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Ricky

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22nd July, 2008 at 16:40:16 -

What do you guys want in MMF 3?

here's some of the things i want
-global,renamable qualifiers with changeable icons (not trash cans)
-Multiple action points (32 would be nice)

-Direct/indirect object selection
Ex:
If active 1 is overlapping active 1
-do somthing to Performing object
-do something different to object Performed ON

 
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Ricky

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22nd July, 2008 at 16:44:00 -

Also, a button that automatically imports 1 of each object to your to your frame so that your events work.

 
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22nd July, 2008 at 16:45:07 -

MMF3d like we all wanted MMF2 to be!

 
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Ricky

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22nd July, 2008 at 16:47:02 -

MMF2 is great, and I don't need MMF3 as ive barely begun to touch its power. I just posted this cause it was confirmed in click cast and wanted to know what people wanted

 
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Codemonkey

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22nd July, 2008 at 16:52:28 -

Lot's and Lot's of ink effects!

 
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22nd July, 2008 at 17:09:36 -

Built-in engies that work. I'd always prefer custom, but the least they could do is fix that up for any people new to the software >>>

I'd also like to see the morphing option to be brought back.

 
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22nd July, 2008 at 17:11:33 -

I'd like the grid to appear again in the animation/backdrop editors, I found it helpful in MMF 1.5.

 
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22nd July, 2008 at 17:44:01 -


Originally Posted by -Codemonkey-
Lot's and Lot's of ink effects!



We have pixel shaders now. Ink Effects are obsolete compared to what we can do with pixel shaders.

I think a lot of the things posted in Rickys original post, is stuff that shouldn't be allowed to go unexpected for MMF2. I still think it's early to get our hopes up for another new version of MMF that's going to take another 5 years after it's initial release date.

 
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Klikmaster

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22nd July, 2008 at 18:48:57 -

I don't think we should be thinking about MMF3, a lot of these requests should be built into MMF2 in a new update really.

 
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Codemonkey

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22nd July, 2008 at 21:06:07 -


Originally Posted by BrandonC

Originally Posted by -Codemonkey-
Lot's and Lot's of ink effects!



We have pixel shaders now. Ink Effects are obsolete compared to what we can do with pixel shaders.

I think a lot of the things posted in Rickys original post, is stuff that shouldn't be allowed to go unexpected for MMF2. I still think it's early to get our hopes up for another new version of MMF that's going to take another 5 years after it's initial release date.



Um, what exactly are pixel shaders?

 
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22nd July, 2008 at 21:57:11 -

I think its like Cel-Shading...

 
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22nd July, 2008 at 23:23:18 -

I'm fairly sure it's as simple as shading each pixel seperately for lighting effects instead of making an entire object or room or whatever the same brightness.

Which would be useful for things like real time shadows and bump mapping.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 04:49:16 -

They're image transformations/effects done by the video card as opposed to software ink effects. They're much faster and you can do some trippy effects with them - but at the moment you can't get the background pixels in a shader (because of how the render process works) so the effects are limited.

Also: Feature wise we need the ability to create objects by name (and just more options in regards to creating objects really). It's missing a lot of flexibility seeing as it's one of the core functions.

I don't really have too many problems with MMF2 - but Ricky has good points too.

I agree with Brandon that things like this don't warrant number 3 yet, they need a pretty big feature list for me to buy a new version.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 04:55:34 -

hide-able toolbars. so when you arent using them they minimize into the wall they are docked to. they take up too much goddamn room.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 04:59:51 -


Originally Posted by Random Cecil
hide-able toolbars. so when you arent using them they minimize into the wall they are docked to. they take up too much goddamn room.



Sounds like you need to move your stuff around to be more organized, or up your resolution. If you're using anything below 1024x768 you're much to low, and even at 1024x768, you're pushing it. 1280x1024 or higher.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 12:44:05 -

I'd say a large widescreen monitor is well suited to MMF, what with needing the project window, properties window, object palette and layers window all open at the same time..

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 15:16:58 -

Someone may have already said this, because I didn't read the posts. Why don't you guys just send these suggestions to Clickteam? It seems to me that they could easily handle adding them into MMF2. Why wait?

 

  		
  		

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23rd July, 2008 at 16:35:45 -

Make it 3D! Nobody wants another rehash of Klik and Play, sheesh.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 16:47:43 -


Originally Posted by Markno2
Make it 3D! Nobody wants another rehash of Klik and Play, sheesh.



If we wanted to make 3D games we wouldn't be using mmf.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 17:00:47 -


Originally Posted by -Codemonkey-

Originally Posted by Markno2
Make it 3D! Nobody wants another rehash of Klik and Play, sheesh.



If we wanted to make 3D games we wouldn't be using mmf.



I would. 3D MMF would work.

 

  		
  		

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23rd July, 2008 at 17:03:07 -

Someone may have already said this, because I didn't read the posts. Why don't you guys just send these suggestions to Clickteam? It seems to me that they could easily handle adding them into MMF2. Why wait?

Because we'll have rotted by the time they implement it into MMF2. You might as well wait the year or two it'll take to get MMF3.

CT are good with tech support and bug fixes, but I've found getting them to add really cool and useful features is like asking a plum to grow wings. I'm convinced they actually don't use MMF to the extent that we do, and therefore don't see the hugely pressing need for serious changes.

Ask away, it won't happen.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 18:34:14 -


Originally Posted by Markno2
Make it 3D! Nobody wants another rehash of Klik and Play, sheesh.



Go learn how to code if you want to make 3D games. MMF2 prides itself for being very flexible and at the same time, very simple, and very logical. To do 3D, and keep these simple guidelines, it would take a ton of work, and even then, still be above and beyond what a good 98% of all Clickers would consider easy. So I say, people need to just stop asking for 3D, because I know as sure as I'm sitting here, if and when the day comes that they get it, they'll complain it's to hard.

Plus, Clickteam would never be motivated enough to do it. It's taken them how long to respond to Hardware Acceleration and it's still taking forever to get the next patch.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 20:45:22 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Someone may have already said this, because I didn't read the posts. Why don't you guys just send these suggestions to Clickteam? It seems to me that they could easily handle adding them into MMF2. Why wait?



Clickteam occasionally check out the TDC forums anyway. I'm sure they'll read it.

 
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23rd July, 2008 at 20:59:12 -

Personally, I think that as a tool for making 2d windows games, clickteam has taken MMF about as far as it can go. There's very little they could do to significantly improve it terms of adding new features.

I think they're already on the right track. Having the ability to build J2ME games playable on cell phones is probably the only thing I can see attracting new buyers - personally, I don't feel MMF2 is really such an improvement over MMF1 as to be worth the money, and MMF3 will need to be an even bigger step forward if they want any commercial success. Am I right in thinking that building Java apps in MMF will make them playable on the internet without vitalize? If so, that is also very appealing to me.

I don't see a 3D version of MMF being successful. I don't think it would be possible to retain the simplicity, and certainly it's a lot harder for people to make decent textured 3D models than 2D sprites - every game would end up using the same library models, and we all know how people here feel about that...


 
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23rd July, 2008 at 22:20:43 -

I agree that MMF3D would not be successful for those reasons. Which is why I'm sad, because people who really could use it won't be able to, since it likely won't be made. If it weren't for the modeling part, I'm sure Clickteam could make a texture editing thing that lets you either draw right on the model or draw on each polygonal section. And really just adding a Z axis wouldn't be that hard. I know it would be a bit more difficult to make games with, but I could definitely see it happening. 2D video games aren't much more than telling sprites where they should be and then developing formulas (formulae?) and whatnot for movements and behaviors and such. 3D just adds another dimension. Meh, doesn't matter, since I'll be a pro video game developer by the time MMF3D would ever come out.

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24th July, 2008 at 01:30:51 -

@brandon - my resolution is 1280x800, and i have all my toolbars pinned to one wall. i just find it very annoying that you cant hide them. any extra room is a big help.

 
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24th July, 2008 at 01:55:28 -


Originally Posted by Random Cecil
@brandon - my resolution is 1280x800, and i have all my toolbars pinned to one wall. i just find it very annoying that you cant hide them. any extra room is a big help.



Well theres your problem. 1280x800 is almost as bad as 1024x768. Try upping to 1440x900. If you're serious about any extra space making you happy, then this should give you an erection.

 
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24th July, 2008 at 02:02:01 -

my laptops monitor doesnt fully support it. and i havent bought my new monitor yet. anything over 1280x800 makes the screen scroll.

and i dont like the super high resolutions. id rather have autohiding toolbars. its a time AND money saver. im not gonna go buy that monitor solely so i can have extra space in mmf

 
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24th July, 2008 at 02:51:46 -


Originally Posted by Random Cecil
my laptops monitor doesnt fully support it. and i havent bought my new monitor yet. anything over 1280x800 makes the screen scroll.

and i dont like the super high resolutions. id rather have autohiding toolbars. its a time AND money saver. im not gonna go buy that monitor solely so i can have extra space in mmf



But you'll buy an MMF3?

 
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24th July, 2008 at 05:21:51 -

i'm more leaning towards the side that thinks these should be simple updates to mmf2. even so. mmf2 is only 120$. a good monitor can run upwards of 300$+.

 
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24th July, 2008 at 16:40:33 -

whats wrong with having 3D capabilities in a click product. I'm pretty sure they could make it optional so those that don't want to use it, or aren't capable, don't have to.. that way nobody loses out.

 
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24th July, 2008 at 17:33:22 -

I don't think we need an MMF3 right now, we all seem to be doing great without it.

 
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24th July, 2008 at 19:42:29 -


Originally Posted by Mr_Tom
whats wrong with having 3D capabilities in a click product. I'm pretty sure they could make it optional so those that don't want to use it, or aren't capable, don't have to.. that way nobody loses out.



Except everyone waiting for other priority tasks to be finished while we wait for a feature 85% of the whole community is sure will not work. Seriously, Go Learn Coding if you want 3D games.

 
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24th July, 2008 at 20:09:02 -

If they're gonna do a serious upgrade, they might as well make DS and/or PSP runtimes.

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24th July, 2008 at 21:12:44 -

" Except everyone waiting for other priority tasks to be finished while we wait for a feature 85% of the whole community is sure will not work. Seriously, Go Learn Coding if you want 3D games. "

well yeah sure there is plenty of other stuff that i would also want to come first or instead of 3D. I just meant that 3D does not = no 2D.



 
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24th July, 2008 at 22:24:49 -


Originally Posted by Mr_Tom
" Except everyone waiting for other priority tasks to be finished while we wait for a feature 85% of the whole community is sure will not work. Seriously, Go Learn Coding if you want 3D games. "

well yeah sure there is plenty of other stuff that i would also want to come first or instead of 3D. I just meant that 3D does not = no 2D.




When a company has such a little work bandwidth, you're kind of required to pick one or the other.

 
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25th July, 2008 at 07:47:04 -

I've listed my wants here:
http://www.create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=223783

I think it scared off a lot of people from writing anything else

 
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25th July, 2008 at 14:00:19 -


Originally Posted by Muz
I've listed my wants here:
http://www.create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=223783

I think it scared off a lot of people from writing anything else



I like those.

 
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25th July, 2008 at 14:43:20 -

Just another idea, a way to remove an extension from your mfa easily. The number of times people haven't been able to open my files that I send because of a stray shortcut or missed object .

 
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26th July, 2008 at 19:47:16 -

It would be nice to have xba runtime object and ds homebrew object, so click games could be plaid with xbox360 and NDS.

 
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26th July, 2008 at 19:54:55 -

DS PSP or XBOXLIVE runtimes would cost money. So thats not going to happen.

 
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26th July, 2008 at 20:05:11 -

Yea, making xbox and DS features would be an entire project in itself. I'm sure this has been implemented, but I haven't used TGF2 in ages, so I can't remember if it's there, (that, and it may be an mmf2-only feature.) but Onion-skin in the animation editor would be VERY HANDY. In fact, if it's in, or was put into, MMF2, I'd try to buy it.

 

  		
  		

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26th July, 2008 at 21:09:04 -

adding 3d would be an entire project in itself too. It would make more sense to make MMF3d instead of adding it to MMF2.

 
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26th July, 2008 at 21:15:21 -

I agree with Cecil. Making those toolbars hideable would be awesome, I seriously doubt that it would take very long to add as well.

 
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27th July, 2008 at 04:15:46 -

agreed! haha i just got my new monitor. 1440x900 native resolution. mucho nice. still would like hideable toolbars though. DO IT!

 
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27th July, 2008 at 04:37:06 -

I want a tv commercial.

 
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27th July, 2008 at 10:27:37 -


Originally Posted by Knudde (Shab)
I agree with Cecil. Making those toolbars hideable would be awesome, I seriously doubt that it would take very long to add as well.



I don't think I understand this. Isn't this the same as right-clicking anywhere on the toolbar and turn it off?

 
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27th July, 2008 at 11:43:38 -


Originally Posted by X_Sheep

Originally Posted by Knudde (Shab)
I agree with Cecil. Making those toolbars hideable would be awesome, I seriously doubt that it would take very long to add as well.



I don't think I understand this. Isn't this the same as right-clicking anywhere on the toolbar and turn it off?


No, no, it means when you don't have your cursor over it, it would close itself. There are some toolbars that you can't disable, like the properties bar, horizontal, vertical bar.

 
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27th July, 2008 at 17:51:11 -

I think mmf3 should be jamagic

 
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27th July, 2008 at 18:56:05 -

i think you should be jamagic. cause you fail. (jk)

 
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27th July, 2008 at 21:25:26 -

Dogzer never fails
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 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27th July, 2008 at 21:53:31 -

NONO! No TV commercial! We'd be flooded out. Just keep the ads to where serious game developers can see them.

 

  		
  		

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27th July, 2008 at 21:58:39 -


Originally Posted by Le Crouton Belchiere (OldManClayton)
NONO! No TV commercial! We'd be flooded out. Just keep the ads to where serious game developers can see them.



No serious game developers will come to this place and stay for long. The only reason I haven't truly left is because it's addicting. I open FireFox and I have a bad habit of typing www.create-games.com when I forgot why I opened it.

 
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27th July, 2008 at 21:59:32 -


Originally Posted by BrandonC

Originally Posted by Le Crouton Belchiere (OldManClayton)
NONO! No TV commercial! We'd be flooded out. Just keep the ads to where serious game developers can see them.



No serious game developers will come to this place and stay for long. The only reason I haven't truly left is because it's addicting. I open FireFox and I have a bad habit of typing www.create-games.com when I forgot why I opened it.



Welcome to the club.

 
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28th July, 2008 at 02:24:42 -


Originally Posted by Knudde (Shab)

Originally Posted by BrandonC

Originally Posted by Le Crouton Belchiere (OldManClayton)
NONO! No TV commercial! We'd be flooded out. Just keep the ads to where serious game developers can see them.



No serious game developers will come to this place and stay for long. The only reason I haven't truly left is because it's addicting. I open FireFox and I have a bad habit of typing www.create-games.com when I forgot why I opened it.



Welcome to the club.



quite a dandy club it is.

 
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28th July, 2008 at 02:42:24 -

Well, I mean, just keep the ads where people who want to pursue a career in video game development but do not yet know the hard way of doing it can see them.

 

  		
  		

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28th July, 2008 at 07:18:38 -


Originally Posted by Le Crouton Belchiere (OldManClayton)
Well, I mean, just keep the ads where people who want to pursue a career in video game development but do not yet know the hard way of doing it can see them.



So put ads in front of the nearest Gamestop, Walmart, or Best Buy. They have plenty of people who want to make games, but have no clue how hard it is.

 
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28th July, 2008 at 16:55:52 -

I thought you left TDC... You had a big formal goodbye topic... just kiddin'

 

  		
  		

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28th July, 2008 at 18:02:40 -

I think 3DMMF could be good. I've seen other projects, like 3D Rad, that have tried to do a ClickTeam style of spread sheet type code. I mean it worked but none of them have had the..... elegance of the ClickTeam system.

Also, it would be nice to be able to change the icons on the groops, to be able to have unlimited number of groops and I'd also vote for minimizing tool bars and having decent built in engens would be nice also.

 
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28th July, 2008 at 18:49:16 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
I thought you left TDC... You had a big formal goodbye topic... just kiddin'



This is the second time you've said that. You made your point the first time.

 
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28th July, 2008 at 18:57:57 -

Oh dear, did I already say that? Sorry. Does anyone know if onion-skinning is a feature in MMF2? It's needed badly methinks.

 

  		
  		

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31st July, 2008 at 11:22:15 -

The most important thing would be the Mac compatibility for me. I think it is neccessary if we want to be competitive!

 
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31st July, 2008 at 11:32:06 -


Originally Posted by Simon Czentnár
The most important thing would be the Mac compatibility for me. I think it is neccessary if we want to be competitive!



java runtime'd make it, won't it?

 
:C

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31st July, 2008 at 12:50:20 -

Yeah, but I'd like to use also MMF2 on my Mac.

 
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Muz



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31st July, 2008 at 14:39:22 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Does anyone know if onion-skinning is a feature in MMF2? It's needed badly methinks.


Is onion skinning the one where you can see the next/previous frame of the animation? That one's in MMF2. I use it a lot

I don't get why people use Macs though, if nothing runs on them. Apple has this big anti-PC campaign, but c'mon, who would buy a Mac if you can't use anything good on it? It's like Opera browser or Linux, fast and clean but I end up using something else instead

 
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1st August, 2008 at 11:01:59 -

it does seem that apple deliberately make their stuff not compatible with anything else so that everyone else has to release Mac versions of their stuff.

 
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1st August, 2008 at 20:38:31 -

I must say I'm still in love with MMF2 after 2 years.

 
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1st August, 2008 at 20:49:20 -

Maccers may hate me for this, but I don't understand people's infatuation with macs. I suppose they could say the same about PC users but... Anyway, I have first-hand experience, and know that Macs are no more stable than PC's. Sure, alot of times the UI and computer look shinier, but in the end that can just cause sluggishness. I just don't get it! Oh well, enough rant.

I thought maybe it was a feature-- is it MMF2 only? Or does TGF2 have it? I suppose it doesn't matter either way since I want to buy MMF2 for other features anyway.

 

  		
  		

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1st August, 2008 at 21:09:00 -

Muz- I use OSX because it's much better for the high-end work stuff, IMO at least. In XP I can only run MMF2 or Photoshop CS3 (whilst editing the Tormi map) , even just opening IE or Outlook takes ages to load and becomes very unresponsive. In OSX I can edit the map and have the rest of the system take minimal impact whilst still performing well, but I think that's more to do with OSX's memory management than Photoshop's coding. Logic (for the soundtrack), Motion, Final Cut - all big mofo apps that run brilliantly. But I can't live without XP since it's pretty much the gaming platform.

And OMC, it's not sluggish. It navigates differently but with built-in features like Spotlight, smart folders and Expose I can run around OSX and get to where I need much quicker than I can in Windows. Couldn't at first since I tried running OSX like Windows which (apparently) is a big mistake. And my first hand experience is that both systems are very solid, just that XP is more prone to potential problems and it's silly little lock ups.

 
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OMC

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1st August, 2008 at 21:16:58 -

Well, without delving into an entire argument, every time I've used a Mac it's been just as slow as XP. And not because I'm not used to navigating with it. I've had programs refuse to close out, safari would freeze, the stinkin' little dashboard thingy gets stuck on one icon... and these are all new Macs! Not that XP isn't buggy. It does have its crapload too. But I guess when it comes to what really matters-- MMF, of course, someday it shall not matter what OS you use. Hopefully.

 

  		
  		

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1st August, 2008 at 21:36:37 -

Well something is wrong there, are these school/college macs? are you sure they're new? I've got a 4 year old PowerBook and 2 2 year old iMacs both running Leopard and I've never once had a problem like that. Which programs refused to close? Force Quit shuts anything down if it's taking too long to close.

 
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1st August, 2008 at 22:15:03 -

are you sure your xp computer doesnt just suck? it does depend on your hardware too

my laptop running xp runs better than some newer macs ive used. Image

 
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1st August, 2008 at 22:20:48 -

Originally Posted by Random Cecil
are you sure your xp computer doesnt just suck? it does depend on your hardware too

my laptop running xp runs better than some newer macs ive used. Image

It's becoming a proven fact that 9x out of 10, all people who say Windows XP and Windows Vista suck, have either a computer with a shit load of spyware, or their hardware is just extremely poor. Macs are only good because they have slightly higher specs from the store, and the manufacturer is Apple themselves. People never think to just format their damn PC after they buy it, or better yet, build one from scratch. Windows is more then capable of going above and beyond the capability of a Mac, plain and simple. You just have to not be an idiot.

 
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1st August, 2008 at 22:40:49 -

Come again? I know how to run a PC. I've never had a virus on my current system, had no serious problems at all. I defrag the drive bi-weekly, I keep the registry clean and jump through all them kinds of hoops but it's just the way Windows is. I could film it if you wanted. The same machine, 2 64bit operating systems running on the same hardware with no background apps running (even with AVG and Steam disabled). Both Photoshop 10.1 (CS3's latest version). Both with 4gb allocated scratch. It does just handle better, I can even run a Spotlight instant indexed search or Logic/Final Cut/Aperture whilst saving the large Photoshop file in OSX. God knows how it does it. The hard drive doesn't click away any extra so it can't be using virtual memory.

Heh, infact I leave Smash Bros Brawl on during the day so when I click save on MMF2 or Photoshop I can have a couple of games

Image Edited by the Author.

 
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1st August, 2008 at 23:07:10 -

I use both Mac and PC and must say I really like both.

 
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1st August, 2008 at 23:35:27 -

well something isnt right.

im not sure how memory intensive cs3 is but i can normally run mmf2, steam running counterstrike in the bg, itunes, instant messenger, and a few browser windows, with no effect on performance.

accept whenever i do that AND run powerdvd, my computer takes a dump, but thats because theres something wrong with my dvd drivers. it also does that when i click through the chapters too fast.

wait youre running windows xp x64? why on gods good earth for? 64bit operating systems generally aren't fully supported on all systems.

 
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2nd August, 2008 at 00:08:45 -

It is on a Mac, Bootcamp has full 64bit support for hardware Apple uses. And no nothing is wrong. I could try this on my other iMac. XP just handles memory no so well. But that's agiven considering XP's core is 7 years old now and the current OSX was rebuilt in 2005 (with Tiger).

 
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Fish20



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2nd August, 2008 at 01:02:11 -


Originally Posted by -Codemonkey-

Originally Posted by Markno2
Make it 3D! Nobody wants another rehash of Klik and Play, sheesh.



If we wanted to make 3D games we wouldn't be using mmf.



What else would you use.

 
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2nd August, 2008 at 04:01:44 -

Didn't read all that, but I wanted to say really quick that these are indeed new macs, and even force quit over and over would not kill the frozen program.

But no matter. It's no big deal which platform everyone thinks is best. ")

 

  		
  		

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2nd August, 2008 at 04:25:07 -

I can have Photoshop CS3 open, MMF2 open, 3 different instant message programs, Winamp, and still be playing a round of UT2004 while waiting for something to render in 3D Studio Max 9. While pulling more then playable framerates and not impacting the rate of which my image renders. I think Windows is more capable then people give it credit for.

 
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2nd August, 2008 at 11:39:55 -

People don't realise making 3D games will always be a lot harder than making 2D ones. The programming will always be harder and especially making the gfx will be harder. Everybody can cook up something in a pixel editor, modeling, skinning and animating for a 3D game is not so easy.

 
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2nd August, 2008 at 12:09:40 -

"What do you guys want in MMF 3?"

I want actually something out of MMF; the bad object bug.

 
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2nd August, 2008 at 16:53:57 -


Originally Posted by Hayo
People don't realise making 3D games will always be a lot harder than making 2D ones. The programming will always be harder and especially making the gfx will be harder. Everybody can cook up something in a pixel editor, modeling, skinning and animating for a 3D game is not so easy.



yeah it's a huge amount of work, thats why modern consoles rarely have 2d games on them anymore. 3d is more game for your money essentially.

 
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3rd August, 2008 at 12:20:16 -

infinitely more volume for your money, for something in 2 dimensions has 0 volume!

Image Edited by the Author.

 
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4th August, 2008 at 06:08:51 -


Originally Posted by Dr. James
It is on a Mac, Bootcamp has full 64bit support for hardware Apple uses. And no nothing is wrong. I could try this on my other iMac. XP just handles memory no so well. But that's agiven considering XP's core is 7 years old now and the current OSX was rebuilt in 2005 (with Tiger).



maybe...just maybbeee...xp wasnt intended to run on a mac.
and as for 64bit being fully supported, its also the software end of things. programs. drivers. etc.
you combine a relatively newer architecture without full support with an older OS such as xp, and run it on mac using bootcamp, youre just ASKING for trouble.

 
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4th August, 2008 at 06:11:15 -

built in arrays, declarable variables etc, that would sit on the top level. Also the ability to change code segments into functions and call them or do recursions with them instead of this half-assed fast looping stuff.

And I haven't tried MMF2's animation editor yet, does it suck as much ballage as the MMF1.5 one?

Image Edited by the Author.

 
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4th August, 2008 at 07:01:59 -

It's better than MS Paint. Doesn't have any fancy tools, but what it does have works well.

 
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4th August, 2008 at 07:57:08 -

MMF1.5's animation and picture editor rox. It's even more powerful than MMF2's, which doesn't even have non-square selection, or any special brushes.

A feature I'd like to see is an... I don't know, a magic mooclick tool which can make multiplayer games just by entering the object, heh, and automatically assign you to player 1, 2, 3 or 4...

 
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4th August, 2008 at 08:08:21 -


Originally Posted by Markno2
MMF1.5's animation and picture editor rox. It's even more powerful than MMF2's, which doesn't even have non-square selection, or any special brushes.

A feature I'd like to see is an... I don't know, a magic mooclick tool which can make multiplayer games just by entering the object, heh, and automatically assign you to player 1, 2, 3 or 4...



O_o i feel like I'm trying to paint a cattle barn with a toothpick and one of those pastel kits from 5th grade when I use the thing. Well I don't use it, I just do the graphics in TGF & import them. Heck if there was actually other bonuses of MMF2 besides the picture editor & HWA, I might buy it. But then again, the picture editor is something they just took away from TGF to MMF, and HWA shoulda been in there in the first place.

 
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4th August, 2008 at 12:10:04 -

Yes, cool people don't need fancy tools in their pic editor

 
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4th August, 2008 at 19:19:25 -

Amen! And if you do need more tools just use Graphics Gale for the more complicated gfx.

 
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4th August, 2008 at 19:59:25 -

I most definitely prefer TGF's animation editor. It seems to me they could make one with more tools, without making it so clumsy. I don't think they used common sense.

 

  		
  		

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4th August, 2008 at 20:17:34 -

They didn't, they used french sense.

 
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AndyUK

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5th August, 2008 at 03:24:39 -

Thats quite common in France though

 
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5th August, 2008 at 04:40:01 -

MMF 1.5's picture editor felt more open and flexible, but when you break it down, that's really only because you feel like you had to be careful where you clicked and dragged. If you accidentally clicked in the wrong spot you might close a tool bar, and if you dragged around and zoomed and all sorts of stuff, just accidental crap, then you'd get all sorts of redraw issues. Not to mention on more occasions then I can remember, the editor would either just completely close MMF, no error or anything, or buttons would start to goof up and message dialogs would lock up and just all sorts of fun stuff. MMF 1.5's editor was crap to say the least. The new one isn't as powerful, but that has nothing to do with how it's designed, it just doesn't have the tools. It's much more stable though, for sure.

 
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6th August, 2008 at 14:30:12 -

3D

Or if not that AT LEAST increase the maximum speed objects can move at with out having to resort to fiddly plugins.
And can we move up from 32 directions yet? Y'know, for above view shooters and stuff.

So yeah. MMF 3D would be good. I personally don't see anything 2D which would be much of an improvement. Perhaps a nice Text object would be useful, it might just be me but I preferred TGF 1's text thing.

 
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well why does the custom controls for the keyboard palyer even affect the menu controls at all whats thep oint jsutm ake it so for the keyboard palyer on the menu screens everything is always up down left right enter regardless of the controls they set'

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Eternal Man [EE]

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6th August, 2008 at 14:38:13 -

Some nice text-functions would be really nice, the ability to include fonts within the app so you can use any font without external files and that crap. Built in character by character displayed text. Some of the usual text-functions one would expect to see!

 
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markno2



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7th August, 2008 at 13:44:03 -

MMF2 sux! D: ... Sorry, that's what I think of it. Hardly any major improvment from MMF1.5 except for some re-drawn icons and some built-in functions instead of extensions.

MMF2's editor is less powerful, and not as good, you have to admit. When I was a kiddy using TGF, I didn't want to use MMF1.5 editor because it was -too complex- not because "it's gay" as some people here are saying. I realised that it was in fact more powerful. I took the time to get used to it, and I can create much better pixel art in it than I ever could with MMF2's crippled editor. Even Construct's editor is more powerful (but less stable, currently) than MMF2's, and that's saying something.

MMF2 is finally getting better with JAVA and HWA, though. And if it wasn't for Scirra's bit of competition, we still wouldn't even have BETA1 of HWA.

 
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7th August, 2008 at 14:17:52 -

i cant disagree on how it compares to mmf1.5. but i do disagree that it sucks. tgf to mmf2hwa is complete win.

 
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Hayo

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7th August, 2008 at 14:31:10 -

I must say the MMF2 picture editor is pretty good for pixelart. It's like the TGF one with better zoom. The only thing I don't like about it is the little shit next to the cursor. Which is why I still do my gfx in TGF. Unless I want to zoom.

 
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7th August, 2008 at 14:42:28 -

Yea, the cursors are a buggage. We all got used to the exact way you had to draw circles and stuff in TGF, it might have been a pain sometimes, but it's better than MMF2's. I also don't like that I can't drag frames as smoothly as in TGF's animation editor. I really don't give a poo if it's integrated, I think it's distracting. Copy and paste is slower, and it's just designed bad all around. I even tried to get used to it, and I still wasn't as fast as in TGF. I do occasionally open it up to use the nicer rotation and semi-transparent painting though. (But then I just import it back into TGF)

 

  		
  		

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7th August, 2008 at 15:13:39 -

'tgf to mmf2hwa is complete win. '

...shame that hwa isn't supported properly yet and messes up full screen. What I want to know is why they didn't include it in the original MMF2.

 
Don't aim for perfection- you'll miss the deadline

'~Tom~ says (16:41):
well why does the custom controls for the keyboard palyer even affect the menu controls at all whats thep oint jsutm ake it so for the keyboard palyer on the menu screens everything is always up down left right enter regardless of the controls they set'

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7th August, 2008 at 15:20:02 -



 
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7th August, 2008 at 16:07:53 -

hwa doesnt messes up full screen? you mean the dx8 and 9 mode where fullscreen puts the display in the corner? just tick "stretch to fill screen" and its all better

wait nvm i had it in standard mode.

you dont NEED it in full screen in dx do you? hwa still works

Image Edited by the Author.

 
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Silveraura

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7th August, 2008 at 19:25:37 -


Originally Posted by Random Cecil
hwa doesnt messes up full screen? you mean the dx8 and 9 mode where fullscreen puts the display in the corner? just tick "stretch to fill screen" and its all better

wait nvm i had it in standard mode.

you dont NEED it in full screen in dx do you? hwa still works

Image Edited by the Author.



It's nice to have games full screen, especially when you're trying to imply an experience.
Honestly, people who think they have the right to complain about MMF2 being bad, should just go start programing in a programming language, because they're clearly either not in a position to bitch at all, or they're spoiled sour by the fact that they don't need a line of code to make anything. For example, make your own damn custom movement, don't complain that MMF2's only got 32 directions and a limited speed.

I would understand if it seemed like people cared to draw a specific sprite in each of the directional points, but you don't! You use the freaken "rotate" tool. So heres an idea! Use real time rotating... then you get all 360 angles.

 
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9th August, 2008 at 00:04:00 -

1.Nested AND, OR and NOT events plus "case" feature.
2.Possibility to group events as a function or while- or for-loop.
3.Unlimited nameable alterable variables per obejct, which can be declared stings, ints, floats or bools (thus no flags) plus auto (to make it user friendly).
4.Custom groups of objects, and code so that these will find similarities between object in the group such as variable names and type (see my third wish) automatically.
5.Ink-effect or filter object which will become transperent over a specific color or gradiant of color.
6.Possibility to maek groups global.
7.Faster equation editor, where bool variables are read as 1 or 0 when in numeric equation and where there is a not conversion for these bools.
8.Possibility to make an event "never" by just rightclicking its number.
9.Test mode, in which custom counters can be shown while running the game, without having to fix it with object counters and events.
10.Yeah, automatic hide feature would be awesome! A quick way to get into different more specific editing modes, like the the mode entered which is by default activated with "f" in ps, would be cool too.

These whishes are listed in the ordere I came up with them, not after priority.

Brandon, what's your problem with people wishing to have more 3d features? I fully understand why people would like that, although I fully agree with your opinion that game developers should learn real programming for their own comfort. Of course it would be harder than 2d, but it could open up many possibilities for click developers (if it was good).

 
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Codemonkey

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9th August, 2008 at 00:26:31 -

An improved sprite edtior would be great!

 
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9th August, 2008 at 00:52:31 -

Originally Posted by -Codemonkey-
An improved sprite edtior would be great!

Yes, with all sorts of higher end tools you usually only find in things like GIMP or Photoshop, and maybe put them on a tab or panel so you can hide or show them whenever you want, to make them more user friendly.

Also, does no one else want to see the step-through editor from TGF, maybe with some limits on what events are detected by the editor.

Finally, there should be a way to add events to the debugger, so that you can use the debugger to know which events are being activated and when. That way it is easier to find the problems in an engine or whatever else you're programming.

 
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9th August, 2008 at 01:02:19 -

is it so hard to select something and let you right click copy/cut/paste in the sprite editor? thats a given clickteam!

gimme my right click pl0zx

 
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9th August, 2008 at 15:44:16 -

I never liked the step-through editor. Especially when I accidentally hit it instead of the run level button. I still do it to this day. Yes, an improved sprite editor is my main thing.

 

  		
  		

Zezard



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9th August, 2008 at 16:28:45 -

Now that you mention it, the sprite editor for mmf2 does suck at some points. The various tools can only be selected via the keyboard if you first click the painting area (bad). The marker tool is not automatically chosen when pasting something into the fram (very bad). If you have selected something and switch frame, the image is pasted on the previous one, and the selection appears over the next frame (frustrating).

They should also utilize the same letters for the apropriate tools, such as 'i' for pipette and 'g' for the fill tool, now that they were so good to include the "space dragging" (very good feature).

 
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AndyUK

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9th August, 2008 at 16:33:11 -

Yeah, it's a pain to have to manually click unselect before you can do anything else. But there are some things it does right.
Being able to start selecting an area from outside the image is better than TGF1 at least.

 
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9th August, 2008 at 16:59:13 -

'Tis true. The unselect thing is very obnoxious. There are things that I can't remember right now, or even have ever been able to put into words, that make it less streamlined and handy-dandy notebook. It's a frustrating tool to me.

 

  		
  		

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9th August, 2008 at 23:51:10 -

you can unselect bu clicking elswhere on the image. but it should automatically unselect when you choose another tool.

 
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AndyUK

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10th August, 2008 at 00:12:17 -

not if you've selected an area.

also one of the blacks wont actually work if you use the circle tool. The one from the 256 colour palette in the top left if i recall.
Its ok though since you can still use the really dark grey one instead.

 
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Zezard



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10th August, 2008 at 18:09:10 -

I just rememberd that mmf2 doesn't save which nested non-displayed groups of events were open or not, and the default is that they are open. If you organize you events in many groups, and open a group containing several other groups with more groups and/or events, you will have events everywhere and a lot of clicking to do if you want to benefit from the group system.

The program should remember, or at least have closed as default.

 
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10th August, 2008 at 19:11:02 -

Customizable and Namable Groups would be handy.

AND so would Global Qualifiers, they are a MUST!

 
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10th August, 2008 at 19:13:32 -

MP3 format.

Fix the bad objects thing. I never had it but it stops alot of good games from being made.

 
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12th August, 2008 at 10:55:21 -

I'd personally like to see some improvements to the event system.

At the moment it is very cumbersome to link objects via spreading values, or create an object with parameters specific to its parent object. You generally have to do a lot of looping which eats up CPU.

These are the features I would like to see improved more than anything else as their absence really holds MMF back.

 
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16th August, 2008 at 12:39:09 -

- Customizeable Qualifiers.
- More flexible Sub-Application

- No Developer/Standard versions. Just "Multimedia Fusion 3"

 
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18th August, 2008 at 18:11:33 -

I have only messed around with the MMF2 demo because I am waiting to buy MMF3, but I think they should add a "build nintendo DS" option. NDS homebrew is the only community that can compare to this one. They should combine the two communities into one giant, awesome, indie game developer network! Also, there is Java for NDS already, and I heard MMF3 will be written entirely in Java, so MMF + NDS just makes sense!

 
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18th August, 2008 at 18:44:20 -

They should let us make WiiWare also. We have a WiiMote object, and I bet we could make a lot of good games, better than the ones that are already there.

 
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AndyUK

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18th August, 2008 at 18:55:52 -

What about all the other homebrew communities?

The DS is probably far too weak to handle the MMF2 runtime anyway. Also it would be illegal since the DS isn't supposed to be open source.

 
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1st August, 2010 at 04:29:28 -

Anyone know anything about MMF3?

 
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1st August, 2010 at 05:12:34 -

It's 3D, I heard.

 
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1st August, 2010 at 05:13:56 -

Oh my goodness, I hate myself two years ago.

 
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1st August, 2010 at 07:04:34 -


Originally Posted by W3R3W00F
It's 3D, I heard.


Image
Explains it all.

 
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1st August, 2010 at 11:16:43 -

Grave digger has woooon the race!

 
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1st August, 2010 at 14:28:53 -

Whatever it is I hope it does not have the office 2007 ribbon interface. I can not believe someone on here actually wants MMF to have such an interface.

Why not combine MMF 1.5 interface and the ribbon for a even more god awful interface

 
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markno2



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1st August, 2010 at 16:53:36 -

I liked MMF1.5's interface. And graphics editor. And everything else about MMF1.5.

Anyway, that's irrelevant. Is MMF3 actually going to be 3D, or was W3R3W00F just kidding?!

 
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1st August, 2010 at 17:47:05 -

I detested the MMF 1.5 interface for me TGF and MMF2 interfaces are a million times better - still prefer the TGF1 picture editor though

Anyway I really hope MMF3 is NOT 3D. Improve the bad points with MMF2 and make the engine more efficient.

I have yet to play with HWA I hope its made it a lot better

 
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1st August, 2010 at 18:51:53 -

Better graphics editor....

BUT ALSO!


SEARCH & SCRIPT FUNCTIONS!

The ability to have the game parse through code to find all instances of XXXXX string, for example, usages of "alterable value A" conforming to conditions- including code snippets and function calls. And then, to make it valuable, the option to edit and replace these functions via script. So for example, I could write a simple line of code that would iterate through my program, replacing all instances of "Alterable Value A("Object1")" with "Alterable Value B("Object2")".

 
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W3R3W00F

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1st August, 2010 at 20:00:45 -

MMF3 better still use 2D, I hate using rendering programs.

Hopefully MMF3 will have, I'm sure plenty want this and have mentioned it before, unlimited Alterable Values and Strings, both Global and Local.

 
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