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Radix

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4th September, 2006 at 03:38:28 -

If God has "always existed", then there is no cause.
What's good for the mythical sky fairy is good for the gander.

But the universe has not always existed, therefore there's a chance that a God created it.
No. Causality cannot exist without time. The temporal dimension occured along with the spatial ones. The article I posted already covered this in point (2).

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4th September, 2006 at 05:12:16 -

I believe in a thing called love, just listen to the rhythm of my heart.

 
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4th September, 2006 at 13:28:06 -

Wow...don't see anyone with my religion...

Im a Satanist,I believe self-empowerment is better than useless prayers.
The Nazarene (Jesus) couldent do much more than healing others,while i can heal myself(Don't have much experience with healing myself,though),and even learn other abilities (seeing one's aura,inflicting pain,etc.)
I believe Father Satan has really guided me for the months i have dedicated myself to Him,opposed to God.I am Christened/baptised myself,but became Atheist on the age of 6/7,and became Satanist this March.

 
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4th September, 2006 at 13:39:59 -

"but became Atheist on the age of 6/7,and became Satanist this March."

You can't be atheist and satanist. If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in his opposite. I don't know if you're joking, but you really do sound like a fuckin tool. Who doesn't know nothing.

 
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4th September, 2006 at 13:49:10 -

Wow...don't see anyone with my religion...

Im a Satanist,I believe self-empowerment is better than useless prayers.
The Nazarene (Jesus) couldent do much more than healing others,while i can heal myself(Don't have much experience with healing myself,though),and even learn other abilities (seeing one's aura,inflicting pain,etc.)
I believe Father Satan has really guided me for the months i have dedicated myself to Him,opposed to God.I am Christened/baptised myself,but became Atheist on the age of 6/7,and became Satanist this March.


Ok, so you are one of those 14 year olds who calls themselves satanists cause they think it's cool...

You can't be atheist and satanist. If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in his opposite. I don't know if you're joking, but you really do sound like a fuckin tool. Who doesn't know nothing.

Actually, you can be Satanist and Atheist. Satanists does not worship Satan. Certain satanists believe Satan exists, but not as an opposite of God (who they do not believe in), rather as a force of nature. Others just use him as a symbol of power, even though they don't believe in it.

A satanist does not worship the devil, he worships himself

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4th September, 2006 at 16:30:34 -

omg ur a satanists? omg omg u bastard

 
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Muz



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4th September, 2006 at 20:56:19 -

No. Causality cannot exist without time. The temporal dimension occured along with the spatial ones. The article I posted already covered this in point (2).
Ah, but the "cause cannot exist without time" is simple a hypothesis brought up my simple humans. We assume that cause cannot exist without time, but that's because we cannot imagine anything before time, and thus we assume that nothing exists before time does. It's a logical assumption, but, may or may not be true.

Perhaps if, as stated in Islam, our universe lies within another universe, then there is an already existing universe before the Big Bang, which means that time has already existed in that one, allowing for our creation to have a cause.

Methaphorically, if we decide to make another universe in ours... say, with an accurate computer game simulating the universe, we'd be the ones who created the universe, but to the simulated computer game people, they can't possibly imagine us for their universe is so different from ours. They are simply bits and bytes of electronic pulses, while we are matter... and despite how much we explain the concept of physical matter, atoms, etc.. they'll still lack the understanding for they were created from a bunch of bits. While the center of our universe is at well... wherever the Big Bang started from, the center, focal point, and the very thing that runs theirs is the CPU. To them, logically, the universe (and their God) cannot be created/generated without a CPU, but to us, the CPU was simply a piece of hardware that's easily created.

So, point is, if as my religion states, there are other other universes outside ours, then it's possible that our laws of time might not apply to the creation of the universe. But I don't want to offend any of you atheists... so, this may or may not be true... and it's up to us to believe whichever side.

Damn ye, you've just made me go on another Muz-style rambling post.



Don't pick on the satanist, it's his choice what to believe in. But what I believe is that God created Satan, therefore, God is a lot more powerful than Satan. It's just that Satan seems powerful coz he meddles in things directly. So, I'd rather worship God over Satan & myself .

 
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.

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Radix

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5th September, 2006 at 03:16:29 -

Ah, but the "cause cannot exist without time" is simple a hypothesis brought up my simple humans.
Sorry Muz, but you're an idiot. The concept of causality is dependant on the existence of time. It's not a 'hypothesis', it's the definition of the term.

So, point is, if as my religion states, there are other other universes outside ours, then it's possible that our laws of time might not apply to the creation of the universe.
String theory suggests the creation of the universe as a brane collision, which is sidestepping the problem of causality by proposing multiple temporal dimensions. If that's the case, then we have a purely physical model that does not require the existence of a diety. Because it's superfluous, we can discard the diety as per parsimony.
But even in this case, where does the brane manifold (or if you like, other universes) come from? If the origin of our universe is explained by the existence of another universe, where did that come from? At some point, the first dimension of time had to occur, and prior to that there cannot have been a causation.

it's up to us to believe whichever side
This reeks of intellectial dishonesty.

 
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5th September, 2006 at 08:37:24 -

I don't know if someone has said this already, but I haven't bothered to read all the posts so here it goes:

Religions and beliefs are terms made up by the human being as a "thing" for them to get support and confort from, in the begining of human civilization it's self. People sometimes don't have the power to change things at will so they had to have some sort of "resort" to help them get it.

Each one of us believes in what he/she wants. and I do not blame or make fun of any of those who belive in the strangest things. Even if they believe in a religion they made themselves, but which they feel good at practicing, and makes them have a better life, then that's what it's all about.

when christians ask: Please god let my sister live from that operation. or something of the sort, their just AUTO securing themselves by using the religious method.

I myself believe only on myself, i have no religion, and I'm down straight to earth. If someone is having an serious operation theres a percentage that sais she's gonna get better and another percentage that she's gonna die. nothing more.

I'd like to continue talking and talking about the topic, but there you go, even like this people are likely not to read it so.

comment

take care guys

 
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5th September, 2006 at 08:41:54 -

I believe it is my duty to pick on "Satanists" (I disgust at the term).

"Satanists does not worship Satan"
Excuse me for my obvious ignorance.

"Certain satanists believe Satan exists, but not as an opposite of God (who they do not believe in), rather as a force of nature."
This sentence does not make any sense. By logic, Satan has to be the opposite of something. If not God, then at least nature itself. In this sense, Mother Nature would take the role of "God" (the real, the natural) and Satan would take the role of the opposite (the supernatural).

Edit:
@Fox: Your beliefs do not necessarily have to bring comfort, for example those with nihilistic views. But you're right about believing in yourself, because the only thing you can be certain of is that you exist in some form.

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5th September, 2006 at 12:06:16 -

Do you know God is really exist? He is!!!

 
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5th September, 2006 at 13:12:24 -

Not only confort, but security that there's a mightier form of power up above existing just to make your day better.
They have better lifes because they believe they are safe cuz HE is goign to help them.

but what is funny is to ask them questions for which they have no answers and that makes them feel uncomfortable. like for example:

if GOD is so mighty, then why does he let millions of people die from starving? and why war in som places and not in others? and, do you think there's a diferent god for each planet? then why aren't the other planets populated as well?

lol

but oh well this all plays part in a part of the great apple that we are all in.

take care


 
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5th September, 2006 at 20:59:18 -

Radix:
LOL, I'm surprised you read that. I just wrote a long, long, long post... but recalling our pointless PC-console debate last time, I decided it'd be better to let it die . One thing about religious debates is that both sides will always bring up unproven theories, or at least acceptable proof against popular theories, and it leads to nothing.

Better save the fighting for something useful, like discussing whether cloning, hybrid creatures are against God's will... which IMHO, isn't true. If God really didn't want us not to make clones of ourselves, it simply wouldn't be possible. A cloned child has a soul, just like a twin would.



"if GOD is so mighty, then why does he let millions of people die from starving? and why war in som places and not in others?"
> Easy answer. Because death is not bad for the believers. If God is so mighty, heaven and hell exist, and those people who died starving will live happily ever in heaven . Those who refused to feed them will suffer in hell.

Or alternatively, you could just say that God doesn't really care. After all, if your children kept begging you for food, would you just give the lazy bums food until they ask for more, or would you toss them in heaven where they wouldn't have to worry about food again? After all, Adam was banished from the Garden of Eden for being rebellious... now his grandkids come praying for food?

See.. religion solves everything. Nobody's depressed because everyone gets what they deserve.

 
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.

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Radix

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6th September, 2006 at 02:37:30 -

LOL, I'm surprised you read that.
Actually I skipped the whole paragraph about the matrix or whatever. If you want to concede that's fine with me.

"if GOD is so mighty, then why does he let millions of people die from starving? and why war in som places and not in others?"
> Easy answer. Because death is not bad for the believers. If God is so mighty, heaven and hell exist, and those people who died starving will live happily ever in heaven . Those who refused to feed them will suffer in hell.

Or alternatively, you could just say that God doesn't really care.

Unfortunately for those explanations, most abrahamic dogma define the faggot as omnibenevolent. I suggest you read up on the Problem of Evil: http://www.iep.utm.edu/e/evil-log.htm

 
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8th September, 2006 at 16:36:09 -

""but became Atheist on the age of 6/7,and became Satanist this March."

You can't be atheist and satanist. If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in his opposite. I don't know if you're joking, but you really do sound like a fuckin tool. Who doesn't know nothing. "

dude,late reply,but im not atheist now -_-',of couser i dropped atheism after becoming satanist ( duh)

 
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