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Fanotherpg

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7th January, 2011 at 11:36:29 -

PSP Os is copyrighted and to run homebrew applications you need to hack the os - what is illegal.

 
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aphant



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7th January, 2011 at 12:01:41 -

Hacking a PSP is not illegal. It's a civil case.
Reverse-engineering a compiler for the PSP and distributing it is also not illegal. Once again, it's a civil case.
Selling the compiler, or otherwise profitting from it, would be illegal.

Your mileage for these definitions will vary depending on where you live. Civil and criminal law are different between the U.S. and the U.K.

 

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8th January, 2011 at 02:08:22 -


Originally Posted by aphant
Hacking a PSP is not illegal. It's a civil case.
Reverse-engineering a compiler for the PSP and distributing it is also not illegal. Once again, it's a civil case.
Selling the compiler, or otherwise profitting from it, would be illegal.

Your mileage for these definitions will vary depending on where you live. Civil and criminal law are different between the U.S. and the U.K.



done and done.

think of it as a mattress. once you buy it, you can rip off whatever tags you want and put whatever sheets you want on it. not illegal. however, stealing pillows for your new mattress is.

 
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HorrendousGames

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8th January, 2011 at 06:19:07 -

And always remember, mattresses aren't as comfortable without the box springs. You can go with the slats, however, if that is an option. You can't go wrong with a mattress pad, although they are a pain in the ass when you need to change your sheets.

 
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8th January, 2011 at 15:26:35 -


Originally Posted by HorrendousGames
they are a pain in the ass when you need to change your sheets.



That is THE truth. They make sheets a pain even when you don't have to change them! Not that sheets aren't already a pain to begin with.

On the subject of the decompiler: It's a tough case for YoYo. It might be their fault for not including heavier encryption, but isn't it the second best thing they can do to stop it now? I'm glad I'm not in that mess. I feel kind of sorry for them.

Why was the decompiler made?

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

Phredreeke

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8th January, 2011 at 17:33:11 -

On the subject of the decompiler: It's a tough case for YoYo. It might be their fault for not including heavier encryption, but isn't it the second best thing they can do to stop it now?

In a worst case scenario the original "decompiler" programmers will be seen as martyrs and more people will "join the cause". In a best case scenario the programmers cease developing and distributing the software, but it will still be available from other places.

One might argue they should hire the people behind the "decompiler" as testers for their next version

Why was the decompiler made?

I can think of two legit reasons why the decompiler was made: 1. someone lost the source to their game and wanted to "recover it". 2. to show that it can be done and YoYo needs to fix it.

 
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -

Make some more box arts damnit!
http://create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=285363

GamesterXIII



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8th January, 2011 at 18:36:08 -


Originally Posted by Ricky
FACTS

.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Directive



 
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Jenswa

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8th January, 2011 at 19:20:49 -

Mumble something about Acclaim and Sega ...

Piracy on the PSP isn't okay, homebrew falls into a different category (or not) but actually it isn't okay either. Because you can create a great homebrew game, just like any commercial title (well maybe not any, but it's certainly possible to get a decent quality title) and sell copies of that title. Et voila you can publish a title on a Sony PSP without Sony, ouch that hurts.


 
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Silveraura

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8th January, 2011 at 20:10:10 -


Originally Posted by Fanotherpg
Pirating software is illegal, as well as using illegal stuff is illegal. So to get homebrew stuff on PSP you have to hack (flash) PSP OS which is illegal (not OK with Sony Agreement) and we can add to it that they use that presentation (running on hacked PSP) to make a hype around PSP exporter which increases sale, which is illegal procedure - using hacked software to get revenue from it.



If you buy a device, I don't care who or what says I can't do it, I'm legally allowed to do it. In fact, a court case presented by Apple to attempt to sue people for hacking their iPhones, was recently thrown out because it's absurd.
You sell me a physical piece of hardware and I'll do whatever I damn well please with it. If you catch me trying to hack someone else's devices, that's different for obvious reasons, same with illegally installing pirated software.
These are all logical exceptions, but to tell me I'm not allowed to hack my own device is absurd and I wont let anyone tell me it's illegal. When I paid over $200 for something, it's mine, I don't care. I physically own the device and you can't tell me how to physically interact with it's internal parts, electronically or not. Get out of my life.

 
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Phredreeke

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8th January, 2011 at 20:20:13 -


Originally Posted by Jenswa
Piracy on the PSP isn't okay, homebrew falls into a different category (or not) but actually it isn't okay either. Because you can create a great homebrew game, just like any commercial title (well maybe not any, but it's certainly possible to get a decent quality title) and sell copies of that title. Et voila you can publish a title on a Sony PSP without Sony, ouch that hurts.



Good luck with that!

- The game wouldn't run on an off-the-shelf PSP. (actually, this point might be invalid due to PS3 hackers calculating Sony's private key, if Sony is using the same key for PSP software that is)
- Since you are bypassing the PSP's security system, there's nothing stopping other people from copying your game.
- No retailer would touch it with a ten foot pole out of fear of retaliation from licensed distributors.

 
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -

Make some more box arts damnit!
http://create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=285363

GamesterXIII



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9th January, 2011 at 01:31:05 -


Originally Posted by SiLVERFIRE

Originally Posted by Fanotherpg
Pirating software is illegal, as well as using illegal stuff is illegal. So to get homebrew stuff on PSP you have to hack (flash) PSP OS which is illegal (not OK with Sony Agreement) and we can add to it that they use that presentation (running on hacked PSP) to make a hype around PSP exporter which increases sale, which is illegal procedure - using hacked software to get revenue from it.



If you buy a device, I don't care who or what says I can't do it, I'm legally allowed to do it. In fact, a court case presented by Apple to attempt to sue people for hacking their iPhones, was recently thrown out because it's absurd.
You sell me a physical piece of hardware and I'll do whatever I damn well please with it. If you catch me trying to hack someone else's devices, that's different for obvious reasons, same with illegally installing pirated software.
These are all logical exceptions, but to tell me I'm not allowed to hack my own device is absurd and I wont let anyone tell me it's illegal. When I paid over $200 for something, it's mine, I don't care. I physically own the device and you can't tell me how to physically interact with it's internal parts, electronically or not. Get out of my life.



Did you not read the thread?

Apple devices have a specific exclusion under the DMCA in the US. I'm not sure how it works in other countries.

Jailbreaking "your" non-apple device is still illegal.

 
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Fanotherpg

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9th January, 2011 at 11:00:51 -

Silverfire like you are stating - you are buying the hardware (!) not OS, and yes you can do with hardware whatever you want, but hacking OS is illegal, because for it you've got seperate contract (OS Licence) and it's not getting into your life it's only about being fair to others. It's like someone would buy your game, and decompile it then do anything what they want with source and for example after some time tried to get income from it, would it be fair against you?

And why decompiler was created? Because at Clickteam we are given the exporter and we are decided whether we try to put game on iPhone, or Flash or whatsoever, whereas at Yoyo Games, they own exporters as company, and they decide who would be published and where and to who, and when.

 
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Jenswa

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9th January, 2011 at 11:48:27 -


Originally Posted by PhizzyPhan69

Originally Posted by Jenswa
Piracy on the PSP isn't okay, homebrew falls into a different category (or not) but actually it isn't okay either. Because you can create a great homebrew game, just like any commercial title (well maybe not any, but it's certainly possible to get a decent quality title) and sell copies of that title. Et voila you can publish a title on a Sony PSP without Sony, ouch that hurts.



Good luck with that!

- The game wouldn't run on an off-the-shelf PSP. (actually, this point might be invalid due to PS3 hackers calculating Sony's private key, if Sony is using the same key for PSP software that is)
- Since you are bypassing the PSP's security system, there's nothing stopping other people from copying your game.
- No retailer would touch it with a ten foot pole out of fear of retaliation from licensed distributors.



Not that I am going to try it, but you could implement serial keys and all other sorts of drm into your game and distribution can be done over the internet. Who needs retailers? Everyone is a producer and everyone is a consumer. The nice instruction booklets can be distributed with the product as a convenient pdf document which the consumer can print himself.

O and sorry, it wasn't Acclaim, but Accolade vs Sega.

It seems that it's all about control or should I say power? Perhaps rights is a better way to describe the problem. With the product from Clickteam you can do with your game what you like. But with GM not. However getting into the AppStore is a bit different because Apple decides whether your game is authorized or not for sale. But with Flash you can decide it, just like the Android.

Getting onto devices is becoming even easier with the browser enabled devices and decent browser based games. No need for an AppStore, just write your game in html5 with canvas and javascript and publish it on your site. Works the same for Android or perhaps the PSP or NDS even the Wii works with their Opera browser. But you might be lacking the raw power which one could otherwise claim from the device.

 
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Phredreeke

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9th January, 2011 at 13:49:23 -

So what if you implement serial keys? You can't verify that the serial key isn't already in use unless you require the PSP to be connected to the internet while playing (yeah right, that will surely be popular on a handheld console!)

 
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -

Make some more box arts damnit!
http://create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=285363

Jenswa

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9th January, 2011 at 18:39:24 -

O that's a great idea!

The game won't run without internet and if it runs with internet it checks the serial key

I was actually going to port steam for the psp and use that as distributor because it comes with drm and money transfer services

Ow how I love sarcasm

You want to be the hacker then let me be the protector.

 
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