TDC Coders- please could you make this possible? I think it would be a really handy feature to have, as some people (especially me) don't like to agree with some of the reviews being spewed out. Sometimes I think people are a little biased or unfair, and it would be handy to know who's worth going by in a review. To be honest I'm not sure why this feature hasn't already been implemented? Although reviews are pretty much personal opinions, I think it's important for people to realise what's actually worth 10 stars, and what's not. IMO people tend to be way too generous.
You should also be able to rate ratings of reviews. And ratings of ratings of reviews. And members, forum topics, posts and comments. I rate your topic 3.14159 stars out of 26.53589793238, because I can.
Originally Posted by -Adam- TDC Coders- please could you make this possible? I think it would be a really handy feature to have, as some people (especially me) don't like to agree with some of the reviews being spewed out. Sometimes I think people are a little biased or unfair, and it would be handy to know who's worth going by in a review. To be honest I'm not sure why this feature hasn't already been implemented? Although reviews are pretty much personal opinions, I think it's important for people to realise what's actually worth 10 stars, and what's not. IMO people tend to be way too generous.
If you disagree in someone's review of a game, then write your own review of it
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No, because we don't all have time to write them- some of the members here are pretty busy people. However, if a rating system was implied, stars could be given out of 5 in a comment, and that way users would have to give reasoning to it. That way they could point out what they don't agree with etc.
Originally Posted by -Adam- No, because we don't all have time to write them- some of the members here are pretty busy people. However, if a rating system was implied, stars could be given out of 5 in a comment, and that way users would have to give reasoning to it. That way they could point out what they don't agree with etc.
Well, if you can't bother to spend time writing your own reviews, I don't think it's fair to belittle reviews from people who did spend time writing them.
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Yeah, great reviews there. There was also one Martin Bodger's now wisely chosen to delete. Shab knows what I'm talking about. Like the Projects section, the reviews section is also abused sometimes, and something needs to be done about it. ""
I first read this and thought "Well, this is a good idea, because people seem to like to make nonsense reviews." Then I thought, the same thing is going to happen with rating reviews. People will give a review five stars because they want to, it's funny, etc. without really being serious about the rating, or give 0 stars because they're angry. It ends up having the same problem almost as the reviews you want to rate.
You're still missing the point. Completely. It's not actually a case of agreeing/disagreeing to a certain extent. It's a case of if it's a well written review or not. If what they're saying is true, or if they're just writing a review to slag off a game, like a review I saw recently was just a paragraph of text saying why a game was completely crap. So basically judging how fair a review is being. Yes, everyone has their own opinions, but I think it's pretty easy to establish if a game is being over-rated/under rated.
Have you even read Adam's initial post? That wasn't the question at all. I too believe it would be a good idea with ratings of the "quality" of the review.
A big potential problem i can see is that people just wont use it properly. If people disagree with a reviewers final score, for whatever reason they will vote down. Thats just how it is I'm afraid.
like it or not adam does have a very good point all you little hooligans.
i wouldnt go to the extent of being able to 'rate' the review, but something as little as like imdb.com 's "did you find this comment useful or not" system is very effecting. if quite a few people write 10 star reviews for a movie yet more than half of the readers found them "not helpful", i might not bother watching the movie.
and clubby, although liji WAS provoking, he wasnt completely off topic.
I like cecil's idea. However, anything involving human input can be abused.
Personally, I think after reading a couple reviews, you can tell who you can trust and who you can't. Take Shroomlock for example, I trust every word that he writes.
The "did you find this review useful?" thing is a good idea. And then the amount of yes and no's to this question could be added up and displayed next to each person's names when they post new reviews. If a review by Joe Bloggs scores 1/10 and his review rating is yes=1 no=100, it is quite clear that alot of people disagree with his reviews.
How would that stop people from posting comments like these on joke-reviews (See Adam's links)?
"zomg this is so funny
User Rated: "
or
"Haha this game is lame
User Rated: "
I said it before, there's no bug fix for human stupidity.
You're trying to fix something that is impossible to balance. There's no review or rating system that can accurately measure the quality of anything based on people opinions. Overrating and underrating are matters of opinion, and giving people power to "correct" what they see as an unfair tilt on the scale in either direction is a bad idea. Of course there will be extreme examples, but leaving reviews of bad reviews won't make them go away. If someone wants to cause trouble, they won't be intimidated by the possibility that you may leave a negative comment about their bogus review. You could make a system of dictating who gets to review and who doesn't, but there would be just as much controversy about that system too, and that system would be open to just as much personal opinion as the reviews themselves. Any system of reviewing can be abused, even professional ones. Ebay has gone through major changes lately because their review system was being used to blackmail people.
Leaving reviews of reviews may sound like it would work But what will you do when you write a good review or read a review you completely agree with, then someone gives that review a thumbs down or rates the review as 0 stars? Will you start another thread to review the reviews of reviews? The bottom line is that if everyone had their way, they would tweak the review system so that the final outcome would reflect their own opinion perfectly.
All the admins can do is weed out the ridiculous, which they do. Anything else is just opinion, even if it's biased (which all opinions are to some degree). It hurts, but people need to realize that their opinion always equals 1, no matter how right they think they are, and no matter how wrong they thinks everyone else is. You want to change the system so that "reasonable people"'s opinions can equal 1.5 or 2 in order to bring balance to the DC. But in doing that, you'll upgrade the power of everyone else as well, which puts everyone back to 1.
Liji, yeah i agree it wouldn't be able to stop people writing crap like the (good) examples you made, but atleast we wouldn't have to waste our time reading these rubbish types of reviews if loads of people gave it thumbs down. Then maybe these people might get bored and stop posting them. And people won't be put off with good games with bad reviews because they can see how inaccurate the reviews have been.
Originally Posted by Mark Radon Liji, yeah i agree it wouldn't be able to stop people writing crap like the (good) examples you made, but atleast we wouldn't have to waste our time reading these rubbish types of reviews if loads of people gave it thumbs down. Then maybe these people might get bored and stop posting them. And people won't be put off with good games with bad reviews because they can see how inaccurate the reviews have been.
People hardly comment on downloads and hardly rate them (Unless very popular), I don't think many people will actually rate reviews...
Well, the best way is getting more reviews, so the quality reviews outweigh the bad ones, but that's hard with a limited userbase (how many downloads does an average game get here? And of those, how many bothers leaving a rating let alone write a review?)
Maybe just drop the reviews altogether, except for specific nominated reviewers. Problem is we would get much less reviews that way.
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I think there is a good chance that people on this site, who care about good games in the download section, will go out of there way to giv thumbs-down to stupid or biased reviews that are unfair to hard-working Klikers. And i believe this because of the number of people on this thread requesting such a feature.
Originally Posted by Mark Radon I think there is a good chance that people on this site, who care about good games in the download section, will go out of there way to giv thumbs-down to stupid or biased reviews that are unfair to hard-working Klikers. And i believe this because of the number of people on this thread requesting such a feature.
I believe there is a good chance that people will give thumbs-down to any review that they feel contradicts their own opinion.
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thats the whole point. if the majority of of users hated the game and one person hailed it a 10 in a review. then all the people can vote "not helpful" or thumbs down.
same goes for the opposite. all love the game and some reviewer thought it would be funny to rate it a 1 or a 0 or whatever, then they could say "not helpful" or thumbs down.
the point of the system is so that yeah, maybe only one person takes the time to write a review, but if they write a crap review, the majority can call it BS and the few that want to be funny can play along. in the end the majority rules.
its easier to click a yes or no, a thumbs up or thumbs down, a helpful or not, instead of writing a 1500 character review.
Originally Posted by Random Cecil thats the whole point. if the majority of of users hated the game and one person hailed it a 10 in a review. then all the people can vote "not helpful" or thumbs down.
same goes for the opposite. all love the game and some reviewer thought it would be funny to rate it a 1 or a 0 or whatever, then they could say "not helpful" or thumbs down.
the point of the system is so that yeah, maybe only one person takes the time to write a review, but if they write a crap review, the majority can call it BS and the few that want to be funny can play along. in the end the majority rules.
its easier to click a yes or no, a thumbs up or thumbs down, a helpful or not, instead of writing a 1500 character review.
We have a rating systems for the games. We don't need a rating system for reviews.
Your suggested system oppress opinions that are different from the majority.
Sure there are reviews that might not be helpful, but anyone with half a brain can tell that by themselves, and don't need "ratings" to tell them if a review is serious or not.
And don't think it will stop the junk reviews, people will probably think it's even funnier to write a junk review then seeing a bunch of people putting down-votes on it. But people writing serious reviews will also be targetted by people thinking different.
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Originally Posted by BrandonC Let's also add reviewing reviews on other reviews. That'll be fun.
That's my joke.
"You should also be able to rate ratings of reviews. And ratings of ratings of reviews. And members, forum topics, posts and comments."
New idea: Rate polls and poll options! Also rating signatures and avatars, project updates, individual screenshots of downloads, frames in a Klikcast episode and private messages!
I'd like it so that the reviews you wrote showed up on your profile. Shroomlock might need a couple of pages of expansion for his though.
I've been away for a bit, the changes are great! Thank you for my Klickcast pac man!
EDIT: I've written 3 reviews here, because I really thought the games were either excellent, special or both and deserved recognition. I took my time to write decent reviews and it'd suck to get a bazillion "not helpfuls" from people with other opinions on it. I agree with whoever said 'if they don't agree with a review for a game, write one themselves.' The admins are doing a great job here, but "review a review" is a feature they can save themselves the time and trouble working on, as it's not really needed.
Edited by the Author.
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I'm afraid, that if we start rating reviews, it'll turn into us writing reviews about reviews. Then it'll turn into reviews about reviews about reviews that are about other reviews.
Guys, I'm going to say something about this as one of the few people on this site who tries to actively write reviews on a regular basis. You can judge for yourself whether or not that makes my opinion more or less valid to this discussion.
I'd like to point out that there are no rewards, and no incentives to write reviews on the DC. The people who take the time to write reviews do so because they want to contribute to the site, and nothing more. But this thread is all about giving other members the power to give a big to the few reviews that people have taken their time to write.
Speaking as a person who write lots of reviews- I wouldn't bother writing another 1,500 character review and put my time and thought into it if I knew that other members were actively encouraged to stamp a on it without having to leave a comment, reason or even their name. There would simply not be a reason to write a review anymore.
If you want to make changes, then this site needs to completely revamp the review system from top to bottom. If you just add nitpicky features like the ones you're talking about, then the only reviews people are going to write anymore are the ones you were trying to get rid of in the first place. The serious reviewers won't bother.
Well my idea was so that if people wanted to rate a review, they would do so by leaving their name next to the rating and stating a reason as to why they've given it that rating.
Originally Posted by Shroomlock I'd like to point out that there are no rewards, and no incentives to write reviews on the DC. The people who take the time to write reviews do so because they want to contribute to the site, and nothing more. But this thread is all about giving other members the power to give a big to the few reviews that people have taken their time to write.
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What if rather then people giving a large review, we revamp the review system with multiple levels. That way people can easily separate each aspect of the game in one overall review, and then people can give a thumbs or thumbs down (with 4+ word explanation if you vote down) for each part. This way if someone offers a relatively decent review, but there are some aspects of it that you didn't like, you can actually thumbs down and explain why. Thumbs up or down though wont actually effect the credibility of the review, just another way to express opinion.
For example:
The graphics were very nice.
[Random Person]
The sound however was very poor, especially the music.
[Random Person] : I personally found the sound and music to work very well in this game.
(I'm sure BrandonC won't mind, as he has such a positive attitude against review rating )
Wait, because I joked about it, suddenly I have a positive attitude against review rating?
Please re-read my last post. I was actually giving a rather decent suggestion. It allows people to voice an opinion in reviews, without destroying the credibility of it, considering Shroomlock made a very good point. These are reviews people did because they wanted to contribute, and for someone to have the right to say "This review sucks." is kind of a bad idea. Give them less power to be abused, but more power to give critique.
PS: I don't mind you posting my review links here, just so long as you're not trying to use work that I wrote when I was younger, as a way to rub it in my face that I don't know what I'm talking about here.
We don't need people giving 50 negative comments on the only positive review of a game everyone else hated/negative review of a game everyone else loved.
If you loved or hated the game, then say so on the game's comment page, that's what it's therefore. But going into reviews and writing I disagree is just redundant. But maybe I should go to reviews of games I hated (like "everlasting female offspring") and tell everyone reviewing the game how wrong they are?
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I had a load of people telling me how wrong i was in my Knytt stories review. I knew it was inevitable when i wrote it because it's impossible to give the game 17 out of 10 using TDC's current review code.
A ton of people told me I was wrong when I reviewed Smiley House. It's all a matter of voicing your opinion and giving out critique. Besides, you completely neglected to notice that I mentioned you'd be giving thumbs up or down to parts of a review, and then explaining why, if you decide to give it a thumbs down.
It sounds like a decent system, but if you're not going to look at all aspects of mine (or any) suggestion(s), and still put it down, then I don't see much why your opinion matters to begin with.
Originally Posted by BrandonC A ton of people told me I was wrong when I reviewed Smiley House. It's all a matter of voicing your opinion and giving out critique. Besides, you completely neglected to notice that I mentioned you'd be giving thumbs up or down to parts of a review, and then explaining why, if you decide to give it a thumbs down.
It sounds like a decent system, but if you're not going to look at all aspects of mine (or any) suggestion(s), and still put it down, then I don't see much why your opinion matters to begin with.
Yes. You rate parts of each review instead of just the whole thing. That doesn't stop anyone from rating every part of the review because the reviewer has a different opinion.
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Originally Posted by BrandonC A ton of people told me I was wrong when I reviewed Smiley House. It's all a matter of voicing your opinion and giving out critique. Besides, you completely neglected to notice that I mentioned you'd be giving thumbs up or down to parts of a review, and then explaining why, if you decide to give it a thumbs down.
It sounds like a decent system, but if you're not going to look at all aspects of mine (or any) suggestion(s), and still put it down, then I don't see much why your opinion matters to begin with.
Yes. You rate parts of each review instead of just the whole thing. That doesn't stop anyone from rating every part of the review because the reviewer has a different opinion.
That's why you don't actually effect an overall review rating. You're just giving it a thumbs up or thumbs down, there's no average. It's just 1 review, being bombarded with a bunch of opinions. It's by no means an embarrassment system, but a way to enforce that everyone has an opinion on a game. All of this is stuff that both potential downloaders can view, and game designers can benefit from.
Originally Posted by BrandonC That's why you don't actually effect an overall review rating. You're just giving it a thumbs up or thumbs down, there's no average. It's just 1 review, being bombarded with a bunch of opinions. It's by no means an embarrassment system, but a way to enforce that everyone has an opinion on a game. All of this is stuff that both potential downloaders can view, and game designers can benefit from.
A way to enforce that everyone has an opinion on a game? More like a way to enforce that everyone has opinions on a review of the game. Write a review or just post a comment to the game. But why bother commenting on OTHERS OPINIONS on the game.
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Originally Posted by BrandonC That's why you don't actually effect an overall review rating. You're just giving it a thumbs up or thumbs down, there's no average. It's just 1 review, being bombarded with a bunch of opinions. It's by no means an embarrassment system, but a way to enforce that everyone has an opinion on a game. All of this is stuff that both potential downloaders can view, and game designers can benefit from.
A way to enforce that everyone has an opinion on a game? More like a way to enforce that everyone has opinions on a review of the game. Write a review or just post a comment to the game. But why bother commenting on OTHERS OPINIONS on the game.
Seems to be working pretty well on sites like Youtube, Gamespot, and many other sites.
Look, it's a method to enforce that everyone has an opinion on a game, because sometimes commenting the critique of others rather then the product directly, gives more unique feedback. It allows people to respond better to what others are saying.
Rather then fighting my idea, how about actually thinking about it. I mean, by how you're attacking this idea, you're making it sound like everything needs to have a full fledged, logical excuse to exist. Why can't you implicate something simple like this, without making a big deal out of it. Not that I want to bring personal attacks into this, but I feel almost like you're afraid of getting bad feedback on reviews if in the future, you decide to contribute some. I think this idea, though not exactly mine, is a good compromise between Adams and Shroomlocks idea's. Trust me, if I was as hot tempered as people claim I am on this site, it's because of negative feedback like this. I think it's more then worth a shot, and it's not like anything is permanent.
Originally Posted by BrandonC Seems to be working pretty well on sites like Youtube, Gamespot, and many other sites.
There's a difference... On YouTube a popular video could have hundreds of comments. On the other hand, it is rare for a game here to get even five reviews, and many games don't even have a single review.
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Originally Posted by BrandonC Seems to be working pretty well on sites like Youtube, Gamespot, and many other sites.
There's a difference... On YouTube a popular video could have hundreds of comments. On the other hand, it is rare for a game here to get even five reviews, and many games don't even have a single review.
Doesn't mean people can't have an opinion on something someone else said.
People have a lot more constructive opinions based on what other people said, rather then going through the stress of thinking something all by themselves.
This site is welcome to add stars, thumbs and cowbells to each review from this day forward. It's not about who's right or wrong. I'm just letting you know that the few people who take their time to write reviews aren't going to do so anymore if the opinion they're expressing isn't respected by the site anymore.
If a review actually counted for something, then I would understand holding them up to more criticism. But right now a full review actually counts for LESS than a simple star-rating in the comments section, so why create a system to judge the opinion in a review, when expressing that opinion was the only incentive to write one? There's no reward, no gain, no consequence for the reviewer or the author. All there is, is the opinion. If that opinion no longer matters, then there's simply no reason to write a review. It's easier to just leave a comment. The review system is already barely there and barely relevant. If you add something like this, something that degrades the opinion of the reviewer, it will push the review system even farther into obscurity.
Here's what would happen- People would start writing mini-reviews in the comments section instead of writing full reviews. That's what most people do already, and implementing this system would push the rest of us into doing that as well.
The reviews ratings would be more or less like article ratings. It's obvious when someone has taken effort, thought, and time into an review, just like an article. Even if someone disagrees with an article, he can still tell that it is well writen/presented, and wasn't just thrown together. I say thumbs up for review thumbs up/down! /
You can log off any time you like, but you can't ever leave.
Originally Posted by -Codemonkey- The reviews ratings would be more or less like article ratings. It's obvious when someone has taken effort, thought, and time into an review, just like an article. Even if someone disagrees with an article, he can still tell that it is well writen/presented, and wasn't just thrown together. I say thumbs up for review thumbs up/down! /
That's a nice thought BUT most people don't work that way. People will put on well-written reviews that they disagree with. Sorry if I'm cynical but that's the way it works!
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Originally Posted by -Codemonkey- The reviews ratings would be more or less like article ratings. It's obvious when someone has taken effort, thought, and time into an review, just like an article. Even if someone disagrees with an article, he can still tell that it is well writen/presented, and wasn't just thrown together. I say thumbs up for review thumbs up/down! /
That's a nice thought BUT most people don't work that way. People will put on well-written reviews that they disagree with. Sorry if I'm cynical but that's the way it works!
Well then let them disagree, I'm sure the writer of the article will understand that if he does a review, people are going to disagree. MOST people, won't give a comment like "Are you kidding this game deserves a -1!" The download comments seems to be pretty fair, and I think the reivews will too. If someone goes crazy in the downloads, people make get upset/mad/laugh at till he crys. The reivews will be just like the downloads imo, it will be fair enough.
You can log off any time you like, but you can't ever leave.
Discussion over clicking on a click website is already bare as it is. The comment system on giving an opinion on someone elses opinion is a good way to up the amount of discussion on the one thing we all have in common here. I seem to think that everyone who's denying this idea, is under the impression that reviews will get some sort of average rating like: 35% of people like this review.. which would of course be unmotivated for someone who put time and effort into something he clearly did not have to do.
However, consider that a lot of times, people who review stuff and truly put their heart filled opinion into a review, aren't doing it because they only care about contributing, but because they actually want to make their opinion heard in a little more then a petty comment. And as such, a blend of opinions and debates around someones review would inspire better games or more interesting discussions.
I mean, using your theory Pred, no one needs to make games, no one needs to write articles, no one needs to do absolutely anything on this whole site, because there's no reward for it, nor is there any benefit when people are giving you bad ratings and nasty comments on what you worked hard on. Face it, based entirely on what you're saying, your indirectly suggesting we take ratings off of everything, because no one here has any motivation other then contributing.. which really, isn't the case. And if it is, shame on us.
Originally Posted by BrandonC Discussion over clicking on a click website is already bare as it is. The comment system on giving an opinion on someone elses opinion is a good way to up the amount of discussion on the one thing we all have in common here. I seem to think that everyone who's denying this idea, is under the impression that reviews will get some sort of average rating like: 35% of people like this review.. which would of course be unmotivated for someone who put time and effort into something he clearly did not have to do.
However, consider that a lot of times, people who review stuff and truly put their heart filled opinion into a review, aren't doing it because they only care about contributing, but because they actually want to make their opinion heard in a little more then a petty comment. And as such, a blend of opinions and debates around someones review would inspire better games or more interesting discussions.
I mean, using your theory Pred, no one needs to make games, no one needs to write articles, no one needs to do absolutely anything on this whole site, because there's no reward for it, nor is there any benefit when people are giving you bad ratings and nasty comments on what you worked hard on. Face it, based entirely on what you're saying, your indirectly suggesting we take ratings off of everything, because no one here has any motivation other then contributing.. which really, isn't the case. And if it is, shame on us.
I never said there shouldn't be ratings for games or articles. If you want to debate a game then fine, but debate someone's review of it? We could have a "Is this review helpful?" rating, but there's no need for it as most games don't have that many reviews to begin with.
Besides... We wouldn't be encouraging discussion, we would just be spreading it around the site. If people discuss the game on the game's page then that's fine, but if a game has five reviews, then you would have to click through five different reviews seeing if someone replied to one of them.
Besides, we already have a feature to comment on people's reviews
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Originally Posted by BrandonC Discussion over clicking on a click website is already bare as it is. The comment system on giving an opinion on someone elses opinion is a good way to up the amount of discussion on the one thing we all have in common here. I seem to think that everyone who's denying this idea, is under the impression that reviews will get some sort of average rating like: 35% of people like this review.. which would of course be unmotivated for someone who put time and effort into something he clearly did not have to do.
However, consider that a lot of times, people who review stuff and truly put their heart filled opinion into a review, aren't doing it because they only care about contributing, but because they actually want to make their opinion heard in a little more then a petty comment. And as such, a blend of opinions and debates around someones review would inspire better games or more interesting discussions.
I mean, using your theory Pred, no one needs to make games, no one needs to write articles, no one needs to do absolutely anything on this whole site, because there's no reward for it, nor is there any benefit when people are giving you bad ratings and nasty comments on what you worked hard on. Face it, based entirely on what you're saying, your indirectly suggesting we take ratings off of everything, because no one here has any motivation other then contributing.. which really, isn't the case. And if it is, shame on us.
I never said there shouldn't be ratings for games or articles. If you want to debate a game then fine, but debate someone's review of it? We could have a "Is this review helpful?" rating, but there's no need for it as most games don't have that many reviews to begin with.
Besides... We wouldn't be encouraging discussion, we would just be spreading it around the site. If people discuss the game on the game's page then that's fine, but if a game has five reviews, then you would have to click through five different reviews seeing if someone replied to one of them.
Besides, we already have a feature to comment on people's reviews
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I think it would be a really handy feature to have, as some people (especially me) don't like to agree with some of the reviews being spewed out. Sometimes I think people are a little biased or unfair, and it would be handy to know who's worth going by in a review. To be honest I'm not sure why this feature hasn't already been implemented? Although reviews are pretty much personal opinions, I think it's important for people to realise what's actually worth 10 stars, and what's not. IMO people tend to be way too generous. 
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