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Ricky

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14th August, 2009 at 21:47:30 -

"As an aside, I hope MBK's suggestions weren't actual thoughts that went through his head. I mean, what would the Somalians think about it if we sent over all our "hard-core criminals".

Isn't that how we started Australia

Edited by Ricky

 
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Matt Boothman

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14th August, 2009 at 22:05:23 -

Not really. I can't be bothered to give you a potted history of Australia, but it wasn't the "convict colony" people make it out to be.

 
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Hagar

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You've Been Circy'd!Teddy Bear
14th August, 2009 at 23:01:43 -


Originally Posted by Matt Boothman
It's funny you mention banning hand-guns in the UK and trying to link it to a recent rise in gun crime, as if it was a recent thing. Not once in the last century have non-permit holders been able to hold a gun; not even during both World Wars were British people ever allowed to have unlicensed guns..

So when you say 'continued to rise' I'd like to know from what this rise has continued from? The 1860s?


From your favourite Labour Party Propaganda Source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
40% increase 2 years after ban.

More recent

http://www.newsmax.com/inside_cover/guns_england/2007/08/26/27556.html?s=al&promo_code=38F3-1
Upto double the amount at the time of the ban from 2007.

2008 around 4x
http://www.defendingthetruth.com/gun-control/16884-englands-gun-crimes-4-times-higher-since-ban.html

I personally dont want to own a handgun or anything btw . I am also fully aware of the licensing regulations. My viewpoint is once we start banning things where will it end? And during this time criminals can still obtain whatever they fancy.

My point is getting a better Police force (and more Police) in the UK and tougher sentences rather than more laws. Only time I seen a cop this week is in a speed trap!

Edited by an Administrator

 
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Otter

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16th August, 2009 at 15:32:54 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
A 15 year old shot himself in the head a few weeks ago, in the village near my town. His father didn't realise his son knew where the key to the gun cupboard was



That's not a valid argument at all...

So what about? You don't need a gun to kill yourself. He might have hung himself if he didn't find that gun. The gun just so happened to be how it happened, but it could have happened in multiple ways. Pills? Hanging? Drowning? Electricution? Jumping in front of a moving car? He could have even starved himself somehow. I am aware though, that all of these reasons are not as quick and that he might have gotten help before they finally killed him, but for hanging example, it would take him just as much time to set up a place to hang himself as it would be to find the key to the cupboard and get the gun out, load it and shoot himself. We can't blame something like this on the gun, it could have been anything, we should blame this on today's youth and the situations they've gone through.

 
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Marko

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16th August, 2009 at 17:05:41 -


Originally Posted by Wiiman

Originally Posted by -Adam-
A 15 year old shot himself in the head a few weeks ago, in the village near my town. His father didn't realise his son knew where the key to the gun cupboard was



That's not a valid argument at all...

So what about? You don't need a gun to kill yourself. He might have hung himself if he didn't find that gun. The gun just so happened to be how it happened, but it could have happened in multiple ways. Pills? Hanging? Drowning? Electricution? Jumping in front of a moving car? He could have even starved himself somehow. I am aware though, that all of these reasons are not as quick and that he might have gotten help before they finally killed him, but for hanging example, it would take him just as much time to set up a place to hang himself as it would be to find the key to the cupboard and get the gun out, load it and shoot himself. We can't blame something like this on the gun, it could have been anything, we should blame this on today's youth and the situations they've gone through.


You're almost right - it's a little unfair to blame the youth as a whole, more the individuals. Tougher sentencing is the best way to combat crime in this country; too many sentences are short and are spent in cushy, comfortable cells governed by the loony-left that thinks if you're kind to criminals, they'll have a change of heart and start being nice to everyone back.

If anyone else is to blame, it is the government!

 
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Dr. James MD

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16th August, 2009 at 17:33:54 -


Originally Posted by Wiiman


That's not a valid argument at all...


Exactly. As I said if someone wants to die they will die. There are knives my my kitchen drawer, an easy suicide weapon. Ban kitchen knives? 33% of suicides in the US in 2008 had been drinking. Ban that too?

 
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16th August, 2009 at 18:22:55 -

i agree with the point from above

 
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Ski

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16th August, 2009 at 21:54:50 -

Im glad people can use Google

 
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Dr. James MD

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16th August, 2009 at 22:19:22 -

... Because some can't?

 
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Hagar

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You've Been Circy'd!Teddy Bear
16th August, 2009 at 23:10:50 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
Im glad people can use Google



lol I presume this is aimed at me , to me its obvious crime is getting worse - I have been in birmingham twice now while there has been armed robberies (found out later on TV what the commotion was about) . Me and my mates always wonder where the police battle wagons/cars are off too .

Not to mention the time i was in birmingham during the race riots that was scary (thankfully it did not involve caucausions so i managed to get home in one piece although it took me hours with all of birminghams roads being closed down...)

 
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[DELETED]

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MushroomVIP MemberARGH Sign
17th August, 2009 at 02:30:22 -

I agree with what was said previous. If someone wants to do something badly enough, they WILL find the means to do so. Just because objects are not meant to be used for certain things, it doesn't mean they can't or won't be if someone feels that they must. So yeah, that goes for kitchen knives, ropes, guns (really, a gun in your house if you have one should be for self defence, or hunting), and half of the other things lying around your house it's possible to choke on, cut yourself on, bludgeon yourself with, pierce veins with, etc etc

 
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erghhhhx



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Mushroom
17th August, 2009 at 11:02:30 -

. . . Nvm . . .

Edited by erghhhhx

 
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Muz



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17th August, 2009 at 11:56:45 -

Well, let's just put it this way. Know all those random stabbings that happen quite a bit? Imagine if they were shootings instead of stabbings.

Bans don't keep guns away from criminals. They keep them away from kids. You don't see school shootings as often in countries where guns are banned from civilian use. And it's easier to kill someone on impulse with a gun than with a knife, so it's not a direct comparison. That's why you don't see that many people successfully killing themselves with a gun. You can find statistics, sure, just remember to compare gun availability and knife availability before you make your conclusion.

And tougher sentencing does not help combat crime.. if anything, the longer criminals spend in jail, the better the devoted criminals get at crime, because they learn it from other criminals. The casual/impulsive criminals turn into hardened criminals with tough sentences, because they lose out on more in life and find it harder to get a job. Higher fines mean that they'd offer higher bribes. Longer jail times mean more prisons and increasing guards and guard wages.

 
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Rob Rule

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17th August, 2009 at 12:23:36 -

Most excellent post, Muz.

 
It'll all blow over.

[DELETED]

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MushroomVIP MemberARGH Sign
17th August, 2009 at 12:44:43 -

Man .. he is surely right.

 
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