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MasterM



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27th December, 2010 at 02:40:08 -

I believe that right now it is a great time for indy game makers. Let's take a look at what game making used to be like and eventually turned into:

Back in the 80s we got a lot of teams that were just TWO mates who spent their time coding, eating pizza and probably drinking Coke/Mountain Dew.
See it was just a few guys who could make a FULL game. That way we got games like Kings Quest or Space Quest.

Anyone could do something!

Nowadays it is big studios. Making a game is way more expensive than making a big hollywood blockbuster. As a single person you can not compete anymore.

But
we are also back at scoring big if it is just YOU and a friend who share the same passion.

I believe with creating games for the iphone, android or even XBox Live/PS3/Wii all you need is an interesting idea and you can go really big.

It is amazing how much power indy game makers suddenly gained. Sure there will be always space for great ideas but I believe cell phone games for example will get more and more advanced again and in the future it will once again be big studios working on titles.

Image

for example super meat boy is getting a lot of love recently. just look at this graphic. it looks SHIT! i believe that more than 80% of the users on the DC could have done this graphic. overall it looks like ANY FLASH ANIMATION i could find on newgrounds. seriously anyone could open up Adobe Flash and fart this graphic out of their ass but it doesn't matter...does it?
no because the game is fun (according to what I have read). it got a nice engine and OK graphics - a lot of people on here could have done this game I believe - graphic and programming wise.

so what the hell are you even trying to say?
well i guess we have a lot of skilled people on here and currently we have a lot of platforms to code for. it will be amazing once clickteam released their exporter for iphone and android. i believe a lot of little companies will be popping up just like mushrooms creating games for phones. a lot of new MMF users - probably more support for clickteam ONCE people find out about those exporters (it's still such an unknown product).

it could be a digital revolution

 
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Edron



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27th December, 2010 at 05:21:50 -

you are very prejudiced, sir. the same people have said of conceptual art and the like.
but its good youre enthusiastic i guess.

 
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GamesterXIII



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27th December, 2010 at 05:35:20 -

Making money with indie games is all about luck and being involved in the right communities, but there does seem to be a lot of support for indie titles lately.

Most of the indie games that have made it big so far are either mediocre or straight up garbage. Why do people like that awful "IWBTG" trash ?

SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy. They did include jumper as a character though . . . big deal lol. Everything about the game is unoriginal and simple, yet many reviews claim for it to be "one of the best platformers ever." Not in a million years and it still doesn't compare to many games made 10 years ago.



Edited by GamesterXIII

 
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Silveraura

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27th December, 2010 at 05:40:28 -

The problem isn't so much the users so much as I believe it could have a lot to do with the software. Trust me, I stick my neck out for MMF2 every chance I get because I truly believe it's a fantastic and underestimated piece of software and the limitations of what it can do are truly up to you, as long as you work. I can't even really think of a good example of something you can't do, without risking someone coming up and saying that they can do it. Not sure how reasonable their method would be, but it's possible. So we have a fantastic piece of software here under our belt.
The problem comes in however, in the result of exporting.
It seems to me as though no matter what we get, theres always going to be some sort of limitation in terms of the final product in terms of efficiency in how it accomplished what it accomplished, even though it managed to accomplish it. Our software though impressive and incredibly flexible, is facing the an issue I informally consider the bandage issue. You basically have something great, and in order to keep it great, you keep bandaging it up and fixing it up, and as a result... the end product becomes more bandages then product and quickly diminishes in quality.

Fortunately though, the foundation for which Multimedia Fusion 2 sits upon, is very logical and very true to real programing in how you manage to get stuff done, which is the single biggest reason it's as flexible as it is, despite how easy it is to use. So it's incredibly simple for anyone capable of establishing a programming language, to actually jump ship and program. MMF2 has primed them up and basically trained them how to talk to a computer and get stuff done (for the most part).

With that said, from the bits and pieces I read in your post, MasterM, I'd have to agree. This is an excellent time for indie gaming, however if you plan to get bigger, you should really consider expanding outside of MMF2 and Clickteam and start considering other options. Indie gaming has kind of forged a sort of big league of it's own, and unfortunately even MMF2 might have a difficult time making it to said big leagues.
Trust me, I hope I'm wrong. I really do, because I can't say I've been too willing for too long to experiment with programing languages outside of working with MMF2, so I hope theres still a chance. But from the looks of things, it seems too easy to do for it not to be done already, if it were truly possible.

Edited by Silveraura

 
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HorrendousGames

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27th December, 2010 at 06:44:33 -

You're all right. Software has really helped out with everything. It kind of does urk me that some of the lamer games do really well, although there is tons of garbage indie games out there, as anyone can call themselves an independent. On XBLIG, the highest grossing game of 2009 was I made a game with zombies, which honestly isn't all that bad, but it's nothing special, and that guy has probably made over $150,000 from it, at least by the statistics from 2009, not sure how well it did this year, though I know it's still selling copies, so it might as well be over $200,000. The next game down the list was "Avatar Drop", and the fact that almost just as many people spent money on it pretty much sums up the intelligence level of the Xbox 360 audience. A programmer I worked with made a game based on the "lol cats" website, but eventually had to take it down due to using copy written images, he could've kept it up but he's the lazy cut corners type of programmers, so he didn't pursue the getting the rights option. He made over $3,000 for the few days it was up, to compare, my game, "Sniper Defense" has only made around that much for being on a quarter of a year, which is actually considered to be decent. Another programmer I worked with made 2 games and didn't see anything from it (you have to make at least $150 for Microsoft to pay you anything), which is actually quite a strange anomaly, since most developers actually make at least something for their work. But most of all if you want to sell something on XBLIG, the gameplay has to be simple and familiar, and your title has to be something catchy, and you're pretty much guaranteed to sell a butt load of copies if you paste a picture of a hot girl on the cover (check out Silver Dollar Games). Making money with games does have a lot to do with luck, but it also has to do with catering to your audience, and since most indie developers will do something that they enjoy, most of the time you'll kick out that marketable aspect. Not to say that those types of games can be marketable, or are.

 
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GamesterXIII



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27th December, 2010 at 14:11:15 -

Filling niches = profit.


Originally Posted by SiLVERFIRE
The problem isn't so much the users so much as I believe it could have a lot to do with the software. Trust me, I stick my neck out for MMF2 every chance I get because I truly believe it's a fantastic and underestimated piece of software and the limitations of what it can do are truly up to you, as long as you work. I can't even really think of a good example of something you can't do, without risking someone coming up and saying that they can do it. Not sure how reasonable their method would be, but it's possible. So we have a fantastic piece of software here under our belt.
The problem comes in however, in the result of exporting.
It seems to me as though no matter what we get, theres always going to be some sort of limitation in terms of the final product in terms of efficiency in how it accomplished what it accomplished, even though it managed to accomplish it. Our software though impressive and incredibly flexible, is facing the an issue I informally consider the bandage issue. You basically have something great, and in order to keep it great, you keep bandaging it up and fixing it up, and as a result... the end product becomes more bandages then product and quickly diminishes in quality.

Fortunately though, the foundation for which Multimedia Fusion 2 sits upon, is very logical and very true to real programing in how you manage to get stuff done, which is the single biggest reason it's as flexible as it is, despite how easy it is to use. So it's incredibly simple for anyone capable of establishing a programming language, to actually jump ship and program. MMF2 has primed them up and basically trained them how to talk to a computer and get stuff done (for the most part).

With that said, from the bits and pieces I read in your post, MasterM, I'd have to agree. This is an excellent time for indie gaming, however if you plan to get bigger, you should really consider expanding outside of MMF2 and Clickteam and start considering other options. Indie gaming has kind of forged a sort of big league of it's own, and unfortunately even MMF2 might have a difficult time making it to said big leagues.
Trust me, I hope I'm wrong. I really do, because I can't say I've been too willing for too long to experiment with programing languages outside of working with MMF2, so I hope theres still a chance. But from the looks of things, it seems too easy to do for it not to be done already, if it were truly possible.



Pretty much everyone that has switched from MMF2 to programming or a different development tool has stated that you have to be ass-backwards to get anything done in MMF2. =/

 
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Hayo

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27th December, 2010 at 14:56:47 -

I actually fully agree with this thread. Old times are coming BACK in a new way and that is a real GOOD thing. We can actually enjoy our hobby AND make money at the same time, like, REALLY GET FILTHY RICH. Even with total bullshit. Let us consider the following: I perceive, I said, that you are vastly amused at having plunged me into such a hopeless discussion; but now hear the parable, and then you will be still more amused at the meagreness of my imagination: for the manner in which the best men are treated in their own States is so grievous that no single thing on earth is comparable to it; and therefore, if I am to plead their cause, I must have recourse to fiction, and put together a figure made up of many things, like the fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering --every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer, though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard, and having first chained up the noble captain's senses with drink or some narcotic drug, they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain's hands into their own whether by force or persuasion, they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer's art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing? That said, let us make some great crappy indie games and make money with it!

 
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The Chris Street

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27th December, 2010 at 15:06:18 -

Awesome thread, and one that I fully agree with (so far).

It's a good time to be an MMF user. Once the iPhone (and maybe XNA) runtimes are released, I think Klik gaming is going to explode through the roof and Clickteam finally gets the sales and publicity it so fully deserves.

 
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Hagar

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27th December, 2010 at 15:37:23 -

I could not agree more with this thread, and Hayo's point in particular. Many times I have contemplated retiring from my profits from the click world. Unfortunately my total net earnings are as follows:

Net assets (approximate TGF and MMF2 cost) (150).
Labour @ 12 pounds ph
8 hours per week x 52 weeks x 10 years = (49,920)
Total sales 0
Total net income (50,070)
n.b all units are pounds.

In balance sheets a negative number is shown in brackets, not sure why. National Liberal would be so proud of such a discussion, involving business and the alike.

I could not help but think that Hayo's point about "fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures" is of particular importance in this day and age of game making. Many times we forget that we are indeed goats or stags and get caught up in hum drum of farting out games (or faecal matter for that matter) that we forget the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is that this is Chewbbaca :
Image
Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!


 
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Jon C-B

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27th December, 2010 at 19:36:22 -


Originally Posted by GamesterXIII


SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy.


I dont think SMB gets old in 20 seconds. The problem with games now is that pretty much every style has been done. If you make a platformer shooter it'll automatically be labeled as a "Cave Story/Metroid Remake". Im sure that jumper isnt the only game out there with the same type of gameplay as Super Meat Boy, it could have copied off of something else.

 
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Hayo

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27th December, 2010 at 20:09:53 -

Guys guys GUYS! I almost got a motherhumping heart attack here! "SMB"?? You can't do that!

 
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GamesterXIII



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28th December, 2010 at 03:24:40 -


Originally Posted by Jon C-B

Originally Posted by GamesterXIII


SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy.


I dont think SMB gets old in 20 seconds. The problem with games now is that pretty much every style has been done. If you make a platformer shooter it'll automatically be labeled as a "Cave Story/Metroid Remake". Im sure that jumper isnt the only game out there with the same type of gameplay as Super Meat Boy, it could have copied off of something else.



Jumper may not have started the trend (i'm not sure), but SMB was definitely heavily (cannot express this enough) influenced by it.

 
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markno2



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28th December, 2010 at 04:51:10 -


Originally Posted by GamesterXIII

Originally Posted by Jon C-B

Originally Posted by GamesterXIII


SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy.


I dont think SMB gets old in 20 seconds. The problem with games now is that pretty much every style has been done. If you make a platformer shooter it'll automatically be labeled as a "Cave Story/Metroid Remake". Im sure that jumper isnt the only game out there with the same type of gameplay as Super Meat Boy, it could have copied off of something else.



Jumper may not have started the trend (i'm not sure), but SMB was definitely heavily (cannot express this enough) influenced by it.



Jumper's engine didn't suck, unlike SMB's.

 
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aphant



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28th December, 2010 at 05:25:33 -


Originally Posted by marky_2

Originally Posted by GamesterXIII

Originally Posted by Jon C-B

Originally Posted by GamesterXIII


SMB copied an old gamemaker game called Jumper. They claim to not have copied it which is a humongous lie. Jumper was actually fun and the charm didn't wear off after 20 seconds like it does in super meat boy.


I dont think SMB gets old in 20 seconds. The problem with games now is that pretty much every style has been done. If you make a platformer shooter it'll automatically be labeled as a "Cave Story/Metroid Remake". Im sure that jumper isnt the only game out there with the same type of gameplay as Super Meat Boy, it could have copied off of something else.



Jumper may not have started the trend (i'm not sure), but SMB was definitely heavily (cannot express this enough) influenced by it.



Jumper's engine didn't suck, unlike SMB's.



I hear it works perfectly fine in the superior Steam version.

 

GamesterXIII



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28th December, 2010 at 05:52:09 -

The physics are really dumb in SMB.

Jumper did have a much better engine and more creative levels.

 
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