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Muz



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8th May, 2010 at 08:49:11 -


Originally Posted by Matt Boothman
The solution? Well I'd suggest its up to Islamic society and Muslims in general to start to ignore any drawings, criticisms of Islam or any other things you don't like. There's is nothing a writer, a cartoonist, or a comedian hates more than being ignored. It's up to Islamic countries to educate itself about the West. However, I hold no hope of this happening, as Islamic countries, such as Iran, Pakistan etc, tend to be anti-education, anti-science and pro-ignorance. For such a scientific and mathematically successful religion, Muslims sure do find it easy to stick their heads in the sand.



Good points, overall, but it looks like the box's already been opened. Had this been the pre-Gulf War era, I think the whole Muslim community would be happy to ignore them - a boycott or overall shunning would be more likely. But since the whole war thing started, they're taking it as a personal attack; it's considered an act of blatant racism. Once you throw the first punch, it's much easier to throw a whole flurry of punches. If someone who looks like them (terrorist/soldier) punches a guy who looks like you, you're going to assume all of them are hostile.

"Muslim" unfortunately covers a huge range of people. You've got the millions of ignorant people who still believe that raped women should be stoned to death. You also have have the millions of other Muslims who fight for women's rights and oppose those same people. But the good ones would never make it in the media of certain countries. Australia's been a little nice with this aspect recently, what with the "banning of the burqa" debates on TV actually taking both sides, instead of just showing it from a single angle. Iran is by far a very educated country, equal to many European ones (nuclear physics is not easy), but the media loves to portray them as barbarians, which really annoys me. They elected their president peacefully, yet the opposition loves going to Western media and scream "dictator".

Not educating themselves about the West goes both ways, though. Judging from the media, Americans don't even know where Iraq or Egypt is. How many can name a single Eastern philosopher/leader other than Mao/Confucious/Saladin? I'm definitely working on educating the East, but it's very difficult when the West loves to unapologetically insult them. Similarly, it's difficult to educate the West when the East keeps screaming for death to the west. Seriously, a few death threats for a cartoon gets drowned out when there's Facebook groups with tens of thousands of members making them all the time.

In the end, all you can do is just sit down and facepalm when you read things like this. Sometimes after too many hours of yelling at both sides, sitting silently seems to be the only smart thing to do.


Ah, and Marko, you'll find that the USA military killed a lot more innocents. Certainly CNN wouldn't report on it. Search up who exactly died in Middle East then tell me if I'm wrong. Is it any more wrong to kill two families to "liberate" their country than it is to kill a single person because one disapproves of their military? They both have their reasons, to win their own wars. Maybe in WW2, it was about who could kill the most combatants, but The War on Terror is about who can break the other's spirit more.


And I'd apologize to anyone I offended here, because I'm mostly pissed off about how the media here prefers to play both sides against each other. It's probably the same way you guys would feel if you see something like "Teenager steals car after playing GTA". It might as well be "Teenager steals car after eating lunch", but the media just loves to completely hide out all good things and twist the words.

If it was a white man and another white man fighting in a bar, it would be "Man kills other man over insult". 10 years ago, if there was a black man, it'd be "Black man kills white man over insult." Today, put in a brown man, and it becomes, "Muslim kills man over insult." Or even "Muslim insulted man, killed". It's still the same thing, stupid people, stupid death. Yet to sell more papers, the media prefers to build up an image of violent extremists, and I'm not happy with that.

In this case, you've just lost 10 minutes of South Park. Or an episode at worst. But Western media preferred to focus on the fact that someone was sending death threats over a comic. Muslims preferred to focus on the issue as a hate crime, and portrayed South Park as the KKK. It does nothing to get rid of the racist/genocidal stigma if you refuse to apologize.

 
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Marko

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8th May, 2010 at 09:06:14 -

@Muz - I've never had the urge or need/want to kill a Muslim, or indeed ever have killed a Muslim, yet there are those extremist Muslims who tell the world (often from the comfort of my own country) that as a westerner/Brit/infidel/non-Muslim i should die. That's what i have a problem with and in my eyes it is completely unreasonable to want this and those who do want it are unreasonable people.

With unreasonable people you cannot talk to them, explain your side of the story, use diplomacy, etc. as this is only effective if both sides are reasonable parties - as i said above, how can people like that be reasonable people? How can you reason with unreasonable people? I didn't invade their country; i've been sat here making MMF2 games!!

That is why i have no doubt in my mind that the world is in the middle of a "war on terror", and the Muslim Extremists are our enemy. When we defeat them in combat or when they come to their senses and decide not to try and blow us up all the time, then the war will be over.

 
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8th May, 2010 at 09:38:44 -

Muz, i'm pissed off that you think south park shouldn't criticize islam, when i laughed when they criticize my beliefs. Also, Muhammad in a bear costume somehow justifies death threats. BS

 
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8th May, 2010 at 17:06:02 -

Absolutely nothing should be off limits for South Park to make fun of. Nothing.
No one is better than anyone else. I'm an atheist and quite frankly, I think all of this religious bullshit is just that, hilarious and pointless. I mean really? Death threats? Jesus, I try not to be ignorant but this whole thing is just ridiculous.

 
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Watermelon876



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8th May, 2010 at 22:28:14 -

First, I feel that it is a lot easier to get inot the news with death threats than peace threats. Also, this is going nowhere. Whatever happened happened. It's over now. I personally feel we should lock this topic. Now you know everyone's point of view. But who cares? It's not like comedy central is actually listening... This is just a topic of argument, so I believe it should be locked. In fact, I don't think anybody should start a topic about something that pisses them off. It's just far too polarizing.

 
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8th May, 2010 at 22:29:36 -


Originally Posted by Muz

In this case, you've just lost 10 minutes of South Park. Or an episode at worst. But Western media preferred to focus on the fact that someone was sending death threats over a comic. Muslims preferred to focus on the issue as a hate crime, and portrayed South Park as the KKK. It does nothing to get rid of the racist/genocidal stigma if you refuse to apologize.



That's not the point. It's not 10 minutes of a cartoon, it is symptomatic of a larger hatred of free speech. If you concede ten minutes of a cartoon, next it will be conceding other people's opinions, other debate. Where would it end? Would we be able to say anything about Islam? Westerners live in a society that puts personal liberty above religious monopoly, and the East needs to recognise this. After all - these cartoons were made in the West, by Westerners, for Westerners. Some sections of Islam try to assert its own values on people that aren't Islamic and do not live in Islamic countries. This is wrong.

I do agree that the media does play up to the extremist Muslim jihadist stereotype; it does nothing to help at all. But the media has always done that.

Iran is an educated country in some terms, but socially it is backward (or rather, its government is). Ask a follower of the Baha'i faith for confirmation. You say its government was 'peacefully elected'? I'm sorry but you need to educate yourself a bit there, look it up; there were deaths, corruption, dissidents arrested, tortured and killed. Iran is a country that has been portrayed as being barbaric, largely because its government is! I do not confuse the citizens of Iran with its backward leaders though.

 
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8th May, 2010 at 22:33:16 -

Arguments are good for the community.

Personally I am with SiLVERFIRE here. Religion is a complete waste of time and so are people who get upset when their religion is made fun of.

 
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Matt Boothman

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8th May, 2010 at 22:36:23 -


Originally Posted by Watermelon876
First, I feel that it is a lot easier to get inot the news with death threats than peace threats. Also, this is going nowhere. Whatever happened happened. It's over now. I personally feel we should lock this topic. Now you know everyone's point of view. But who cares? It's not like comedy central is actually listening... This is just a topic of argument, so I believe it should be locked. In fact, I don't think anybody should start a topic about something that pisses them off. It's just far too polarizing.



Are you advocating censorship there???????
jk lol

 
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8th May, 2010 at 22:47:59 -


Originally Posted by Hayo
Arguments are good for the community.

Personally I am with SiLVERFIRE here. Religion is a complete waste of time and so are people who get upset when their religion is made fun of.


The irony is (and this backs up why i am against those who threaten to kill over their beliefs) i agree with this and at the same time i respect and leave alone those who disagree with me and my opinion...

...unless of course if they want to kill me because i have this opinion (such as Muslim extremists!)

 
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Hayo

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8th May, 2010 at 22:54:15 -

I actually get easily pissed off with religious people, even when they don't want me dead. I keep running into the kind of people that go "Hey, God would really be something for you" or "I pray for you every night even though you don't believe in anything". And then in the following argument it turns out I read the Bible and they didn't.

 
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8th May, 2010 at 23:43:11 -


Originally Posted by Watermelon876
Whatever happened happened. It's over now. I personally feel we should lock this topic.



It's not over. The episode is still banned. Therefore it's still going on and it's only going to get worse unless something is done about it.

This is the number to the website that made the threats, and endorsed the death of theo van go.
(212)203-7606
Until people aren't afraid, i'm going to keep calling them, and i encourage you to do it too.

 
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Hayo

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9th May, 2010 at 01:12:26 -

Theo van Gogh, not van Go. This is why Americans should stop pronouncing foreign words in their own language.

Calling that number sounds like fun

 
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JustinC



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10th May, 2010 at 04:57:21 -

Amen Boothman. Freedom of speech. South Park can say or show whatever they want, unless it upsets one specific group of people? This just frustrates me to no end. They can show Jesus watching porn and people will of course be offended, but none of those people will threaten violence. But the people who do threaten violence get their way? How is this acceptable?! This is the example that is being set for people. Use violence to promote your views and people will give in to them.

I have heard that areas in europe have been going to shit due to people giving in to this sort of mentality. Muslims living by their own rules and nobody says or does anything to stand up to it.

 
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Marko

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10th May, 2010 at 18:29:37 -

Giving in to violence is also how the likes of the Mafia get reputations - no-one seems to justify those guys either!

 
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SoftWarewolf

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17th May, 2010 at 11:22:58 -

So are anyone planning something for "draw muhammad day" on may20? i already got a special update ready for my game starcraft goliath, and i might be creating a new game as well, if i got time.

I am not creating this to insult anyone personally.
It is, however, a moral and political opposition to censorship, islam, the koran, religion and irrational belief's in general.

I hope to see more games as well and it could be a very interesting discussion indeed if TDC actually censors and deletes any of them.

 
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