. MMF is a fantastic tool that, in my experience, is the best of all non-language tools out there. I looked and looked for other game development tools for years after I got TGF, and then I realized, "O_o What the heck? I love TGF! It's the best! Why am I still looking?" And stopped there. I've tried all sorts of tools, and Clickteam's is by far the best setup, allowing you to make games that are original and have custom looks and engines without being hard to make, and don't feel cookie-cutter like alot of GM and AGS games do. And, MMF is simpler but just as powerful! They have the formula down to a science for the most part.

In the first three quarters of Sim and Game development at college, I'll be using Torque, which isn't entirely a language programming tool! Sure, it uses scripts, but it's very similar to MMF in what it tries to accomplish. I only wish we could use MMF instead, since I already know my way around the program so well.

 

  		
  		

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14th December, 2008 at 19:40:43 -

" I can't wait to see the day when I hear someone say "C++ has a glitch. That's the only reason I can't do this." "

c++ does have glitches, or rather "bugs". but for the most part theres 100 other ways to do the same thing that was giving you problems before.

standard c++ varies in implementation from compiler to compiler and from system to system (unix mac linux windows) so you may do the same thing in a different manner over different platforms.

 
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14th December, 2008 at 20:31:15 -

MMF2 is more like a scripting language than a programming language. That doesn't make it any less awesome though.

 
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