I dunno if I'm just tired, but I laughed pretty good at that troll.
Originally Posted by Johnny Look Retarded tree ? He looks more like this to me:
btw gamester you haven't told us what you have done in 10 years in this crappy community.
Nothing!
Besides finishing a game for the 02 xmas competition and losing it from a computer problem, unfortunately.
I wish that I could have submitted one of my superior masterpieces by now. (get it?)
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII It really just sounds to me like you took major offense to me talking about your games that I haven't played or something.
Calm down
This really is an hilarious comment. I have a right to comment on something I have never tried!
This thread is very entertaining on all sorts of levels - i won't go into that in any more detail though! Here's my two-penneth on a few things though;
1. We don't (really) need a Critique category in the Boards section - seriously, that's what the comments/boards sections on the Devlog/Downloads section is for, from what i can see. Why complicate things more? Just utilise what we have better. From experience, i've also used pm's to offer more private feedback to some members previously.
2. GamesterXIII, many of the points you have made have been sweeping and have little/nothing to back them up as fact. In fact, they come across as opinion nearly all the time (which isn't the worst thing in the world) though it does sometimes seem to most of us like you are getting the two (opinions and fact) muddled. Some examples of opinion that comes across as fact are;
"Any game that gets submitted here that has sub-par gameplay and even half decent graphics is an instant hit" - surely you've not played every game on here?
"Most of you guys ignore bugs because you don't think you can fix them or something" - how can you know this?
"Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try" - so we don't try? how do you know we don't try?
"Sorry, Nastyman, but I really don't think you try to push yourself to make better games, and everyone else, including myself, didn't bother pointing out what was wrong with the game aside from "the controls are slippery, but otherwise its good,"" - maybe it was only you that thought that there was more wrong with Nastyman's game other than the controls. Again, how can you know what we all think?
"I'm sorry that you take opinions personally and can't handle truths" - again, these are your opinions and this isn't the same as truth.
Even adam showed the example where 0 stars was given by you for a game with no feedback. It is actions like these that drive people's opinions of you, and therefore fuel actions against you.
If you'd like some feedback from me (and i'll try to balance it the best i can), then i would say...
you are very good at feeding users of TDC your opinions of games you've played on here. This is a good start as it can be used to help make game makers on TDC better by pointing out when they could improve their work. The trouble is, without specifics from you and ideas on solutions, it can come across as being overly critical. You could improve getting your point across more contructively by saying something like "it's a shame there was a short time-scale for completion as the bugs present spoilt the gameplay for me - i would prefer to see a game released bug-free after 4 weeks rather than a bug-riddled game after 2 weeks", rather than saying your opinion, i.e. "Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try".
Here, i have kept to specifics (using quotes) and tried to offer alternatives. To some, this sounds "sugary" and "nice-nice" but it is in fact a type of constructive criticism, or i like to call it, feedback.
3. As much as i disagree with GamesterXIII (and i really do), i think this is getting really out of hand! just my opinion...
You make a good point, but I still strongly disagree with you. I'm pretty sure a critique section will get more constructive replies (as that is the point right?) I don't really feel good pming someone about their game for a couple of reasons.
A. You might seem like a major douche because they didn't ask.
B. You will run into people on both ends of the spectrum : Some that don't care about getting critiques and some that don't. At least in a critique forum you would be much more likely to find people that actually do want crits.
"Any game that gets submitted here that has sub-par gameplay and even half decent graphics is an instant hit" - surely you've not played every game on here?
Of course not, but i've seen enough of this trend to know that most games that get submitted here that have good graphics get much more praise than ones that do not have great graphics, regardless of gameplay.
"Most of you guys ignore bugs because you don't think you can fix them or something" - how can you know this?
I don't . Actually, I'm pretty sure I've run across people talking about not worrying about bug x because "it isn't a big deal." (can be something as "small" as sinking in old platform engines.)
"Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try" - so we don't try? how do you know we don't try?
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I should have said large games. Small games aren't impossible to create in 2 weeks, but they aren't easy if you're not completely prepared and motivated. A lot of people seem to try to create huge adventures in 2 weeks, which is just way too little time, no matter who you are.
"Sorry, Nastyman, but I really don't think you try to push yourself to make better games, and everyone else, including myself, didn't bother pointing out what was wrong with the game aside from "the controls are slippery, but otherwise its good,"" - maybe it was only you that thought that there was more wrong with Nastyman's game other than the controls. Again, how can you know what we all think?
I'm not answering this.
tl;dr
I still really think that TDC could benefit from a critique forum.
Originally Posted by GamesterXIII It really just sounds to me like you took major offense to me talking about your games that I haven't played or something.
Calm down
I am calm, and I don't take offense to anything you've said. Why would I take offense to someone who has no leg to stand on? You made a stupid point, I called you on it, and rather than admit you made a mistake, you continued to argue a weak standpoint. I rarely ever get offended or bothered by anything anymore. I just like to argue, do we have a problem with that?
And as Hayo mentioned earlier, why are you making this about you and me? Clearly you can see my posts have been about the situation in general and you trying to force your opinions on everyone else with no basis. But you would've understood that if you had actually read anything I wrote instead of coming up with an unrelated synopsis based on the cliff notes. If you're tired, great, but just take a deep breath and forget about it, this thread will be here when you wake up.
All we're tying to say is don't knock it until you've tried it, and you can give people suggestions on how to do it better, but if you sound like a douche and you haven't given any proof as to how you have any clue on how to do it better, than why should we take you seriously?
We can get along just fine, I just have a very low tolerance for ignorance, especially when that person fights tooth an nail to justify it. Is it really that hard to just say "Alright, well, maybe I might be wrong, let me try to see things from your point of view."? You could try to argue the same thing about my standpoint, but I can assure you I've been there before.
You got angry because something you tried to do didn't go over as well as you had hoped, and something you felt wasn't as good got more attention, this isn't the only place that happens, so it's not entirely fair to single it out for such. You just have to take into consideration that this is a small group of people that are pretty busy with their own projects.
I've said it many times, this is a community of developing games, not the best place for having people play your games. The only reason I got that feedback on Halloween Candy was because I worked for it, I went around playing as many of the other games around that same general time of release, gave my feedback on them, and eventually one of the people I had gave feedback to actually conversed with me about it. Then, I eventually asked him to do the same for my game. But really I think it was also Hayo (maybe Lambert, I don't remember off hand) that told me that the major problem with my game was that it came out of nowhere with no hype, and it was out of season.
And you've demonstrated another point on why there isn't many people playing games on here, people are superficial and will judge your game based on the screen shots and description. That's how it's always been, people do it all the time, otherwise why would you need a cover for your book, a title or a description? Do you expect 1000's of people to try your crap just because you told them to? The only difference is most people keep that to themselves and move on, because they know that doesn't count as constructive criticism on the game itself, you're trying to argue that it does.
I'm not going to lie, it is frustrating when you work really hard on something and no one cares, but if you haven't payed any attention to what they have done, wouldn't that make you just as bad?
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That Really Hot Chick
now on the Xbox Live Marketplace!
Originally Posted by Marko This thread is very entertaining on all sorts of levels - i won't go into that in any more detail though! Here's my two-penneth on a few things though;
1. We don't (really) need a Critique category in the Boards section - seriously, that's what the comments/boards sections on the Devlog/Downloads section is for, from what i can see. Why complicate things more? Just utilise what we have better. From experience, i've also used pm's to offer more private feedback to some members previously.
2. GamesterXIII, many of the points you have made have been sweeping and have little/nothing to back them up as fact. In fact, they come across as opinion nearly all the time (which isn't the worst thing in the world) though it does sometimes seem to most of us like you are getting the two (opinions and fact) muddled. Some examples of opinion that comes across as fact are;
"Any game that gets submitted here that has sub-par gameplay and even half decent graphics is an instant hit" - surely you've not played every game on here?
"Most of you guys ignore bugs because you don't think you can fix them or something" - how can you know this?
"Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try" - so we don't try? how do you know we don't try?
"Sorry, Nastyman, but I really don't think you try to push yourself to make better games, and everyone else, including myself, didn't bother pointing out what was wrong with the game aside from "the controls are slippery, but otherwise its good,"" - maybe it was only you that thought that there was more wrong with Nastyman's game other than the controls. Again, how can you know what we all think?
"I'm sorry that you take opinions personally and can't handle truths" - again, these are your opinions and this isn't the same as truth.
Even adam showed the example where 0 stars was given by you for a game with no feedback. It is actions like these that drive people's opinions of you, and therefore fuel actions against you.
If you'd like some feedback from me (and i'll try to balance it the best i can), then i would say...
you are very good at feeding users of TDC your opinions of games you've played on here. This is a good start as it can be used to help make game makers on TDC better by pointing out when they could improve their work. The trouble is, without specifics from you and ideas on solutions, it can come across as being overly critical. You could improve getting your point across more contructively by saying something like "it's a shame there was a short time-scale for completion as the bugs present spoilt the gameplay for me - i would prefer to see a game released bug-free after 4 weeks rather than a bug-riddled game after 2 weeks", rather than saying your opinion, i.e. "Every game released within 2 weeks will almost inevetably suck and be ridden with bugs, which really aren't that hard to phase out if you try".
Here, i have kept to specifics (using quotes) and tried to offer alternatives. To some, this sounds "sugary" and "nice-nice" but it is in fact a type of constructive criticism, or i like to call it, feedback.
3. As much as i disagree with GamesterXIII (and i really do), i think this is getting really out of hand! just my opinion...
I just have to say those are remarkable points, you carried yourself very well. I'll have to admit I was one of those who lumped opinion and fact. Thank you for taking much more time than I to pull up the exact quotes, therefor leading to a much better argument on the subject.
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That Really Hot Chick
now on the Xbox Live Marketplace!
I don't know about anyone else; i'd rather have someone comment on my game in the Devlog/Downloads/pm sections than some generic forum in a Critic section. In the Devlog/Downloads/pm sections the critique would feel more constructive, rather than feeling like "shooting and running" in a forum not directly related to my game. It would feel to me kind of like "tell me to my face, not talk about me behind my back".
Also, from the feedback i've had with private pm's concerning games, here are some genuine quotes i've received from private feedback(names with-held);
"will do when i get home thank you"
"They're not animated, but that is a good idea. And thanks for the compliment on the site." - i became a member of this person's project with the game quoted about here
"Yes it helps.. I'll take a closer look at your findings and go back to development to fix it. Thanks"
From experience, the response you get from the person you pm relies upon how you come across with your original pm. I try to be balanced when i approach people, saying things like "hey, i really liked .... but i was thinking you could make .... better by trying ....! Hope it helps!" and of course, being genuine. I never onced lied when praising people. Even the newest of noobs has a talent that shines through their noobish games, and i like to find that and let them know.
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Edited by an Administrator
. . . I think I saved it somewhere so maybe he will be back
