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Codemonkey

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21st July, 2009 at 19:32:57 -

I post games on a whim.

 
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Johnny Look

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21st July, 2009 at 21:35:16 -

I hate MMF2's events editor, and the fact that even though it's not directx based (well it wasn't until the releases of the first HWA builds) MMF2 is Windows only. I also hate the fact that, MMF2 being a updated version of KnP, it hasn't evolved much in 14 years of existence. MMF2 is now way behind the times and personally I think the only reason for someone to buy it is to avoid learning a programming language or to avoid waiting until construct gets fully stable, which, imo, doesn't make much sense.

I feel better now.

 
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OMC

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21st July, 2009 at 21:47:10 -

I love MMF2's event editor. And I think that it has evolved plenty, and that certain things don't need to change just for the sake of changing.

I also... don't see how it's behind the times...

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

Ricky

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21st July, 2009 at 22:00:10 -

See OMC, he left MMF2 on the table, and he placed a clock in front of it.

 
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Johnny Look

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21st July, 2009 at 22:56:02 -

Simple, no 3D support, it's not cross platform and it's still software accelerated (the HWA builds are still wip and unstable). Java support for mobiles was a nice addition but close to useless because the games are too slow and/or simply don't run on most phones. Also a built in physics engine would be nice too.


 
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Hayo

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21st July, 2009 at 23:07:19 -

I actually wonder how many people here would start making 3d games if MMF2 had 3d support (it has when using extensions btw). 3d is much harder in every way.

Edit: And I wanted to confess I never ate a taco.

Edited by Hayo

 
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Johnny Look

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21st July, 2009 at 23:10:53 -

Actually not really, it only adds a extra dimension, meshes and textures. And the OpenGL extension, from what I've seen, is close to useless.

oh and btw, mmf2 did evolve a lot, but as an example I know a programmer who created a whole 3D engine by himself in 3 months. The engine is stable and is on par with most modern engines. When I look at MMF2, I see that a whole team worked on that for 14 years and the first HWA build were only released recently when it should've been there by the release of TGF.

 
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OMC

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21st July, 2009 at 23:26:41 -

3D is moot, HWA is perfectly stable and working for me, and cross platform is hard to do with a snap of a finger with a large program. I'm sure MMF3 will be cross-platform from the start, since MMF2 is already being ported.

A physics engine would be quite nice.

In 1996, I don't think many people were concerned with HWA, nor were the projects created with it complicated enough to need it. Now, with our fancy effects, it's become evident that HWA is necessary.

A programmer can make plenty of engines in short amounts of time. MMF2 is a tool that takes a lot more since it's got to cater to the making of the game as well as the running of the game. And really, MMF2 hasn't taken 14 years to make. The foundation of the interface is what is 14 years old. (And you can't argue the interface idea showing its age, since it isn't. ) What else do you expect them to do to make MMF2 better?

I do not intend to turn this into a war though, so I'm dropping the subject.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

Ricky

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21st July, 2009 at 23:45:14 -

;__: I prefer hamburgers to tacos sometimes.

 
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DMT



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21st July, 2009 at 23:53:32 -

Great Ideas will be the death of me.

Also, Originally I tried to make everything 3-D. I succeeded in this in MMF2!!! It is completely possible, but ridiculously stupid and can really show how bad you are at art... And then I got bored and thought of a great idea.

 
I am no longer not a taco.

Johnny Look

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22nd July, 2009 at 00:10:46 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
3D is moot, HWA is perfectly stable and working for me, and cross platform is hard to do with a snap of a finger with a large program. I'm sure MMF3 will be cross-platform from the start, since MMF2 is already being ported.

A physics engine would be quite nice.

In 1996, I don't think many people were concerned with HWA, nor were the projects created with it complicated enough to need it. Now, with our fancy effects, it's become evident that HWA is necessary.

A programmer can make plenty of engines in short amounts of time. MMF2 is a tool that takes a lot more since it's got to cater to the making of the game as well as the running of the game. And really, MMF2 hasn't taken 14 years to make. The foundation of the interface is what is 14 years old. (And you can't argue the interface idea showing its age, since it isn't. ) What else do you expect them to do to make MMF2 better?

I do not intend to turn this into a war though, so I'm dropping the subject.



Ahaha no actually we're having a pacific discussion which is nice and rather hard to find in this community.
On the subject:
About HWA, I base my opinion mostly on my short experience with it and other people's reports, and from what I gathered, HWA isn't 100% stable enough yet and many people reported weird bugs and graphical errors.
Personally I think turning a software rendered engine into a hardware accelerated one is actually harder than porting the software to other OSes, and I'm not even talking about DS or PSP developing here.

I believe by 1996 video cards were a common component on most PCs so if TGF had HWA by that time it wouldn't make it ahead of it's time. Of course, HWA would be useless if you'd be stuck with 256 object limitation but that's not really my point.

"A programmer can make plenty of engines in short amounts of time. MMF2 is a tool that takes a lot more since it's got to cater to the making of the game as well as the running of the game."

Actually what you said also applies to the development of a game engine, so in theory developing MMF2 is like developing any other engine.

"And really, MMF2 hasn't taken 14 years to make. The foundation of the interface is what is 14 years old. (And you can't argue the interface idea showing its age, since it isn't. )"
Actually it did, MMF2 is actually KnP 4.0 while MMF1 was KnP 1.0. They changed the interface and the name, but basically everything else is the same, but improved in some aspects.

"What else do you expect them to do to make MMF2 better? "
3D support (while keeping 2D support), cross platform development, fully stable HWA, decent object selection etc... I could go on all night, those features were the only ones I thought about at first.


Edited by Johnny Look

 
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Cecilectomy

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22nd July, 2009 at 00:27:50 -

"And I wanted to confess I never ate a taco."

";__: I prefer hamburgers to tacos sometimes."

HEATHENS!! THE BOTH OF YA!!!

 
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OMC

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22nd July, 2009 at 00:35:34 -


Originally Posted by Johnny Look
Ahaha no actually we're having a pacific discussion which is nice and rather hard to find in this community.



Is it just me or is it kind of calming down around here?

Well I think if I were to say anything else I would be repeating myself, and I have Burger King waiting for me in the kitchen. I'll be back later.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

UrbanMonk

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22nd July, 2009 at 01:59:00 -


Originally Posted by Johnny Look
I hate MMF2's events editor, and the fact that even though it's not directx based (well it wasn't until the releases of the first HWA builds) MMF2 is Windows only. I also hate the fact that, MMF2 being a updated version of KnP, it hasn't evolved much in 14 years of existence. MMF2 is now way behind the times and personally I think the only reason for someone to buy it is to avoid learning a programming language or to avoid waiting until construct gets fully stable, which, imo, doesn't make much sense.

I feel better now.



If you hate it so much why do you use it?

 
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Dr. James MD

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22nd July, 2009 at 02:27:12 -

I've never eaten a taco either, infact the only mexican food I've had was some kind of wrap once that wasn't very nice. I zpoze thats a kind of confession.
And something else.

 
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