The Daily Click

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Talking Topic #20 : How could the Click Community be a better place?

News posted 7th June, 2007 by The Chris Street

How could the Click Community be a better place?

This is the discussion for this weeks Talking Topic!

Do you feel the residents of the community could be nicer or more helpful? Should there be more klikkers? More tutorials? Perhaps the community should be better promoted? Maybe Clickteam need to market their products better? Should klik games get more coverage from the major websites? What are your ideas?

Please submit your opinions in the comments thread. Remember to keep things clean, and please respect the opinions of other individuals. And, if you have any ideas for the Talking Topic, feel free to mail them to me! Happy debating!

Click here to view previous Talking Topics

Special thanks to Muz for this weeks Talking Topic. Also, sorry it's a bit late.

Posted by ben mercer

7th June, 2007

It'd be better IMO if there were more non platformer games. I've played so many click platformers that now I just don't bother to download them anymore.

Posted by The Chris Street

7th June, 2007

Oh... oops.

Posted by Fanotherpg

7th June, 2007

I think that ClickTeam should better market their products to have more clients which will give them more money to create better click software and community new users and new games. I also think that there should be more tolerance for 'newones' I don't like word noob ^^..

Posted by Dr. James MD

7th June, 2007

Mods with stunsticks.

Posted by BROO

7th June, 2007

Residents (not Clickers, because to be Clicker you have to be creative) shouldn't be using Click Community as a playground where they can be showing off with grammar like 'teh comunitie dyeing!!!1' or saying America sucks.

Posted by Sphax

7th June, 2007

I'm agree with Fanotherpg.
But I think the community is actually really nice, a lot of good products are available and a lot of help can be found on the official forums.

One problem maybe, is that a lot of time I've understand that click developers have shame to say that they develop with a Click software and so a lot of games out of Click site are not marked as a Click game.

Posted by

7th June, 2007

Moar phixxy

Posted by Bricnic

7th June, 2007

The click community would benefit from having a major sponsor or publishing company associated with it, which could be a great source of income to pay for webhosting. While ads wouldn't be great, an alternative could be to sell the rights of games (from willing users of course) or something.

Posted by columbo borgi :C

7th June, 2007

"I also think that there should be more tolerance for 'newones'"
i agree.

Posted by Tim

7th June, 2007

No Phizzy
Another Admin
Click Arcade

Posted by Dr. James MD

7th June, 2007

That's a good idea.

Posted by Phredreeke

7th June, 2007

An Adult Games section

Posted by ben mercer

7th June, 2007

Sorry Chris Street I didn't mean to bash Mr Stumps 2, it's probably really good I'm just not all that into platformers.

PhreddySE is that so you can post more pornographic animated gifs, only this time in the form of a game? I bet she'd love that

Posted by DS Strider

7th June, 2007

In my own personal experience, more people need to stop saying "Good job" to Click apps that are nothing more than crap. I have seen way too many games and applications get praised when they shouldn't have gotten anything. (This is because new clickers are under the assumption that they can make kickass games in less than a few hours without knowing the amount of work required to make a GOOD game or app.) In all honesty, we should toughen up our thoughts on new apps instead of giving praise to those that required little or no effort to make.

Posted by The Chris Street

7th June, 2007

lol thats cool Ben, I was only kidding, you're entitled to choose your preferred genres

Posted by Reno

7th June, 2007

"How could the Click Community be a better place?"

Less bashing and more support

Posted by waffleton

7th June, 2007

I think we need more admins.

Like me, for example. ;P

Posted by lembi2001

7th June, 2007

In all honesty the community is as good as it's going to get unless people change a lot of their attitudes (me included).

How many times have you gone into a forum looking for a little help and ended up arguing with someone over the stupidest of things?? or how many times have you asked a question only to have a smart alec response posted?? or have you done this yourself?

Instaed of slating a game or app or whatever instead give it CONSTRUCTIVE criticism! for example instaed of:
"OMG this game sux, have you seen the gfx on it, built in libs!!! lol"
try looking deeper into it and commenting on the control system, not everyone is a great artist but some ppl can code fantastic engines! Newbs for want of a better word often come here looking for help and advice about their first creation and often dont come back because of these attitudes. DON'T FORGET YOU WERE ONCE A NEWB!

We don't NEED anymore admins and those who think we do more than likely want to be one! Things will be a lot better round here if people only contributed more!

Posted by Chrisbo

7th June, 2007

Clickteam definitely needs to better market their products, and make them more advanced. The Blitz series can run circles around the Click products, why can't we have Blitz-capable products but with Click ease?

Posted by Hill Gigas

7th June, 2007

Less whining. Too many people fill up game discussions with comments like "I didn't like it.", instead of "You should really work on...".

Critiques are great, but let's make them a bit more intelligent! Saying "I don't like it." doesn't help anyone.

Posted by Hayo

7th June, 2007

I agree with Shroomlock. Lots of people whine about games but I yet have to see them make a game that lives up to their own expectations. Posting games isn't much fun when you get "meh, not much fun to play". To make this a better community it should be legal to bash the heck out of those people.

Posted by Ski

7th June, 2007

Better admins in places. I love some admins, I hate some. Some are powerfreaks, social climbers and constantly wanting to shine, others are hardworking and constantly helping people, but unfortunatley they're rare nowadays. Most of the clickteam mods/admin are good role models. One thing I can't stand is admins using their powers to their advantage ie, having the last word and locking a topic, or deleting comments to make themselves look better. Nowadays they're even changing peoples comments too. Pussy cats.

Posted by Johnny Look

7th June, 2007

A NEW VOTING SYSTEM !

Posted by Hayo

7th June, 2007

I agree with Adam about admins, some of them really know how to piss people off

Posted by Ski

7th June, 2007

Some of them hold little talent too.

Posted by ncsoftware

7th June, 2007

We need more serious developers.

Posted by AndyUK

7th June, 2007

More games.

Posted by Sephirenn

7th June, 2007

Better admins. But also more games. Anyone remmeber Lost Valley? That was ripped graphics (and music i think) but was kick ass and fun to play. That's all we need. When games come around like Chalk, Eternal daughter, etc, its great, but you can have just as much fun with less than stellar games that are just fun as hell to play.

Posted by RenatoDep

7th June, 2007

More mature people. I stopped coming to sites like these mostly because the majority of click users are teenagers with big attitude problems, who really think they know everything. As I have said before, specially here, most people act like they are in freaking High School, I have to go down a few years just to communicate with people. Off course there are those who stand out of the crowd, and make this place worth while coming to see what's up. But for the most part, I stay out of it as much as possible.

Posted by RenatoDep

7th June, 2007

The community at clickteam.com is way better, people are more helpful, and less ignorant towards other people. They actually try to help you instead of trashing everything you do or say.

Posted by Ski

7th June, 2007

Posted by »xerus

7th June, 2007

ClickTeam products definitely need more exposure. I consider myself very lucky to have discovered Klik and Play at a very young age, and nobody I knew even heard about it. If more people knew of MMF2, there'd be a bigger community, more games, and better everything.

Actually-- my family recently moved and the kid next door to the new house was actually a frequent user of The Games Factory, and that totally caught me off gaurd because I hadn't met anyone in person that has heard of or used ClickTeam products. ...though, his work in TGF was plain awful, its better than nothing.

Posted by Peblo

7th June, 2007

Unfortunately the metagame for the internet is to act like an ass and overly stupid. If you took TDC off the internet, all the negativity would go away!

Posted by Peblo

7th June, 2007

Actually a click arcade sounds good, but I doubt it would help the community.

Posted by Muz

8th June, 2007

I don't see anything wrong with calling newcomers noobs. Better than calling them beginners or raw meat. Still, they do need to be treated better, I know quite a lot of annoying click noobs who became quite good, made some nice extensions, then quit the community. If they were treated better early on, I think they'd still be here.

Hmm.. I think CT should probably organize some big competition with actual prize money and give perhaps a year to do it. MMF 2 (developer) doesn't really cut it as a prize, all the good klikers (the ones who could make those games) already have it.

It should be open-source and the competing games get a place on the new MMF 2 DVDs. That'll give the newbies a decent benchmark for their games.

Posted by Peblo

8th June, 2007

They should do that, but release the results at a Click Convention so people will have incentive to go. Maybe even a demo of each game at the CC.

Posted by Tim

8th June, 2007

I wasn't completely serious about the Click Arcade thing, though I could code it...

Well anyway, we need one or two new responsible people with the right attitude as admins.

To be annoyingly forward and intrusive:

Pete Nattress won't be around any more,
Where art thou lately, DavidN?
Assault Andy... ok.
Andi Smith?
Muz and Shab... Yeah fair enough...

The only people that I've seen around this year have been Flava and Chris. We simply need more admins, or one good one. Someone that'd take their responsibility ... responsibly, too

There's some people here that'd make a fine job of being admin.

The current admins (and a group of people from the community, that they deem worthy?) should vote on the new admin(s), as leaving it up to the community would likely be unfairly biased and... a mess, etc

Posted by alastair john jack

8th June, 2007

Chris and Flava are the best admins!
LOVE

Posted by Koth

8th June, 2007

I think Clickteam should develop 2d HARDWARE ACCELERATION asap since their products are definitely cut off from 2d professional developing BECAUSE games made with MMF/tgf arent properly accelereated like most of (ALL?) other indie languages and engines

Since now CT profucts are 70% wasted on n00bwares, that'be great as would make Clitckteam tools fitting for more purposes and way more professional developers = more (better) people involved in the community

Posted by alastair john jack

8th June, 2007

yeah click products definitely needs more power.

Posted by RenatoDep

8th June, 2007

Labeling someone as a N00b is derogatory and offensive, better call the person a beginner, plain old English. No attitude involved nor insults. Noobs is too negative, and often can be mistaken for something more than it is. I definetly think an attitude change in most people would be the best thing this community could improve on. People here are too harsh, and often scare off those who are actually trying to do something.

Posted by axel

8th June, 2007

More admins, sure. Circy, Shab and Flava are the only active ones anyway. As for the TDC's collective attitude problem: I think we should remember that there are much worse places out there, like the Gamemaker community (or at least the little that I have seen of it). The noob bashing and elitism is still relatively low on this site.

Meh. We need more games. And more originality in games.

Posted by Ski

8th June, 2007

I dont judge an admin on how active they are, it's how good and professional they are at doing their job.

Posted by BROO

8th June, 2007

I would rather be called noob and get answer on question than having my thread turned offtopic by so-so-funny veteran users. :---).

Posted by axel

8th June, 2007

Adam: Yeah, but it's hard to do a professional job if you're never online, eh?

Posted by Phredreeke

8th June, 2007

What happened to Wong? Is he busy making little baby Wongs?

Posted by jpSoul

8th June, 2007

I think clickteam products should be more promoted, because actually TGF or MMF are totally unknowed... I'm sure they could make some advertisings, I don't know why they are passive, I've the impression that they don't want to be more popular...

Posted by Tim

8th June, 2007

Yeah, because then they'd have to fix more bugs

LOLOLZ

Posted by Rikus

8th June, 2007

Hey what about me, lol. Sorry i have not been around much
i have not told anyone on here but Tanya is pregnant again and the second
baby is due next month. (yea no kiddin) However it has been brought to my
attention more then once the last couple of weeks about the possiblity of
a new admin and let the the dc vote instead ot he admins this time around.
We can try it out and see if it works. But i'll have to discuss this with the
rest of the admins first, in my opinion i think we can really use someone
who would not mind updating the games side of things (posting new games
on the front page for example on a regular basis) So yes it is something we are
aware of and we will keep everyone in the loop if/when we decide a new
admin should be picked.

Posted by Tim

8th June, 2007

WOO

Posted by Hill Gigas

8th June, 2007

Congratulations Rikus! Must be something in the water over there.

Posted by Rikus

8th June, 2007

on a side note i do think that the current admins are doing a great job in keeping everything going btw, it has to be said that flava,chris,shab,muz,club and wong all are doing a great job and are still very active.

Posted by Ski

8th June, 2007

Muz FTW <3

Posted by RenatoDep

8th June, 2007

Right, I understand there are worse places like Gamemaker site, but that doesn't make it okay to be the way many are here. I think this place needs to be as friendly as possible to attract new users, and not push them away. Off course there will always be those who don't...but you know.

Posted by Tim

8th June, 2007

True, GM can 'afford' to have that kinda community, because they have such a vast user base and neverending popularity... interest... etc. You get the picture

Posted by Hayo

8th June, 2007

So TDC needs a rating system based on how nice a person is

Posted by Tim

8th June, 2007

Well yeah, the most obvious and important points could be:

Responsible
Judgemental
Unbiased
Friendly manner / Approachable
Time on their hands :\ lol
Can bring something to the site / community
Knows how to deal with people...
So perhaps some previous experience of running some kind of community? Always comes in handy that one

Posted by Phredreeke

8th June, 2007

in my opinion i think we can really use someone
who would not mind updating the games side of things (posting new games
on the front page for example on a regular basis)

Rikus, I think the problem is that there's not as many games submitted to the site than it used to. Another admin won't solve that.

Posted by

8th June, 2007

Lets bring back the old days!

Posted by Hill Gigas

8th June, 2007

I think the admins here do a good job. I mean sure there are problems now and then. But the important question is: Do the admins work to fix problems that the community is having? The answer is yes. Any time I talk to an admin they are always positive and helpful.

... Do I get my cookie now?

Posted by Phredreeke

8th June, 2007

It's not up to the admins, it's up to the individual users. There's not enough games. Unless the admins start banning everyone who haven't released a game for the past three months then there's nothing they can do about it. (don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that they should do that)

Posted by

8th June, 2007

ban tim

Posted by Peblo

8th June, 2007

There needs to be another award besides GOTW, because GOTW is an awful system. If two good games are submitted that week, one of them will fade into the downloads database forever forgotten. If no good games are submitted that week then we're forced to chose between a few mediocre games, lowering the standard for GOTW and making it a sucky award.

Posted by Cazra

8th June, 2007

Unfortunately it's hard to be original nowadays with all the major companies coming up with all(well, most) of the original game ideas. Most likely if you think your idea is original, somebody probably already did it.

As for attitudes, I dislike flaming trolls and worshippers alike. comments to games are only helpful if they provide constructive criticism.

I think it's perfectly alright if users post unoriginal and/or noobish games. Just making a game builds experience to create better games in the future. Although I don't advocate praising n00bish or unoriginal games, we shouldn't bash them to a pulp with a stick going "lawl, yoor gaem suXXorz!". Tell them how they can improve their game or, better yet and in addition, post an example for improving it.

I'm not really on this site enough anymore though to probably give a well-supported opinion on this topic though. yea. cheese biskits...

Posted by Ricky

8th June, 2007

Alot of you guys say that the community is too hard on newbs. I dissagree. I'm kind of new and in majority, all the criticism i have recied was constructive.

Click software won't grow much until hardware acceleration. It would also help if most people had vitalize pre-installed like they do flash.

Posted by AndyUK

8th June, 2007

i dont see why hardware acceleration would help?

surely everyone that owns a pc today can play all 2d games at a reasonable speed (assuming the game is not terribly inefficient)

Posted by Pixelthief

9th June, 2007

More Trolls, More Newbs, more Mods, and more everything.

A healthy community is rife with strife.

Posted by Blueberry

9th June, 2007

Animated GIFs should be banned. They are soooo irritating and the ones who use them always choose so ugly animations that it makes you sick.

I agree with Pixeltheft that the community needs more users.

Posted by Blueberry

9th June, 2007

Posted by Tim

9th June, 2007

*Rife with Life?

Posted by Hayo

9th June, 2007

Peblo has a good point about the GOTW award. You can win won just with strategic submitting of crappy games.

Posted by ben mercer

9th June, 2007

Hey, whats sick about an angry spartan kicking persian messengers down a well?

The real most irritating thing about DC to me is there are a few certain people that pretty much slate everyones games, and when you look on their profile they either don't have any games, or they have one or two small scale mediocre games.

And yes I think GOTW could do with some fine tuning. Maybe when there are two really good games then the runner up could get a special runner up award, and be mentioned in the GOTW archive.

Posted by Tim

9th June, 2007

RUOTW! (runner-up)

Posted by Koth

9th June, 2007

ANDYUK - "i dont see why hardware acceleration would help?
surely everyone that owns a pc today can play all 2d games at a reasonable speed (assuming the game is not terribly inefficient)"

**ROFL*
have you ever *seen* 2D (as 3d) games made in novashell or blitzplus???? they are damn way smoother compared to klik ones (from what I've heard even gamemaker is better )
MMF of the SAME MACHINES can even chrash with too much alpha channel, (WORSE if directx is on) man thats what I mean, despite all of their functions, ClickTeam tools are doomed to be used mostly on n00bware or vintageware low defintion graphic games, reason why most of indie developer rather to use more advanced program and languages for making better stuff

Posted by Koth

9th June, 2007

so if MMF gets improved more poeple with talent and interest into professional gamemaking would be interested to get it = more money + better contents + better community

Posted by Tim

9th June, 2007

Biggest thing that Clickteam need to implement at the moment, is a code editor. It builds in C or C++ right?

Posted by Del Duio

9th June, 2007

Peblo has a good point about the GOTW award. You can win won just with strategic submitting of crappy games.

Tis' a science for which I have yet to master, but try!

I think one reason less games are being submitted, and I've said it before, is that more people may be taking longer on making their games so they can make them better overall.

I will say that although people think the GOTW is flawed (and it most likely is), it's not an award that everyone thinks is crap to win. A game that wins GOTW for one stays on a list that a lot of newcomers to the site might go to first- hence your award-winning game has a much better shot of being downloaded than a non-winner that disappears from the public eye.

How about they impliment a thumbs up system ONLY. No tumbs down. The reason? Say if a game gets 25 or more thumbs up, then that game gets added to a GOTW-like "best games" list? This would eliminate weeks where all the entries aren't that good from getting on that list, and also those weeks where you have two (or more) high-caliber games competeing against each other for a shot at a single place on the list.

Posted by Hill Gigas

9th June, 2007

I agree about the thumbs up/down system. Eliminate the thumbs down. All sensible people on this site either give a thumbs up or don't vote at all. Only the brats vote thumbs down. Need proof? Go look at ANY of your favorite games, they all have about the same number of down votes. That's because there are a few people who vote down to every game they see just for the sake of being nasty.

Posted by Hill Gigas

9th June, 2007

Oh yeah, and why don't you replace the GOTW with a GOTM (Game of the Month) instead, and award 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place. That would ensure more entries and make it a bigger event, AND be less work for admins to keep up with.

Posted by Del Duio

9th June, 2007

Also, is it possible to list on your downloads if a game has won a prize? (GOTW, Christmas Contest, GOTM, etc?)

I think it'd be cool to see a little awards section on a game's download page.

Posted by Peblo

9th June, 2007

A favorites list under each users profile would help games from sinking forever into the downloads section.

Posted by Kablobah

10th June, 2007

It's not a very noob-friendly place. A lot of noobs are probably too scared to post their stuff because more advanced clickers will laugh and/or say mean things. Maybe keep that in check?

Posted by alastair john jack

10th June, 2007

Shroomlock's and Del Duio's suggestions are the best!

Posted by Johnny Look

10th June, 2007

I agree with Shroomlock about the GOTM.

Posted by Neuro

10th June, 2007

Me too. GOTM would work very well, and I like Peblo's idea of a favourites list.

The weekly competition just seems like it's either a contest with one strong game and several weak games, or just several weak games. It makes it interesting with more good games (like Chalk vs Alex Adventure), but it just doesn't happen often enough.

GOTM FTW

Posted by Knudde (Shab)

10th June, 2007

I can tell you this, GOTW isn't going anywhere. It's a TDC institution, as flawed as it is. Adding another thing to the mix is always possible though, though even with a GOTM we'd still likely have a few of the problems that GOTW has.

Posted by The Track Master

10th June, 2007

I agree completely with Kablobah. I also want to see a better interface. It's okay as it is, but it needs a bit of tweaking...

Posted by Ricky

10th June, 2007

The community is human, humans are flawed, therefore, the community is inevibdably flawed. I'm not saying its a bad idea to try to make things better, but its never going to be perfect

Posted by Ricky

11th June, 2007

what if we had a NO GAME vote on our Gotw poll. if "No Game" beats the others in votes, there will be no Gotw that week.

Posted by markno2

11th June, 2007

I don't really think Game Of The Month would be a good idea. A month is too long to wait (it is the Daily Click after all

). GOTW is a good incentive for releasing a game, and if it were GOTM many developers would stash their games away longer or maybe we'd not see them at all. We just need more games.

Posted by Neuro

11th June, 2007

Hey, perhaps all the GOTW's could add up to a GOTM? Perhaps with only the 4 GOTW winners? I think that'd make things interesting... winning a GOTW would be good, and it'd still be like normal, but winning over the month is something to be more proud of

Posted by markno2

11th June, 2007

That would be good, like a mega-GOTW

Posted by Ricky

11th June, 2007

I like Neuro's ideah.

Posted by Ricky

11th June, 2007

idea >_>

Posted by Knudde (Shab)

11th June, 2007

Wait, so we base the GOTM system on the GOTW system that everyone just spent 30 comments tearing apart? At least be consistant

Posted by alastair john jack

12th June, 2007

There should be a section of the site that shows games that are worthy of being played.

Posted by

12th June, 2007

That would be what this is supposed to be:
http://www.create-games.com/gotw.asp

Posted by

12th June, 2007

I think we need better admins.

Posted by Hayo

14th June, 2007

Maybe people should be able to nominate a game for the GOTM or GOTY poll.

Posted by »xerus

14th June, 2007

100 comments... My God.

Posted by Neuro

14th June, 2007

A successful talking topic, then.

Somehow I knew the 100th comment would be commenting on the fact that there are 100 comments, or would be as the 100th comment is commented upon.

So all Xibs are Trebs, but not all Grebs are Xibs, and only some Trebs are Grebs.

Posted by The Chris Street

14th June, 2007

"How about they impliment a thumbs up system ONLY. No tumbs down. The reason? Say if a game gets 25 or more thumbs up, then that game gets added to a GOTW-like "best games" list? This would eliminate weeks where all the entries aren't that good from getting on that list, and also those weeks where you have two (or more) high-caliber games competeing against each other for a shot at a single place on the list. "

Tis is a great idea, I'll run it past Rikus

Posted by chrilley

15th June, 2007

Yay!

Posted by Hill Gigas

20th June, 2007

Or even go a step further and have a bronze, silver and gold list for games that earn 25, 50, and 100 thumbs respectively.

Posted by yuyu

27th June, 2007

Something good was said at the start, The communities addicted platformers and boring 2d games. So much more is possible with MMF but people choose to stick with boring concepts because they know they can win GOTW. I also like Shroomlocks idea. good work shroomlock.

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