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Rob Rule

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12th August, 2009 at 13:16:19 -

Show me these studies, and I'll show you the national gun crime and accident rates for those countries without a ban on firearms, vs those with.

 
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Otter

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12th August, 2009 at 15:43:53 -

Then I'll show you how much higher the national gun crime rate is for those without gun control. Plus you can't do accurate comparisons unless you do percents, because some countries are much bigger than other, example UK and USA. But I would definitely say the whole UK has more crime than the US State of Texas. I don't have any numbers to prove it, but it's a pretty obvious assumption I beleive, and Texas is bigger than the UK!

But I do have numbers on the conceal and carry, which allows people to conceal and carry firearms
I just so happened to google "statistic crime in conceal and carry"
source=http://www.everycowgirlsdream.com/righttocarry.html

It says:
"States with right-to-carry have lower violent crime rates, compared to states without right-to-carry laws. In states whose laws respect the citizen's right-to-carry guns for self defense the total crime is 13% lower, homicide is 3% lower, robbery is 26% lower and aggravated assault is 7% lower. (Data: Crime in 1996 FBI Uniform Crime Results)"

Okay, sorry for saying I always cause arguments, then arguing back, but I'm from South West Illinois and the fat cats up in Chicago are always passing down their laws on top of us. So we are forced to fight more than just about anybody for our rights. Sorry about keeping this thing going, but where I'm from gun-control is about the biggest evil that can be forced upon you.

 
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Dr. James MD

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12th August, 2009 at 16:23:40 -

I think all you need is this;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence

As one of the world powers the US is very high up on that list. The problem with a state like Texas is (and correct me if this information is out of date) you're allowed to shoot someone who you think might steal your car, and the right to carry a concealed weapon isn't a good idea either.
Of note I only know of one person with a gun. And it's a ruddy shotgun too! I know where its kept so if the zombie apocalyspe kicks in I'll be sitting pretty for a while.

 
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UrbanMonk

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12th August, 2009 at 16:44:35 -

How convenient for the "study" to have been performed by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, also that data is from year 2000.

Another thing for one to consider is: "In the United States, cities tend to have higher gun crime rates but lower rates of gun ownership, compared with rural areas which tend to have lower gun crime rates but higher rates of gun ownership." Which is on the same page.

So if the AMOUNT of people who own GUNS is the problem, why then is it that there are less gun crimes in areas with more guns?

 
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Ski

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Candy Cane
12th August, 2009 at 16:54:54 -

"and Texas is bigger than the UK!"

In size yes, in population no.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8141682.stm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/elevenyearold-boy-shot-dead-in-liverpool-car-park-462676.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6930791.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/22/knife-crime-deaths-rise



 
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Rob Rule

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12th August, 2009 at 16:57:02 -

Wiiman: all comparative rates are percentages, or measured per set number of population, it would otherwise be unworkable.

I'm not going to discuss your 'I don't have any numbers to prove it, but it's a pretty obvious assumption I beleive', so let's leave that one where it belongs.

Some stats.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

The murder rate's 3x higher on your mass o' land, and I don't believe an armed populace is a deterrent for criminal behaviour (just as the death penalty has proven not to be).

I once had a gun pulled on me in Texas, in a motel parking lot, but not once did I wish I'd one in my hand to 'even' the threat. In reality there are many reasons why someone would commit crime, and nine times out of ten it's desperation, not malice. Using Texas as an example, it's legal to shoot someone if you believe that they're going to steal your car. Sorry, but a car or a wallet isn't as important as human life - any human life; if we don't have a universal, equal law on the importane of life, then we forfeit our own rights in the process. The simple fact is that disarming the general public makes guns less readily available. This is a fairly futile debate, though, because when it comes to subjects of defense people can be quite defensive, as is their right.

'Then I'll show you how much higher the national gun crime rate is for those without gun control.'

Please do.


 
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UrbanMonk

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12th August, 2009 at 16:59:11 -

Why is it that when we have a problem with guns they want to make them harder to get.

Whereas when we have a problem with specific types of drugs they want to legalize them.

Makes no sense to me. Especially since a lot of gun murders in my area involve drugs. If someones gonna kill someone over drugs they'll find a way. Gun or not.

 
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OMC

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12th August, 2009 at 17:33:27 -

Touchy subject.

I don't personally have a gun. Nor do I want one. But if people who are illegally getting guns (whether or not gun control is put in place) live around me, and I'm in a dangerous area, I want to be able to obtain one for myself. That's a right I was given by the constitution.

If gun control is put in place, people will still get guns and people will still steal guns. Heck, people don't need a gun to hurt you. And people may come from another country with guns. I'm not forecasting some anarchistic apocalypse, but it could happen. If that does happen I want a gun.

I don't even know if I think that's the best mainstream policy, since people are stupid and kill. Yes, the more guns there are, of course the more killings there will be. But to tell the truth I don't give a fricken crap about stats and what other people choose to do as long as I can defend myself when need be. (Statistically, 100% of the people in the world do stupid things.) People who kill with guns will answer to the law, (If they're never caught, they'll get their due from someone else. ) and I won't have my rights taken away because of their stupidity. It is not right to deprive upstanding citizens of a method of defense because others abused it.

If I were attacked by someone with a gun, would I blame the government for not controlling guns? No, I would blame the person with the gun. I would wish I had a gun to defend myself.

I hate guns. I wish there was no need for them. I'd rather I didn't feel the need to protect myself from stupid people. Nobody tells me I can't.

And that is the last thing I'm going to say about it.

 

  		
  		

UrbanMonk

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12th August, 2009 at 18:12:28 -

Thanks for your honest input OMC. That's exactly how I feel about it.

And if Obama somehow gets his way, they'll have to kill me before I give up my guns.

Not that I have any, but still.

 
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Marko

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12th August, 2009 at 18:17:31 -

OMC, i agree ith the above post. The problems with our government here in the UK is that they seem to blanket-ban things as a result of public out-cry in isolated incidents. That and the fact they are all-round useless!

 
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12th August, 2009 at 18:44:20 -

OMC, I completely agree with you.

 
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Ski

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Candy Cane
12th August, 2009 at 18:53:57 -

I completely disagree. word.

 
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Hagar

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12th August, 2009 at 18:58:07 -

I agree with OMC . Gun Crime has continued to rise in the UK despite our laws banning hand guns. I know what happened in Dunblane was awful, but why did our government grant a well known nutcase a license! (refer to my earlier post, control).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm

Whether you like guns or not, the laws did not work in UK (maybe different elsewhere but I doubt it). I know of numerous armed robberies and shootings in Birmingham, with illegally obtained guns. By their very nature criminals are not normally going to legally obtain guns.

Whatís happened to our culture and morals? An example of this was the child that fell in that steep walled canal in London, two police arrived and just let him drown as it was deemed to dangerous to try and help. Did anyone think of getting a rope, instead of watching him drown?

I love my country and it makes me sick the mess itís been turned into. It all boils down to our poor police/judicial system again. We need REAL men back in the UK not turtle neck sweater wearing, smart car driving metrosexuals with no business acumen. Perhaps a UK thread is needed


 
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Marko

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12th August, 2009 at 19:00:05 -

For the record, i was agreeing with OMC. It's like saying "right, some football thugs had a big fight because of a game, we're banning everyone from going to football matches!"

Granted, this would never happen but it does follo the same principles. Saying that, i think that relaxing gun laws in the UK ould be a bad thing, like the Cannabis class-C fiasco was!

 
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Ski

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Candy Cane
12th August, 2009 at 19:02:18 -

A 15 year old shot himself in the head a few weeks ago, in the village near my town. His father didn't realise his son knew where the key to the gun cupboard was

 
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