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AS Filipowski



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28th May, 2008 at 16:04:04 -

I used to make games in click, but by using Flash it opened up a massive world full of possibilities. The interface in MMF2 is a real pain, and theres too many problems with the actual program itself for it to be of any use.

Macromedia Flash is very simple, especially when it comes to drawing new material and using those as character or objects. And of course, you're 99.9% confident that someone else can play it.

Any downsides to Flash? Any advantages to Click Products? I'd like to know what you guys think.

Again, sorry for being away. I wonder if any of my old chums will post.

 
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Dr. James MD

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28th May, 2008 at 16:57:38 -

I spent a few years learning Flash and I hate the thing. I dunno, theres something about how the graphics are rendered. It doesn't seem pixel perfect, it seems quite clumsy. Something just didn't smell right with Flash.

 
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28th May, 2008 at 17:46:55 -

I thought the same, doesn't feel solid at all.

But I'm biased towards Click products

 
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29th May, 2008 at 08:43:49 -

Actionscript itself isn't a bad programming language, but I just find Flash's interface to be needlessly ass-backwards. For example, having to move things across the stage rather than move a camera across the stage is an omission that immediately turned me off to it. I also don't care for how much work it takes to manage nested animations compared to MMF, or how you have to jump through fire to make sound work right.

 
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29th May, 2008 at 09:34:11 -

Not even to mention how much better MMF's object selection is. We had to make a game in Flash for school, it was painful to do - but then it was never made for game creation.

 
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29th May, 2008 at 10:02:10 -

I don't like the thought of coding so I stay away from Flash because of Action Script, but I gotta say that I love the interface in MMF2. I used TGF for years and hated the thought of learning where everything was in MMF2 but I found that it wasn't scary at all and it's much more efficient than TGF was. I didn't understand the frames(?) in Flash at all. Made it look like a real challenge to make simple things. Never used it properly though so I can't really say.

 
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29th May, 2008 at 19:21:45 -

Flash games are always wimpy and pathetic. It isn't ever pixel perfect, as was said, and the programming interface is not quite so... I dunno. The art style in flash games is better for some stuff, but I think as a game development platform it stinks pretty hard. Even on slower computers click games run ok, versus jumpy flash, and the way click products tie everything together smoothly seems to lend itsself more to my liking. Plus, I've always been a fan of .exe's and downloading games. .swf's just don't quite cut it.

 

  		
  		

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29th May, 2008 at 20:43:43 -

Lol, I guess it depends on your style. I like some Flash games, but not most. Same goes for klik games. I think MMF2 is good for just about anything I try to do. It offers me a great deal of control; it's just that it doesn't have enough controls or isn't as easy to animate as Flash.

 
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LIJI

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30th May, 2008 at 09:17:21 -

Flash games suck because Flash is for CARTOONS AND SIMPLE WEB APPLICATIONS not games.
People somewhy started using it for games so Adobe/Macromedia started "supporting" it with more game "features"
It's like compare a game made with PowerPoint with one made with MMF2. The MMF2 game will obviously be better than the PP one not matter how suckish it is, because PowerPoint is for presentations not games, although it is possible to make simple games with it.
Even if someone manages to make a good Flash game, it would have been much easier to make it with a software that was made for that propose, like MMF2, C++ with Graphical Libraries etc, and the result will probably be better by Graphics (Raster (non-vector) graphics look blurry and sometimes JPG-ish on Flash) and resource usage (Flash's rendering engine is very, VERY slow and can not make use of HWA).

I'm not saying that Flash sucks. Personally I use Flash and it's quite good for the usages it was originally meant for - creating cartoons and editing short movies.

 
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Dr. James MD

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30th May, 2008 at 10:46:44 -


Originally Posted by LIJI [My cookie pwnz your cake]
Flash games suck because Flash is for CARTOONS AND SIMPLE WEB APPLICATIONS not games.



One of my tutors friends had this thought too. So he went out and made some kind of Age of Empires like game using Flash. He gave us all a CD of the game (500mb!) but I can't find mine Just saying it's possible to make big games. Just seems to me that people don't spend years working on Flash games like big mofo click games.

 
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30th May, 2008 at 11:03:47 -

I think it's a question of abilities and talent, rather than just stating that it's strictly for Cartoons and web apps. It's like saying MMF is strictly for games and applications, when it can also actually be used to make pixel art/experimental "videos" etc. Some people can manipulate flash very well indeed, and make some great games with it.

 
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LIJI

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30th May, 2008 at 11:10:12 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
I think it's a question of abilities and talent, rather than just stating that it's strictly for Cartoons and web apps. It's like saying MMF is strictly for games and applications, when it can also actually be used to make pixel art/experimental "videos" etc. Some people can manipulate flash very well indeed, and make some great games with it.


Exactly.
You can make "pixel art/experimental 'videos'" in MMF2, however it would be faster, easier, and probably better, if you used a program that was meant for that instead.
In the same way you can make good Flash games, but it would be faster, easier, and probably better if you used a program that was meant for that instead.
That Age of Empires game could have been done faster and better if that friend of yours used the right program to create it, for example.

 
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AS Filipowski



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31st May, 2008 at 03:54:58 -

I think a few of you are missing the point. For the guy who said that in Flash games you have to move the stage around, not the camera... That's the way the games industry works. It's a complete illusion that moving the camera is the right way. Notice how it always lags when you move the camera in TGF/MMF2? That's because its moving THE ENTIRE WORLD. Which is what every good programming language does! Heck I think you could even create your own camera function in flash the same way.

And for those who says Flash isnt meant for games, I mention the following;
Bowmaster Prelude
Defend Your Castle (Now a WiiWare game)
RuneScape

And of course the millions of other games that are one the net!
For some examples you can check mine out here; http://alexfili.deviantart.com/

 
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Dr. James MD

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31st May, 2008 at 04:01:47 -

But you see most of them Flash games you mention are little games. I haven't seen a large epic Flash game (barring my lectures friends), I haven't seen an ED of the Flash world. They're mostly just concepts that don't get fleshed out.

 
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LIJI

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31st May, 2008 at 04:12:07 -


And for those who says Flash isnt meant for games, I mention the following;
Bowmaster Prelude
Defend Your Castle (Now a WiiWare game)
RuneScape



You still don't get the point.
I shall quote myself:


Even if someone manages to make a good Flash game, it would have been much easier to make it with a software that was made for that propose, like MMF2, C++ with Graphical Libraries etc, and the result will probably be better by Graphics and resource usage.



Those games you've mentioned could have be done much faster and be of a much better quality if they were done with the right tool, tools that was meant for making games, and I'm not talking strictly about MMF2.
No matter how do you look at it, the average MMF games still beats the average Flash game.

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