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Assault Andy

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2nd October, 2004 at 23:38:08 -

It is extremely annoying when people upload their games and use installers. It means that I cannont simply delete their game when I am done playing it, I have to go to the add/remove programs unless I want to screw my computer up more. Everyone should use zips more often. Installers should only be used for shareware or really, really, really kick-arse games\apps. I also especially hate that built-in TGF installer.

Please use more zips instead of installers.

 
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2nd October, 2004 at 23:53:23 -

I hate when people use installers, they add to the size and are just annoying to get rid of.

 
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3rd October, 2004 at 03:10:05 -

i don't like when i have to launch twice my windows emulator just to play a game

 
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ShadowCaster

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3rd October, 2004 at 03:22:03 -

If there are a lot of files and the game/app is quite large then installers are good. But if it's just the 1 MMF EXE file then it's pretty useless, yeah.

At least they usually remove all the registry entries and files that were created by the software itself. Though this comment doesnt really translate to TGF games since most people wouldnt program that into their installers anyway

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Dr. James MD

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3rd October, 2004 at 07:24:43 -

yea but do you know what I hate? non-clickers and computer illiterates who email me asking why my game dosnt work on thier computer. so then i have to guide them to be able to view DLL files and put them in either the games folder of the system folder. try doing that 4 times a day... seriously.

installers are fine where big games are concerned, where files HAVE to be in the right place. including those hidden/system files.

 
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3rd October, 2004 at 08:53:49 -

Um, it's not the non-clickers fault, how are they meant to know that the DLL is required? If you use an installer, install the DLL to the same directory as the EXE. If you use a ZIP, just throw in the DLL there too. And you should have a notice on your website saying how to solve any DLL related problems (not that there would be any if you did your DLL installs right).

 
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AsparagusTrevor

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3rd October, 2004 at 10:10:12 -

I agree, I hate installers for simple games, what pisses me off most though is when the game installs and no shortcut is given, so you have to end up finding the actual EXE to run it. This seems to happen most with TGF installers.

 
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Jamesbuc



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3rd October, 2004 at 11:03:53 -

It depends really just like ShadowCaster said. If there are lots of bitty files, all needed for the game then an installer is good.

But if its a small game that only has one or two files to make it work then its pointless and wasteful.

 
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醤油の兵士

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3rd October, 2004 at 12:28:45 -

As long as it includes an uninstaller, I'm fine with it.
I hate zips, having to extract them then running them, then deleting them

 
As a boy, I wanted to be a train. I didn’t realize this was unusual—that other kids played with trains, not as them.

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3rd October, 2004 at 19:38:33 -

Good thimngs about zip's such as winzip isn they install to c:\Unzipped
so instead of having C:\mygame or C:\program files\mygame or c:\program files\joesproductions\mygame everything is kept in ONE directory not scattered across your computer, thats the thing that really pisses me off about installers, you can choose a different directory but it gets quite annoying.

 
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醤油の兵士

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3rd October, 2004 at 20:44:33 -

But not everyone uses winzip personally, winzip is the worst program I've ever used, I just use zipfldr.dll and 7-zip. everyone should use 7-zip over zip or rar or ace

 
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3rd October, 2004 at 20:47:45 -

I never use WInzip either, I just use the default Windows XP zip handling, which treats the zip like a normal folder. It's just a lot quicker that way, and you don't have to extract a lot of things before running them.

 
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Muggus

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3rd October, 2004 at 21:29:34 -

I rarely unzip games at all unless they are particularly good and deserve to be put on my hardisk. So installers piss me off to no end. Especially for shitty little games when all the installer is making the game bigger than it needs to be.

 
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Jamesbuc



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4th October, 2004 at 01:44:14 -

Im starting to get Annoyed every time I go though the unzipped folder list.

How many- 1,000 to 2,000

 
I met a budgie called percy. He likes chicken...

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Jigen



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4th October, 2004 at 05:02:43 -

It saves my private time when i send
some games with installers.
All noobs who try to play my game, isnīt able to do
it, because they donīt have, or they are
not able to extract them.

Well crap forget what i said, altough i shouldnīt
push that reply button now..

too late..

 
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Assault Andy

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4th October, 2004 at 06:37:46 -

too late..
You would of had to pressed reply, then typed that at lightning speed unless your internet connection is as dull as a rock.

 
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David Newton (DavidN)

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4th October, 2004 at 08:41:28 -

As long as you include the necessary DLLs in the zip, don't the programs work anyway?

I far prefer zipped files, even if subdirectories are needed - I can open a ZIP, drag the contents out to my ClickGames folder, and play. With an installer I have to (in the worst case) unzip the file, run the installer, type the directory that I want to install it in (as for some reason the GF installer always wants to put things in my Windows directory) and install from there. It doesn't sound like much, but it's a huge amount more time than using the first method.

 
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Tigerworks

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4th October, 2004 at 12:57:53 -

If you have all files needed in a zip and you just double click the EXE, it only extracts that file to run it. If the user doesn't have the DLL preinstalled they will get a missing DLL error running it straight from the zip. Hopefully most people have the intelligence to extract it all to a folder.

Aside from the mass-moaning about installers, I have to say an installer is MUCH more convenient for installing extension. What annoys me most is that loads of extension creators zip their extensions in a directory, so you can't just extract it to Programs\Extensions - it would end up in Programs\Extensions\MyObject\ or something and not work. You have either extract to a temporary location or drag and drop out the zip, both of which involve locating the Extensions directory in Windows. Installers can even auto detect MMF's directory so it's just click-click-click and the extension is in the right place. Bah!

 
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David Newton (DavidN)

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4th October, 2004 at 13:18:17 -

Installers are fine for other things - just not Click games which don't need any files outside of a root and subdirectories.

I miss the DOS days when every program was like that. When I were a lad...

 
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4th October, 2004 at 14:46:49 -

Well atleast with installers that I make, it makes them smaller, then even smaller with winzip. Only game I had a problem with that was Diamond END.

Installers work better when you have more then just 1 single file. Because it compresses each file as one, rather then just 1 EXE, which doesnt compress well.

 
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4th October, 2004 at 18:45:47 -

I learned early on that nobody likes installers, it even annoys me now to install a game and search for the exe like asparagus trevor mentioned.
Even with shortcuts and stuff it makes my start list bigger and takes more time than neccesary.

 
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4th October, 2004 at 19:11:37 -

I have no problem with installers, I actually perfer them more often, they are alot more organized, expecially when you have a computer as organized as mine. When it comes to zips, they have a minor chance of currupted (EXPECIALLY ON DAILUP, & I'm not the only person who had this problem when I had dailup, so dont go there!) Then there is the fact that installers, which may not be extremly useful for click games, are able to trigger patches to install or not, by checking if the main installer installed in the past. Installers are also make it alot easyer to uninstall games for people who are computer litterit like 99.9% of all my friends. Zip's should be used for things like maybe extra extention files, minor programs, or things like extra dll files. Now I can see where your comming from, because more then 70% of the people at DC make games that shouldnt even use zip's, thats how deserving they are, but again, there are games here at DC like Enternal Daughter that would be accessable in & installer. Not not to go around saying my games are extremly good, & above the rest, but my newer game's are good for installers. Like PPIO & Diamond END.

 
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17th October, 2004 at 11:41:13 -

I must ask why everyone has trouble uninstalling a game that includes an install file? I merely select "uninstall" and my PC does the rest. Nice and simple no? While I do think if your going to use an installer, your game should be top notch I must point out the obvious. One would argue that professional PC games CAN have install programs because they are for lack of a better word professionally made, but then again how many times have you picked up a PC title made by a "big name developer" that sucked more ass than bush in a debate? My point, although possible a bit garbled, is that just like when buying a "professional" game you should do your home work before hand. Read some reviews, check out the authors website, read about it in the forums. Then if you still think the game will be cool then download it, and if it takes a few seconds more of your time...oh well.

 
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AsparagusTrevor

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17th October, 2004 at 11:50:03 -

But professional games, even if they suck, usually have many data files and folders and files that need to be installed in the registry, whereas most of the time, Klik games are just one or two files that really don't need installing.

 
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Bo Fu



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17th October, 2004 at 22:02:10 -

It's an on-and-off thing. I won't use an installer if the game is something like "KILLIGN DETH GUY!!!!1111".

I REALLY hate it when people use installers for short little demos. But some of this anti-installer business is ridiculous - some larger games should have installers, and they DO help people who aren't Klikkers play the game.

I don't like having to unzip whole paths and folders and crap, especially because any DECENT archival programs cost money.

 
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23rd October, 2004 at 10:24:36 -

My game was like 2.5 mb big and it got cropped to 250 kb with Install Creator!
For packaging, an installer would be great, but I agree that it's REALLY annoying for a small game or a bad game.

 
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23rd October, 2004 at 10:26:43 -

And it probably would've been 100k in an archive file.

 
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DaVince

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23rd October, 2004 at 12:13:38 -

Nah, I don't fink so. I tried, but the installer already uses max compression.

 
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23rd October, 2004 at 12:19:37 -

...what? There's absolutely no way the game plus the installer is going to be smaller than some other form of compression.

 
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Batchman



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23rd October, 2004 at 12:41:54 -

want max compression ? try tarball bzipped 2

 
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Bo Fu



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24th October, 2004 at 01:36:06 -

I like being able to play a game in the start menu... and if I hate it, I can uninstall it from the same menu!

Still, let's face it... most games are one file. Installers have their place in the click world, though.

WinACE has great compression - how does Tarball Bzipped 2 compare with it?

 
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25th October, 2004 at 03:11:10 -

I once downloaded a 400 kb installer and when I installed it, it became 400 MB! The program didn't work either (naturally).
And how can you Bzip a file? And is it better than Gzipped files?

 
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29th October, 2004 at 15:37:20 -

Surely the solution is simple? Give people a choice -- make an installer and a zip file.

 
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AsparagusTrevor

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29th October, 2004 at 15:57:27 -

Sound idea if you've got the webspace to have versions.

 
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Kris

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29th October, 2004 at 17:22:39 -

7zip has the best compression so far, you should try that

 
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醤油の兵士

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29th October, 2004 at 22:00:48 -

My Quick Calculations:

Tar:4.34 MB - 103%
Uncompressed: 4.26 MB - 100%
Tar Unix:2.88 MB - 68%
Zip (UU Encoded):2.70 MB - 63%
LHA: 1.99 MB - 47%
Sit:1.97 MB - 46%
Tar Gzip:1.95 MB - 45%
Zip:1.87 MB - 44%
Tar Bzip2:1.85 MB - 43%
Install Creator:1.68 MB - 39%
Rar:1.65 MB - 38%
SitX:1.57 MB - 37%
7-zip:1.28 MB - 30%

In order of worst to best, I made sure the files to archive contained similar amounts of multiple data types, it had a few CCA's, EXE's, JPG's, BMP'S, MID's, and TXT's. So Install Creator is actually one of the best and convenient ways to compress it, as most people don't have 7-zip, Stuffit, or WinRAR. Sorry WinaCE is excluded, but I don't have a compressor for that.

Edit: Hey, just as aladdin systems claims, SitX is one of the best compression formats

Image Edited by the Author.

 
As a boy, I wanted to be a train. I didn’t realize this was unusual—that other kids played with trains, not as them.

AsparagusTrevor

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Game of the Week WinnerHas Donated, Thank You!VIP MemberEvil kliker
29th October, 2004 at 22:08:47 -

It's a shame Zips are the standard, cos basically it sucks.

 
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Batchman



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30th October, 2004 at 08:46:51 -

while every format work in several OSes, install creator only works on Windows ...

 
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醤油の兵士

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1st November, 2004 at 01:33:26 -

did a few more:

ACE: 1.37 MB - 32%
CAB: 1.41 MB - 33%
JAR: 577 KB!?! - 12% ... I think windows got that size wrong or something...

 
As a boy, I wanted to be a train. I didn’t realize this was unusual—that other kids played with trains, not as them.

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1st November, 2004 at 12:23:32 -

7-zip has a self-extractor

 
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醤油の兵士

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1st November, 2004 at 18:35:30 -

so does just about everything else o_O

 
As a boy, I wanted to be a train. I didn’t realize this was unusual—that other kids played with trains, not as them.

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1st November, 2004 at 23:42:19 -

Installers are fine with me as long as I can uninstall them.

 
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AndyUK

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2nd November, 2004 at 09:36:57 -

compression varies depending on both the program you are using and the file being compressed, 100 midi files can be zipped to 25k but an mp3 will be about2% smaller.

I don't know if files inside a click game folder vary like this.

 
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