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falkon



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7th March, 2009 at 00:03:07 -

A couple of weeks ago i got an ibook off of eBay for $301.15. Not the greatest ibook but an ibook none the less. My reason for buying this ibook was so i could code for the iphone. A developing field were you can make a lot of money .

So i got it, but oh wait, it came with panther when the description listed tiger (maybe a reprieve for me) so i forked over another $80 (again eBay) to buy leopard, thinking I'll make this up in a couple of weeks.

Then i try to install the SDK and it didn't install any of the i-phone developing stuff.

So i go to the apple site and read the fine print. Apparently one has to have an intel based mac. Mine wasn't, i had a powerpc G4. So now I'm thinking why would apple be dum enough to not support its older products that indie developers, who legally cant have a job yet, have enough cash to buy...
So i read articles about it and figured out their was a way to do it, but it wouldnt compile into an iphone application. So now i have a crappy mac that can't do anything I want it to do.


Hopefully, Hopefully, i will be able to get ebay or just the guy who sold it to me to refund me because the mac was not as described in the description. Then ill be sure to buy a cheap mac with an intel based processor.

Or i need $500-1,000 to buy a mac with an intel processor (donations gladly accepted )

End of rant

And i know i am really pretty poor. I would have gladly bought a brand new macbook, but without a job it is kinda hard to work up 1,000 dollars.

 
Originally Posted by RickyG
Sure just like you can steal tic tacs from a 7-11. No one will catch you, except for God.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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7th March, 2009 at 00:13:00 -

First: Indie game makers are not necessarily minors.

Second, supporting powerpc architecture now that the transition to intel has been made would be stupid and a waste of money. Especially considering we're talking about APPLE, the king of dropping support for old products.

Third, is it not as described? How was the ebay guy supposed to know? You will not be able to return it unless the seller told you explicitly that you could make iPhone apps with it.

Make sure you read the fine print FIRST.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

falkon



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7th March, 2009 at 00:20:34 -

It wasnt as described he said that it had tiger, but when it came, it had panther.

Heres the ad
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Ibook-G4-1-07-GHZ-With-EXTRAS_W0QQitemZ250374225679QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item250374225679&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Im going to say that having panther caused many software issues that wouldnt have been apparent if Tiger had been installed. This is actually true i coudlnt install the latest versions of safari, Itunes, and Flash player, and some games i wanted to install.

 
Originally Posted by RickyG
Sure just like you can steal tic tacs from a 7-11. No one will catch you, except for God.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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7th March, 2009 at 00:26:19 -

Well, I wish you luck. I never got my money back once when I complained that something I bought was fraudulent, which blows the OS claim out of the water.

You have Tiger now, so in the grand scheme of things, that's a nil claim. It's not the ebay dude's fault. Maybe he's a nice understanding dude, but I doubt it.

Do you even have experience coding outside of MMF2? O_o Seems you should know how to use Obective-C at least before investing money in something like this...

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

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7th March, 2009 at 00:31:25 -

Hmm... I can't help you there. But, Burger King hires people as young as 14 as long as it isn't against state law.

As OldManClayton said, it's a waste of money to support older technologies, and considering that this is a mixed economy (mostly free-market) here in the U.S., it only makes sense that any business would want to make as much money as possible. In addition, it shouldn't be expected that a company would support something as old as this, and not to sound rude or mean or anything, but it might have been helpful to read the requirements before you bought the computer.

I wish I had a laptop.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 00:33:26 -

Save! That's what I did. It was well worth the long.... long... long wait.

 

  		
  		

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7th March, 2009 at 00:51:43 -

Heh, should have done some researching! iBooks are hella old now. The PPC architecture was phased out of Macs years back too. You could always get a cheap last gen Macbook or Mac Mini, on eBay here they're about 300, about half the price of a new one. Personally I don't think you'll get your money back just because it came with a different OS.
Also if you're a student you can get discounts via the Apple website.

I gotta say though the new Macbooks are bootiful things. I got one back when the new ones launched and it's an amazing machine for such a thin 13" design.

Edited by Dr. James MD

 
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7th March, 2009 at 00:54:24 -

I was actually going to recommend a mac mini... I don't have one and am not personally an apple fan, but they're half the price of mac laptops and are great little all-purpose machines.

 

  		
  		

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7th March, 2009 at 01:07:05 -

They have the same spec as the Macbook, you just need your own display, keyboard and mouse. Thinking that if my iMac ever conks out (never had a PC or Mac actually break on me yet ) then I'll replace it with a Mac Mini since it'll be mostly used as an iTunes and file server.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 01:13:35 -

i would recommend getting as far away from mac development as possible. if you want to develop ON the mac fine. just dont develop for apple. and no, its been discussed round n round about the money you make on developing iphone apps, and unless for some reason your app gets noticed out of the tons of shite submitted you are hardly going to even make up for buying that computer you bought JUST to develop for it.

and why would you think indie developers are minors? most of us here HAVE jobs, and develop in our free time, some of us for money. if anything the majority of indie developers ARE old enough to have jobs and probably DO.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 01:22:05 -

sorry about the comment about indie developers i wasnt thinking to straight

 
Originally Posted by RickyG
Sure just like you can steal tic tacs from a 7-11. No one will catch you, except for God.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

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7th March, 2009 at 01:23:01 -


Originally Posted by Cecil
i would recommend getting as far away from mac development as possible.



Oh I don't know about that.
http://blog.wolfire.com/2008/12/why-you-should-support-mac-os-x-and-linux/

 
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7th March, 2009 at 01:30:20 -

lol hogwash. I think he was talking about Apple policy anyway.

 

  		
  		

falkon



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7th March, 2009 at 01:31:03 -

Oh and @ OMC
I know a couple of coding languages

I know basic aspects of
C++
batch
At one time i learned actionscript
and Visual basic

So objective C shouldn't be to difficult.


 
Originally Posted by RickyG
Sure just like you can steal tic tacs from a 7-11. No one will catch you, except for God.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

OMC

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7th March, 2009 at 01:34:21 -


Originally Posted by falkon
Oh and @ OMC
I know a couple of coding languages

I know basic aspects of
C++
batch
At one time i learned actionscript
and Visual basic

So objective C shouldn't be to difficult.



Awesome.

On a side note-- if you do get a mac mini, remember that the first generation had a G4 CPU. So don't just buy the cheapest one.

 

  		
  		

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7th March, 2009 at 01:57:05 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
lol hogwash. I think he was talking about Apple policy anyway.



exactly. i wasnt coming from a marketing point of view. obviously theres great advantages, very well written in that blog, by people i respect and support over at the wolfire team. but market and userbase expansion is hardly worth it to me to develop on an entirely new system, especially when said system is so self absorbed, and limited as such in so many ways.

and come to think of it, i wouldnt be surprised if apple went under or switches entirely to digital media if our economy doesnt shape up soon. the only thing they really have going for them is the itunes/ipod/iphone and the appstore.

i read once that "everything microsoft touches becomes hopelessly complicated", yet they have some of the best developer kits for a single system in terms of power. porting is always a pain unless you start out using a crossplatform library, when so much has to be rewritten to support a different system.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 11:58:50 -

Don't just pull things out of thin air
First off, before the recession really took hold their profits were up (they're always up) - http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/10/21/notes_of_interest_for_apples_q4_2008_results_call.html
They're also the 4th most selling computer manufacturer, down from 3rd though (since Q3 200 - http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/14/apples-us-market-share-growth-slows-in-4q-2008/

Sorry it's just a very silly thing to say, like how a few years ago people would say Nintendo are going to go under for X, Y stupid reasons (despite them always making a profit too). Apple hardware is still the choice for many educational institutions, design and production studios. Until that changes, until they sell off their range of pro apps they won't be going under. Oh and if home sales completely evapourate too.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 19:43:25 -

i pulled nothing out of thin air james. i stated no facts. i had an opinion.

and i dont look at sales, or profits. all that means is that people are paying for something i find unworthy of my money or anyones money. and if i could restate, i "hope" they go under, or switch over entirely to digital.

i have had nothing but bad experience with mac, have heard nothing remotely close to decent customer service, or customer/tech support, they are extremely overpriced (and dont give me they are just as expensive as some high end pc counterparts because those computers are just as expensive and outlandishly priced. i can build computers more powerful for a lot less than a mac), they have a lack of software because of a lack of a large enough userbase.

all the reasons given to develop FOR apple does not outweigh the reasons to NOT in my opinion.

dont get me wrong i hate microsoft just as much as apple for some of the same reasons and reasons completely opposite of those for apple. they have better developing tools though, a larger user and customer base, and support. the lesser of two evils.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 21:43:52 -


Originally Posted by Cecil

i have had nothing but bad experience with mac, have heard nothing remotely close to decent customer service, or customer/tech support, they are extremely overpriced (and dont give me they are just as expensive as some high end pc counterparts because those computers are just as expensive and outlandishly priced. i can build computers more powerful for a lot less than a mac), they have a lack of software because of a lack of a large enough userbase.


Bad customer service? These are people that;
-replace a whole computer if there is a single dead pixel, only Nintendo and 'pro' hardware manufacturers have similar offers.
-if a device fails and needs repairing 3 times then it is replaced with a new equivalent.
-in warranty will even replace a broken product if you broke it on accident (case in point: my brother dropped his iPod and told Apple. was sent a new one, no new box though just a swap in a DHL box.)
Personally I've never had a problem with any of Apple hardware, never a dead pixel or fault. Can't say the same about my homebuilt and Dell computers .
And http://www.itnews.com.au/News/NewsStory.aspx?story=97584
Aaaand they do lack software. Kind of. It's that old Quantity/Quality thing. There isn't a free FTP on Windows as good as Cyberduck on OSX, there isn't a pro photo app as good as Aperture. Photoshop runs better on OSX than Windows. There simply isn't a music software suite as good as Garageband on Windows for 60 (with 5 other apps). Honourable mentions to Logic/Final Cut.

I just think it's a daft thing to tell somebody not to get into iPhone or OSX development when there's clearly a huge market out there that a lot of people are making a lot of money out of.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 22:04:59 -

Apple customer support is poo. (Not that any other is better, but there are still hoops)

And the whole arrogant feel of the retail store really pushes me away. The fact that you need an appointment is REDONKULOUS.

But I don't have an opinion one way or another about developing for it. All the more sales, all the better! I just don't personally like apple's attitudes.

 

  		
  		

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7th March, 2009 at 22:24:58 -

I really can't stand apple anymore, we only ever used the macs at uni for the internet and to mess around on photobooth or w/e. The rest of the animation work was done on the PCs. Itunes is by no means user friendly, way too many options small buttons all over the place and syncing up to my Ipod touch/updating it is a pain in the neck. And I'm sick of the Iphone adverts on TV.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 22:55:48 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
I just don't personally like apple's attitudes.


Me too.

Edited by Ricky

 
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7th March, 2009 at 23:21:22 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Apple customer support is poo. (Not that any other is better, but there are still hoops)



By far the best are Dell. At least in the UK.
Apple replacing an accidentally broke 250 iPod is one thing, but replacing a 400 monitor and giving me the newest model is another.

 
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7th March, 2009 at 23:58:44 -

"Personally I've never had a problem with any of Apple hardware, never a dead pixel or fault. Can't say the same about my homebuilt and Dell computers . "

quite the opposite for me and my sisters computers. both got a laptop around the same time. both for about the same price. mine was dell, hers a macbook.

her mac is currently dying and mine is still in tip top shape, 2 years old. and having to get something repaired 3 times to get a new one? thats rediculous. dell sent me a new disc drive overnight after a short troubleshoot. you have to go deal with customer service at an apple store and wait to get it repaired. no thank you. and yes all the stories i've heard include attitude from the customer service workers. dell, although theyre customer support is outsourced and in india and i cant understand anything theyre saying, they have been nothing but polite and done everything they could.

i can understand all the arguments for apple, especially if you own apple stuff, but i strongly disagree.

 
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8th March, 2009 at 00:08:05 -


Originally Posted by Cecil
and having to get something repaired 3 times to get a new one? thats ridiculous.



Not really. This also goes back to old machines, they still replace iBooks with newer MacBooks. A friend who does graphics for a record label had his PowerMac G5 break 3 times - got a brand spanking new Mac Pro. As I said before Dell have a similar policy but if the product is too old then you either get a voucher towards a new one or a refurb. So IMO that's kind of above the call of duty.
Was hoping my 2004 Powerbook would give in (though 12" PB's are replaced with 13" Macbooks, not Pro) but it's not aged since I bought it.

 
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8th March, 2009 at 10:54:45 -


Originally Posted by Dr. James

Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Apple customer support is poo. (Not that any other is better, but there are still hoops)



By far the best are Dell. At least in the UK.
Apple replacing an accidentally broke 250 iPod is one thing, but replacing a 400 monitor and giving me the newest model is another.



Uh, what? Dell are terrible. They advertise custom laptops in custom colours then send an email literally on the day we were expecting it to arrive, saying they dont have enough parts and the order was delayed by two months. Not really good service IMO.

 
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8th March, 2009 at 15:04:35 -

And how can you call a single company the best unless you've tried EVERY one out there

I personally tend to sort stuff out myself avoiding companies like Dell etc.

 
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8th March, 2009 at 17:27:12 -

I just give my computer to my dad he's pretty good with computers.

 
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8th March, 2009 at 17:56:54 -

Well, a lot (if not most) of us can fix most everyday problems-- but how many of you would rather fix an ipod screen yourself instead of sending it in for repair or replacement? Same with laptop screens and other finicky hardware. Sure, you can buy a replacement laptop mobo, pry everything apart and put it back together, but if the laptop is new enough to be under warranty, you might as well let the company do it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather do it myself if we were talking about fun factor. I love to take things apart and fix them, but with new things I'd rather have it done "professionally". Less headache and worrying about botching something new you've invested money in. Out of necessity I've fixed many old computers myself, and it's fun since you know that if you don't fix it, it won't get fixed. So if it gets ruined then too bad, it was fun trying!

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		
   

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