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~Zigzag~



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31st May, 2008 at 23:56:34 -


Originally Posted by AS Filipowski

Can you name any click games that got published? I don't mean a demo CD... a full game that costs more then £10.


No, because Flash games are minigames and NEED to be remade by large companies if they want to be successful. Click games are already complete and therefore cannot be leapt upon by companies to make clones of. The reason these games become so famous through these remakes is because Flash DOESN'T allow for them to be made any good in the first place.

 
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AS Filipowski



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1st June, 2008 at 03:45:40 -

I'm sorry but the "all flash creations are minigames" statements are totally incorrect. Do you honestly think that no one has done a 50 hour RPG in Flash? I know I've done a couple of RPGs, maybe not of that length, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

"i honestly prefer click games for a simple reason: they FEEL like games. they are REAL games."

I'm sorry but thats just prejudice. There's tons of Flash games with multiple keys, save files, online scoreboards, online play...

"flash is just crap you play in your browser to waste your time at work."

Um, that's the games industry in general. I'm sure most click games are as much of a waste of time as Flash games or any other console game for that matter.

"no flash game really runs in full screen."

Thank god for that. Full Screen Mode is a plague on humanity. For starters it means you can't use MSN messenger at the same time. Seriously, Full Screen Mode is just a concession for people with crappy computers that can't do more then 2 things at a time.

"you dont have to be a programmer while if you want to pull of something easy in flash and you dont have much experience yet it will be fucking complicated like hell and take ages to do"

I agree. At first, Macromedia Flash can seem a bit difficult to grasp at first. But like any program language, once you spend some time with it you can do a lot more.
Start simple, and use the classic adventure books style where you click buttons to "go to part 1/ go to part 3"... then move on to simple engines such as a basic platformer, RPG etc... then move on to more advanced techniques like line drawing and save files...

I can understand your bias with click games, but you have to face facts. Macromedia Flash is popular for a reason, not just for "minigames". Trust me, for every big click game, there's a big flash game somewhere... you just have to look for them.


 
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AS Filipowski



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1st June, 2008 at 03:47:18 -

By the way, I wouldn't argue that most Flash games are "minigames", most Click games are sidescrolling platform games! Wow, how original!!!

Yes, I'm aware I'm a bit biased... but I do respect click products and what they represent. They are a key building block for any avid game makers anywhere. Much better then "Game Maker".

I can't think of any better tool then click tools to learn how to make a game.

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1st June, 2008 at 05:12:45 -


Originally Posted by AS Filipowski

"no flash game really runs in full screen."

Thank god for that. Full Screen Mode is a plague on humanity. For starters it means you can't use MSN messenger at the same time. Seriously, Full Screen Mode is just a concession for people with crappy computers that can't do more then 2 things at a time.



I found this to stand out the most.

Why would you want to play a game and use MSN Messenger at the same time? When I play games I don't want to chat to people. I don't have my laptop wired up to my TV with PiP mode so I can play Mario Galaxy and hold a conversation online. I play games for the immersive experience they can produce, because of the interactive nature I find them much more compelling than being entertained by linear media. Using other apps reduce that experience, if you get a buzz from films then it'll be equal to having some gobby twunt sat behind talking throughout the film.
Sat back with my 360 controller playing games on a nice, large monitor with nice, large speakers fullscreen is pretty much the only way I bother playing most games. 2D or 3D.

And thanks for calling my various computers (including an 8 core workstation system) "crappy".

But I studied Flash for years. I made navigation systems for a gallery, cartoons, games, presentations and websites using Flash. It's great for a lot of things but games isn't one of them, it's more a byproduct.

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1st June, 2008 at 05:55:35 -

This doesn't have anything to do with anything, but at least cactus knows how to create good games with Game Maker.

 
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1st June, 2008 at 09:32:59 -

"Thank god for that. Full Screen Mode is a plague on humanity"

oh YES of course it is thats why all REAL games (stuff you buy in stores) run in FULL SCREEN. its a FULL Game that wants your full attention and you give it your full attention so thats why its full screen just like a movie. if you chat and listen to music and play a game at the same time the game sucks because you dont pay much attention to it and its nothing but a lousy time waster and THATS why click games (and other FULL games) run full screen.

ADOBE Flash is popular because: 1) Clickteam doesnt have ANY marketing while Adobe forces their products down onto anybody's throat
2) Flash makes dynamic websites while MMF cant do that (well it can but vitalize sucks)
3) Flash is able to keep the file size DOWN a lot because of the fact its vector and because you use instances so you can create dynamic web content that loads very easily
4) The majority of games made in MMF are like SNES/NES/Mega Drive...whatever and hardly peopel care about that anymore but indy game makers and retro lovers while Flash is still all new and shiny
5) BIGGEST selling point: ANYBODY can run Flash. Doesn't matter what OS you have and it's all browser based so people dont even have to download crap.

 
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1st June, 2008 at 09:47:39 -

Fullscreen is good as long:
-It's not forced and not started without a warning.
-Your game resolution is ABOVE 640*480.

 
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2nd June, 2008 at 02:30:11 -

OH YES LET'S JUST IGNORE MY POINTS TWICE SHALL WE?

Why are you even asking us? You obviously love flash so much so why don't you just accept that we don't like it?

I don't care if one or two people have made decent games in flash, good on them. It doesn't make it a good tool for making games! The tool doesn't make the product, the producer does. If I made a epic 50 hour RPG in flash, I would think to myself "Why the hell did I use flash?" - it's not that it's impossible but that it's silly.

Also, a game deserves your full attention really - an option is common courtesy of course but alt+tab to MSN if it's that much of an issue. Also last I checks Flash Player 9 supports fullscreen - at least be informed about your argument.

"By the way, I wouldn't argue that most Flash games are "minigames", most Click games are sidescrolling platform games! Wow, how original!!!"

Do you even think before posting - seriously? A good platformer requires a lot more work than a mini-game and it's a load more fun. The reason we make platformers is because they're good not because it's all MMF is capable of.

""flash is just crap you play in your browser to waste your time at work."

Um, that's the games industry in general. I'm sure most click games are as much of a waste of time as Flash games or any other console game for that matter. "

That's sad, I don't play games to "waste my time" I play them because I like games - I like their immersion and I like that they let people express themselves.

I'll say it once more because so far you seem to have missed it every time - IF YOU LIKE FLASH, I DON'T CARE. DON'T FORCE YOUR OPINION ON US WHEN YOU ASK US FOR OURS.

 
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~Zigzag~



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2nd June, 2008 at 02:34:00 -


Originally Posted by »Ben«
OH YES LET'S JUST IGNORE MY POINTS TWICE SHALL WE?

Why are you even asking us? You obviously love flash so much so why don't you just accept that we don't like it?
...

I'll say it once more because so far you seem to have missed it every time - IF YOU LIKE FLASH, I DON'T CARE. DON'T FORCE YOUR OPINION ON US WHEN YOU ASK US FOR OURS.



LOL

also: AGREE

 
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2nd June, 2008 at 03:00:37 -

good for you. but i dont care. c++ ftw.

 
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2nd June, 2008 at 03:02:16 -

Wow Ben, that was pretty hardcore for you

But really. Can someone link me to a 4-6 hour long game made in Flash with their own art/soundtrack and support for USB controllers?

 
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2nd June, 2008 at 09:41:16 -

Well, I'm sorry, but you're just a big goober that needs to face facts. Flash is not as... awesome (for lack of a better word) as Click products. And that's not bias. I have honestly not enjoyed any game in flash longer than thirty seconds, except maybe Line Rider, and most flash games could easily be done in MMF. Your arguments just don't work. Flash is for cartoons and ads. Not games. End of discussion. Why are you even here? Oh, and just because a game lasts a long time doesn't mean it's good. You keep saying there are plenty of "epic" flash games, but who gives three ounces of poo? I mean, come on.

 

  		
  		

AS Filipowski



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2nd June, 2008 at 12:31:43 -

The worst thing about full-screen in click games is that not only is it mandatory for quite a few games, but it does a horrible kind of stretch thing that makes the graphics look awful.

The whole thing about working with a 16x16 tile is to make it look nice from afar... not to scale it up so that it takes up half of the entire screen.

"I don't care if one or two people have made decent games in flash, good on them. It doesn't make it a good tool for making games!"
Except, that you actually learn programming skills, most of the code and algorithms are similar to C++ and any other top programming language.

"A good platformer requires a lot more work than a mini-game and it's a load more fun."
Not that much work. Arguably the platform engine is the hardest thing to do, and that's one of the easiest gametypes to be honest.

I was here to listen to your thoughts, and wonder why you still made games using click products. I never came to start a war, I was just stating my opinion.

Flash games are better suited to vector graphics and Click games are somewhat geared towards sprites, but both tools are quite useful for programmers.

 
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2nd June, 2008 at 12:49:07 -

"and wonder why you still made games using click products" Well, we've said why. You apparently didn't listen to our thoughts-- We put them out, you just rebuffed them. There really was no point. But, welcome back anyway! Stick around and try some click stuff again! Anybody besides me thinking the word, "lock"?

 

  		
  		

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2nd June, 2008 at 12:58:13 -


Originally Posted by AS Filipowski
The worst thing about full-screen in click games is that not only is it mandatory for quite a few games, but it does a horrible kind of stretch thing that makes the graphics look awful.

The whole thing about working with a 16x16 tile is to make it look nice from afar... not to scale it up so that it takes up half of the entire screen.




Full Screen click games look really nice on my computer. My GPU doesn't understand 320x240 so it upscales it to 640x480 and filters the image (making everything look really nice and smooth).

 
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