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AndyUK

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8th March, 2009 at 19:26:52 -

Here's the idea

It's late 80s/early 90s and two new gaming consoles are to be released. Each with their own limitations and their own perks. The two consoles require third party games to be made for the launch and that is where we step in!
Us TDC members (or a group) are each our own 3rd party developer who has been choosen to create a game for the lineup. The games are then reviewed in a mock magazine and the total scores for the launch games are tallied up and ultimately reflect the sales figures for the consoles.

So the competition is a sort of roleplay where you basically need to create a game within set limitations to be reviewed at a later date. We can decide on the limitations later.

 
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Marko

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8th March, 2009 at 20:07:03 -

Sounds interesting.... keep going, i'm listening!

 
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8th March, 2009 at 20:16:13 -

This sounds bloody brilliant!

 
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8th March, 2009 at 20:18:16 -

Hey, whatever happened to the retro competition we talked about awhile back?

This sounds fun though. I think I'd be inclined to join since the graphics wouldn't have to be photoshop-quality. (Which is the biggest show stopper for me. )

Let's do it!

 

  		
  		

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8th March, 2009 at 20:37:58 -

I'm in! If I can actually finish a game in time, that is.

 
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9th March, 2009 at 01:28:44 -

Sounds damn cool. Good idea Andy!

*Thinks up game studio name*

 
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Neuro

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9th March, 2009 at 04:02:10 -

Nintega and Sonari?
Clicktendo?


 
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9th March, 2009 at 04:12:23 -

cecilvision

 
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9th March, 2009 at 07:01:05 -

Midway => Greenway

 
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9th March, 2009 at 07:35:18 -

Brilliant idea woooord

 
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9th March, 2009 at 08:00:48 -

im interested. specs and limitations? console names?

 
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9th March, 2009 at 09:25:06 -

Sounds fun, I'd love to do something like this

 
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9th March, 2009 at 14:09:21 -

I'd join, sounds fun.

 
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9th March, 2009 at 16:35:47 -

How about a launch game for the new top of the range consoles, the Atari Jaguar and the 3DO?

 
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9th March, 2009 at 16:38:23 -

Yesyesyesyesyesyes

I could help with the limitations.

 
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9th March, 2009 at 17:25:11 -


Originally Posted by Mark Radon
How about a launch game for the new top of the range consoles, the Atari Jaguar and the 3DO?





 

  		
  		

AndyUK

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9th March, 2009 at 17:48:53 -

Great! everyone likes the idea. I thought it was a bit nerdy in all honesty.

Everyone is welcome to shout out ideas. So long as the two 'consoles' are fairly unique it should be cool.

Also demos should be acceptable albeit at a loss to the overall score (or sales).

I might mock up two quick games when the limitations are finalised.

 
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9th March, 2009 at 18:24:05 -

AndyUK, we make video games. Nerdy?

I'm of the ever-so-humble opinion that they need to be pre-SNES era. Most click games are about that level or worse anyway so to not limit to NES or Atari level or something would be pointless.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

AndyUK

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9th March, 2009 at 18:53:31 -

Ok we're nerds...

Well we could always have one 8 bit console and one 16 bit console.

 
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Neuro

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9th March, 2009 at 19:01:24 -

But the 16-bit console has some glaring flaws because it's released before the technology is perfected?

I love the limitations idea. I think this compo will see some great entries, like the 20 event competition did

 
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9th March, 2009 at 19:07:33 -

Why make it home consoles? Why not choose some systems a little more 'exotic', such as the Game Gear (colour screen limited by pallet and resolution) and Game Boy (monochrome but most popular)??

 
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9th March, 2009 at 19:38:05 -

Yeah actually maybe they could be home computers, like the Amiga or commodore 64 or a handheld.

I'm working on some specs at the moment.

 
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9th March, 2009 at 20:24:46 -

I'll probably make a 5 colored game

 
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9th March, 2009 at 20:28:11 -

I love the sound of this project. Might even jump in if I can find the time. Should be very fun to see this competition out.



 
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9th March, 2009 at 21:37:09 -

Yes, very good. I would love this.

Edit: when do we start?

Edited by Fish20

 
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9th March, 2009 at 22:29:35 -


Originally Posted by Mark Radon
Why make it home consoles? Why not choose some systems a little more 'exotic', such as the Game Gear (colour screen limited by pallet and resolution) and Game Boy (monochrome but most popular)??


Exactly what I was thinking.

 
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9th March, 2009 at 22:31:51 -

We still need to work out how everything is going to work.

For instance how do we decide who works on what format? do i do a random draw? or let people decide for themselves?

Edited by AndyUK

 
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9th March, 2009 at 22:39:32 -

If you make both consoles equally good then it would be ok to pick.

 
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10th March, 2009 at 00:47:19 -

What about one console supports more colors, but the other runs faster? And stuff like that.

I only have about twenty million ideas for this

 
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10th March, 2009 at 01:11:26 -

I say we "invent" 3 consoles with very specific limitations. Grab together all the people who are entering and assign them a console (by random, so each system has roughly the same number of entrants, give or take 1).

Could have it like, though I think made up names are better with different limitations... just an example like.
Amiga- Best sound and graphics. Limited by game size (assuming theres 1 disk). Long load times.
Mega Drive- Blast Processing! Larger cart size than Amiga.
SNES- Good sound and graphics. Larger cart size. 3Dfx chip.

Oh and late joiners would be assigned one too, of course. To allow freedom of design maybe let people swap consoles if they both agree?

Edited by Dr. James MD

 
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AndyUK

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10th March, 2009 at 01:30:51 -

At the moment ive got one with less colours and one with no major limits at all which i need to fix. I need to find some flaw other than file size.

1.
GFX 3000 (home computer)

.Any screen size (no scrolling on 640x480 or more)
.as many objects as you like
.32 colours from a selection of your own choice
.256 colour static screen mode (for title screens and such)
.Mode 7, parallaxer, resize, rotate and layers allowed.
.Music can be Midi,Mod,OGG,MP3,WAV.
.2mb maximum game size (after compression)
.4mb game roms available (but only 16 colours!)
.supports key board or multi button controller.

2.
Game engine (for the retro game)
320x240 or 320x200
250 objects per frame
8 colours in mode 1 (normal pixel size)[]
16 colours in mode 2 (double pixel width)[ ]
(you can mix modes for status panels so long you keep within the same pallete)
1 layer only
Fixed palette -
Image
Music can be midi or mod (or chip tune sounding ogg,mp3,etc)
512kb maximum game size (after compression)

 
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10th March, 2009 at 02:40:09 -

whats the point in allowing mp3s on the GFX 3000 if the file size limit is 2-4mbs?

 
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AndyUK

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10th March, 2009 at 02:59:12 -

I don't really know. Well, anyway these aren't final.

Edited by AndyUK

 
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10th March, 2009 at 04:41:35 -

isn't the mmf runtime by itself around 300KB

 
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10th March, 2009 at 05:19:15 -

I didn't think about that. A MMF2 app is actually 402kb heh.
Ok any ideas for a more sensible limit?

I would like some suggestions.

 
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10th March, 2009 at 05:36:11 -

I like the file size limit. Just make it 402kb plus whatever since the MMF runtime is unavoidable.

Suggestions for limitations:

One system runs at 15 fps
Maximum 5 actives on screen at once
Screen size
Scrolling ("fake scrolling" only?)
Colours - fixed palette (like NES)
Colours - palette limited by number of colours (but can choose colours)
Colours - Monochrome?!?

I think music should be limited to mods at the most. I don't remember playing any games in the late eighties with mp3 soundtracks. If you really want to be strict, set a limit on the number of channels a mod can use.

Interested in this, but honestly I won't have time to enter.

 
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10th March, 2009 at 06:32:47 -

I like Nim's console. The monochrome idea is cool, maybe one console is monochrome but more powerful, whereas the other one is the flashy cool color console but is actually quite limited.


We should have a sub-contest to make commercials for the consoles that are used...



Edited by Neuro

 
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10th March, 2009 at 06:49:41 -


Originally Posted by Neuro
I like Nim's console. The monochrome idea is cool, maybe one console is monochrome but more powerful, whereas the other one is the flashy cool color console but is actually quite limited.


We should have a sub-contest to make commercials for the consoles that are used...



I was thinking along those lines too. One console has a very limited palette but is fast, the other has more colours but is limited in a lot of other ways.

How about a balance between scrolling and colours.

16 colours - can scroll within a limited area
64/256 colours - no scrolling for you

I love Neuro's idea of making commercials adverts for the consoles!

Edited by nim

 
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10th March, 2009 at 11:13:09 -

Nim's monochrome idea is intriguing, I'd like to have a faster system over a flashy system. I'd probably choose that, because I can't draw gfx that good, so monochrome is no trouble. And being faster can add way more gameplay elements.

Edited by Matthew Wiese

 
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10th March, 2009 at 17:57:06 -


Originally Posted by Nim
I like the file size limit. Just make it 402kb plus whatever since the MMF runtime is unavoidable.

Suggestions for limitations:

One system runs at 15 fps
Maximum 5 actives on screen at once
Screen size
Scrolling ("fake scrolling" only?)
Colours - fixed palette (like NES)
Colours - palette limited by number of colours (but can choose colours)
Colours - Monochrome?!?

I think music should be limited to mods at the most. I don't remember playing any games in the late eighties with mp3 soundtracks. If you really want to be strict, set a limit on the number of channels a mod can use.

Interested in this, but honestly I won't have time to enter.



Well, i like the idea about framerate limitations and scrolling. Some of the older home computers weren't designed specifically for games so they had to play at 20 frames per second because all sprites, sound, scrolling was handled by the processor alone. The ZX Spectrum being a good example.



 
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AndyUK

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10th March, 2009 at 17:58:34 -

Oh also i like the idea of a third, hand held console. Perhaps just based on one of the others with a smaller screen size and slightly better performance/colour?

 
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10th March, 2009 at 18:15:25 -

I am really keen on entering this compo, for sure!

 
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10th March, 2009 at 19:30:07 -

I want a fast system even if it has to be monochrome.

 
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10th March, 2009 at 19:37:45 -



This is an example of a game running on a machine released about the same time as the NES (Amstrad cpc). It's clearly more colourful but is a bit sluggish with scrolling and moving stuff about. Actually this game is probably a bad example because it scrolls really well and has a fairly fast framerate.
Skip to about 3:40 to see actual gameplay.



I'm sure everyone knows this game! Again on an Amstrad cpc. You'll notice the flicker and a bit of slowdown when too much is moving.



This time a port of Rtype on the MSX range of computers. Horribly chunky scrolling although the actual gameplay is pretty smooth.

 
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10th March, 2009 at 19:54:54 -

Good gravy I had no idea R-Type was ported to the MSX as well. The sound is quite close to the more truthful TurboGFX/Amiga ports but the music. My ears bleed

 
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10th March, 2009 at 22:56:13 -

Would we be allowed to use a mouse?


 
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10th March, 2009 at 23:11:13 -

Probably not, because older systems did not have a mouse, even new consoles do not. Unless you're talking about a very old personal computer.

 
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11th March, 2009 at 00:04:07 -

Loads of old computers and consoles had Mice

 
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11th March, 2009 at 00:12:11 -

Yea loads of old microcomputers and consoles did. It's just a few of the modern ones that don't. PS3 even uses them in a couple of games.

 
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11th March, 2009 at 00:36:24 -

SNES mouse anyone?

early to mid 90s is really my area of expertise but i might well make a contribution to this

 
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11th March, 2009 at 00:44:07 -

There were still some home computers still going strong in the mid 90's. Amiga, Atari st. Even the Spectrum and Commodore 64 lasted until 1993ish.

 
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11th March, 2009 at 01:49:02 -

Ok what about this?

1.
GFX 3000 (home computer)

.Any screen size (no scrolling on 640x480 or more)
.60fps = 16 objects in frame at once
.30fps = 32 objects at once
.15fps = 64 objects at once

.32 colours from a selection of your own choice
smooth scroll halves your pallete
chunky scroll (8 pixels at a time) if you want 32 colours

.256 colour static screen mode (for title screens and such)
.parallaxer, resize, rotate and layers allowed.
.Music can be Midi,Mod,OGG,MP3,WAV.
.8mb maximum game size (after compression Minus mmf runtime)
.supports key board, multi button controller, mouse or any other Peripheral you can think of.

2.
Game engine (for the retro game)

up to 60 frames per second
Smooth scroll
320x240 or 320x200
32 objects on screen at once
you can use flicker to get around the object limit.
8 colours in mode 1 (normal pixel size)[]
16 colours in mode 2 (double pixel width)[ ]
(you can mix modes for status panels so long you keep within the same pallete)
1 layer only
Fixed palette -
Image
Music can be midi or mod (or chip tune sounding ogg,mp3,etc)
1mb maximum game size (after compression minus MMF runtime.)

Game Engine portable

As above but

160x144 screen size
8 colours (from above palette)
Special monochrome mode that doubles on screen objects to 64

Edited by AndyUK

 
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11th March, 2009 at 15:09:31 -

Looks good to me. It would be very helpful if you could present the limitations in the form of a table: consoles on the top and the categories down the left.

Unfortunately this timing is the worst for me if you're planning to run the competition before April, but I'm looking forward to the results

 
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12th March, 2009 at 00:03:32 -

So if you have monochrome then you get double the objects?

 
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12th March, 2009 at 00:57:14 -

That's what it says. Yes.

 
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Fish20



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12th March, 2009 at 00:57:22 -

Please Don't make it random because in the real world the developers get to choose what system they want their games on.

Edited by Fish20

 
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Matthew Wiese

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12th March, 2009 at 01:08:35 -

I'm entering, I'd like to make a game for the Game Engine system. Is it ok if I start now?

 
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Matthew Wiese

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12th March, 2009 at 01:09:36 -

Also, if its monochrome, can I have any shade of gray? Or is it only black and white? (Wait, wouldn't that be black and white, not monchrome? : P)

 
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12th March, 2009 at 01:52:06 -

@Matthew Wiese, I was actually thinking along the lines of one colour + black. Also keep in mind monochrome only benefits you if you make a Game engine portable game.

nah Fish20 i wasn't going to make it random. I was just going to see what people choose. By all means start now.

 
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Knudde (Shab)

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12th March, 2009 at 03:19:22 -

Err, wouldn't MMF2's locked groups be a perfect fit for something like this? Make a locked group that contains the "errors" (nim's 5 sprites per screen for example), and let people follow the directions we can't actually control like that (Screen Res, sound, control).

 
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12th March, 2009 at 03:40:08 -

I wouldn't know how to do that kind of thing.

 
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12th March, 2009 at 11:19:40 -

I think what Shab means is that everyone builds his game using a source mfa file, which has a password protected group that nobody can edit. Although I don't think you can destroy random active objects like that.

Also I think it'd be better if you restrict the amount of people choosing the same console. It wouldn't be fun if 10 people pick console 2 and only 3 people make something for console 1.

 
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12th March, 2009 at 15:41:19 -

well then, first come first served!

 
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12th March, 2009 at 18:33:51 -


Originally Posted by Hernan
I think what Shab means is that everyone builds his game using a source mfa file, which has a password protected group that nobody can edit. Although I don't think you can destroy random active objects like that.

Also I think it'd be better if you restrict the amount of people choosing the same console. It wouldn't be fun if 10 people pick console 2 and only 3 people make something for console 1.



I know what he means, i just don't know how to code a limited amount of objects per screen. But hey I suck at coding.

I'm not really sure how to go about balancing It. I don't really want to try to force people to work with something they don't like.

 
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Marko

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12th March, 2009 at 19:20:24 -

Can we start then or what? And what are the rules again?? I got lost in all the banter....

 
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12th March, 2009 at 22:07:52 -

yeah go for it.
The rules are my Second large post.

Keep in mind you need to use this palette for Game engine games! Image

Oh I'll also be making some stuff. Perhaps for a kind demo given away with the console and computer. But they wont be counted towards the final scores.

 
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AndyUK

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14th March, 2009 at 19:24:13 -

Any progress made on any games?

 
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14th March, 2009 at 19:26:46 -

I'm a bit saddened that people want to enter this when there are prizes up for grabs at gamebuilders compo. Oh well, I guess people just like the console wars idea better.

Edited by Ricky

 
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AndyUK

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14th March, 2009 at 20:18:38 -

I don't want to take away your contestants. I thought it was fine since your competition is coming to an end.

 
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Dr. James MD

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14th March, 2009 at 20:42:10 -

This comp just sounds more fun IMO.

 
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14th March, 2009 at 20:43:46 -


Originally Posted by AndyUK
I don't want to take away your contestants. I thought it was fine since your competition is coming to an end.



Oh yeah, its fine. Sorry

 
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Fish20



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15th March, 2009 at 00:15:05 -

You should have a logo for each console that the competitors have to copy and paste
into their games.

Edited by Fish20

 
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15th March, 2009 at 01:05:47 -


Originally Posted by Fish20
You should have a logo for each console that the competitors have to copy and paste
into their games.



Or also let them make their own, like how Rare used to make fancy N64 logos.

 
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15th March, 2009 at 01:42:57 -

About object limitation-> Does it includes backdrops?
I mean, if I get an active object to create tiles wich doesn't count for objects, it would be a good way to make a decent platformer. But 20x15 means 300 tiles, so even 64 object wouldn't be enough if you count backdrops.

 
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15th March, 2009 at 03:29:04 -

oh um no backdrops don't count. Sorry for the confusion.

Basically any visible active object counts towards the limitation.



 
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15th March, 2009 at 12:35:22 -

Thanks for the answer
Some other questions before I get started:
1.Has a time limit been fixed for that compo yet? I might have missed it with all these posts.
2.Are the rules final. It seems so since you let people start, but the "Game engine" consol name makes me doubt cause it sounds kinda temporary in my opinion.

I don't care about the name BTW. I just want to be sure not to lose time making a logo wich won't be used if the name changes.

Edit-> I forgot to ask if the color limit was per object or whole frame? Both makes sence depending on if you want it to look 8-bit or 16-bit.

Edited by Spitznagl

 
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nim



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15th March, 2009 at 14:19:50 -

Andy, I suggest starting a new thread with the rules in the first post if you want people to notice this competition. It's a great idea and I wouldn't like to think that some people are put off by having to trawl through the rest of the thread trying to piece together the rules.

 
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AndyUK

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15th March, 2009 at 16:24:08 -

Well, I wanted more people to add ideas before I finalized the rules. So it's a properly democratic competition. It's only for fun so anyone can come up with ideas and I'll try to add them as best I can.

I'm actually making one or two demos to kinda show what the games would look like with the current limitations. so if people want to add idea please do.

@Spitznagl nah no time limit yet, I don't really think it's important to decide on that yet.
The names don't have to be final but I've kind of stuck with them for now to stop any confusion. At this point it's probably best to add features rather than add limits but it's still all open for change.
As the rules are now the colour limit is simply colours on screen at once. So pallete swapping can go on at run time. In fact I guess you should be able to have more than the limit in the actual frame at once so long as any single screen shot never goes over the limit.

Since the NES was so popular It's easy to forget there isn't a single 8bit look. 8bit machines could display thousands of colours so really thats not important. The colours can go anywhere.

 
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AndyUK

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16th March, 2009 at 18:00:26 -

Last chance to make any suggestions before everything is finalized!

 
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Spitznagl

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16th March, 2009 at 20:24:34 -

My sugestions
[1]The names: GFX 3000 sounds great for an old computer.
For the 8-bit consol, it coul be something like the DataBox Ultra. I don't really know, I mostly just like the "ultra" in it.

[2]A 16 colors limit for the 8-bit consol is alright, but let alone, it could lead to much too detailed graphics.
The NES also had a color limit of 4 colors per 8x8 sprite, one of them wich could be used for transparency (letting only 3 colors per sprites then). I think that it was 8 colors per 16x16 sprites for the snes.

It would be nice to had that limit for the results to feel even more true. If you like the idea that is.

 
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Mr G



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16th March, 2009 at 20:29:15 -

Please open a new thread with all the rules/regulations for this compo mentioned clearly

I haven't read all the latest posts so I don't know what we have to make

 
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16th March, 2009 at 20:50:54 -

I am of the same thinking as Mr. Green

 
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Spitznagl

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16th March, 2009 at 21:05:06 -

It has been asked before.
He's probably waiting after the final suggestions so that the first post of the new thread can be the official rules.

 
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AndyUK

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17th March, 2009 at 02:54:49 -

Yeah thats pretty much exactly what I said.

Spitznagl, These aren't actually supposed to be strictly 8-bit. I don't know about everyone else but i would like to stay away from the NES because its been done to death already. Most other popular 8-bit computers/consoles had bigger palletes.

Edited by AndyUK

 
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