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Muz



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28th May, 2010 at 20:36:13 -

Indie games just doesn't make money. Way too many people in it, it's oversaturated. It's possible to make money, but the odds are so poor that you'd have a higher chance of getting into Harvard.

Capitalism just fails utterly when it comes to software. The idea behind it is that that if your prices are too high, the market forces would bring them down to whatever is most affordable. Well, here, pirates can undercut anyone's prices. A game's price is really just a forced donation.

 
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AndyUK

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28th May, 2010 at 23:44:04 -

Hmm, you know I'm pretty sure James had been working on a demo for Tormishire that was actually a separate chapter altogether. I don't know why that never happened.

 
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Assault Andy

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29th May, 2010 at 06:56:46 -

Indie games just doesn't make money. Way too many people in it, it's oversaturated. It's possible to make money, but the odds are so poor that you'd have a higher chance of getting into Harvard.

Sorry that is just completely wrong. I don't know how you formed that opinion?

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http://www.gameproducer.net/2006/09/28/11316053-indie-game-sales/

http://greyaliengames.com/blog/some-fantastic-indie-sales-stats/
(Note Blue Tea Games = MMF developer)

http://greyaliengames.com/blog/i-have-sold-100000-units-online-woo/



 
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29th May, 2010 at 10:16:40 -

Making it in the indiegame scene is just like making it in the music industry in the sixties really. You have to be kind of talented, be original enough and have a large dose of luck at some point and then hope you aren't being ripped off. Personally I see any money I make with this as a huge bonus.

 
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Flava



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29th May, 2010 at 11:18:58 -

I always think that if you have a good game at a reasonable price, then it will sell - whether it's an indie game or not. I personally didn't buy or play Wake because it looked a bit more-of-the-same compared to Lunnye. Maybe it was the re-use of the Tormishire engine that put me off or something, I'm not really sure. Maybe it would have been a better experience for me if I had a 360 controller..

Indie games can definitely make money though - you just need a decent price and you need to market it well. Which is easier said than done I suppose..

 
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Muz



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29th May, 2010 at 12:09:40 -


Originally Posted by Assault Andy
Indie games just doesn't make money. Way too many people in it, it's oversaturated. It's possible to make money, but the odds are so poor that you'd have a higher chance of getting into Harvard.

Sorry that is just completely wrong. I don't know how you formed that opinion?



Whenever someone says that indie games don't make money, people link to those guys. The indie games bundle is a new example, and good one. Cliff Harris twists his stats out of proportion. If he really did make as much money as he suggests, he wouldn't be whining about not being able to make money. I bought one of his games, my sister bought another, and both were rip-offs. The demo was an hour or two of fun, the full game was barely more than the demos and the biggest waste of $20 ever. Will never buy again, and I doubt his success will last long.

Serious, full time indie contenders are groups like Spiderweb Software and Trophy Manager (130K players, 20-30% of them paying at any moment). But talking to some of them, they only get paid as much as the average grocery worker. Spiderweb earns like $100K per game, the income still keeps flowing in. Their secret? Hard work. And hard work = time = money. It doesn't mean anything if you make $100K of revenue from a game, but the game itself costs $120K to make.

Steve (Blue Tea Games) is a great example of a success story. He puts his games on TDC, but doesn't do it so much recently. He got some fairly poor responses to his games, but seems to be doing nicely in the shareware industry. Taking a comment from one of his old games on TDC:
"Thanks for the input guys, its good to hear from a community that support my game. Friends used to tell me that MMF is only for hobbyist and its impossible to make money. This is my limelight to disprove this. So if you really enjoy this game, go and tell your friends and family and anyone who like gaming! Spread this like a wildfire. My aim is to compete and beat the other big boys right now in the shareware puzzle market. From your word of mouth, I'll be another step closer =."


It's certainly not impossible, but it needs a lot of hard work and passion. For every person you hear making lots of money from it, there's one who only breaks even, and dozens of others you don't hear not making money. I still stand by that statement. Apparently Harvard has a 8-12% admission rate, which is probably higher than the rate of people who try to sell indie games and actually make a profit.

 
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.

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alastair john jack

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29th May, 2010 at 14:20:52 -

I think it's important that if you're making a game, you're doing it because you love the game. Getting money for your game should just be a nice reward.

Edited by alastair john jack

 
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5th June, 2010 at 12:50:27 -

I agree with alastair. Making indie games should be a hobby, and making profit is only a bonus. If you want to make money with games, you should've gone to game university (However I am still trying to beat a friend of mine from a game school with my indie games )

 
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Matthew Wiese

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19th June, 2010 at 04:26:33 -

It's sad to see Tormishire abondoned, it's one of the only MMF games I was actually thinking of buying.

Originally Posted by -Adam-
what I refer to as "lazy graphics" (See Knytt stories).

And Adam,I could run you up and down the street for what you said here, but I'm not going to. You may think Knytt Stories sprites look lazy but some people actually think the simplicity is attractive, I wouldn't hae wanted to play KS with Tormi gfx, would you?

 
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Jon Lambert

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19th June, 2010 at 04:46:32 -

This will be the second time I post this, but again, James apparently hasn't given up on Tormishire.

Originally Posted by Jon Lambert
Okay, found the part where he says he's going to finish Tormishire: http://satansam.co.uk/blog/?p=1165
Also...

Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
It's sad to see Tormishire abondoned, it's one of the only MMF games I was actually thinking of buying.

Originally Posted by -Adam-
what I refer to as "lazy graphics" (See Knytt stories).

And Adam,I could run you up and down the street for what you said here, but I'm not going to. You may think Knytt Stories sprites look lazy but some people actually think the simplicity is attractive, I wouldn't hae wanted to play KS with Tormi gfx, would you?


With regards to what Adam says, just because graphics are attractive in their simplicity does not mean they are not lazy, as laziness is a function of how little work has been done or desired to be done in something into which a greater amount of effort could be put.

Finally, this post is, what, 14 days old?

 
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Ski

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19th June, 2010 at 10:16:00 -

"I wouldn't hae wanted to play KS with Tormi gfx, would you?"

I honestly wouldn't care.

 
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Ricky

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19th June, 2010 at 11:18:43 -

Ladders 2 style graphics are clearly the best

 
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Matthew Wiese

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19th June, 2010 at 13:59:17 -

@Jon I know it's 14 days old but I felt I had to put in my opinions. I never knew Nifflas considered his graphics lazy, or maybe that's the opinion everyone else had just because his game got so much attention even though he didn't "visibily put effort" in the gfx.

@Adam Now that I re-read what I said, ya I guess it would have charm either way. I was rushing my comment.

 
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GamesterXIII



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21st June, 2010 at 06:51:58 -

^I think Nifflas makes terrible games. He definitely doesn't deserve the praise that he receives.

How many people pirated James games?

3?

You guys look at piracy like the worst thing ever. If you would look at the big picture and use 1/1000th of your brains, you would realize that people who pirate most likely would not buy your games in the first place.

Piracy statistics are fake about 100% of the time. Even in the "non indie" gaming industry the impact of piracy is miniscule compared to the numbers that people and companies flaunt around. Piracy is just something that people blame for their game/software not doing well, when in reality it didn't take off because it is bad, released at a bad time, or wasn't advertised properly for what it is.

In some cases piracy is good.

Metallica would not be around if it wasn't for piracy.
They became big because their music was passed around on P2P networks. Their drummer is a whiny little twat and complained about it all the time, but he would not be where he is standing today if it wasn't for this dreaded Piracy.

You guys need to read up and learn to use those things inside of your heads.

Edited by GamesterXIII

 
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Del Duio

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21st June, 2010 at 16:45:11 -

^^ Hahaha ^^

Well Metallica would still be around because they were huge long before that Napster debacle (remember the black album came out years before the internet was even invented).

But yeah Lars is a whiny little twat I gotta' agree. The only good one in the band now is James and even Jason left because they got too soft.

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