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Yami



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21st January, 2011 at 07:34:26 -

I was going to leave a comment on the news post about Tormishire being canceled, but the news post was deleted before I was able to submit what I wanted to say. I hardly ever leave comments on here, but I still visit the site every now and then. Basically there's some things I want to say that I think are worth mentioning, because I don't see anybody else talking about this kind of stuff.

Project Pages
First of all, as far as Tormishire being canceled I can't say that I'm not surprised. The project page is a good idea, but people should most likely not make a project page until their game is almost complete. Especially when there's only 3 pages out of 51 that are completed projects. I think that if you do this then you will take a lot of pressure off of yourself, because if you don't finish the game then it's not that big of a deal AND you didn't set yourself up to disappoint a lot of people who were excited about it. So basically the lesson is, don't create a lot of hype for your game until it's complete or almost done.

Criticism
As someone who's an artist going to college, every time I turn in a piece of work we have critics where everyone in class says what they do and don't like about everyone's work. I go into this situation with an open mind knowing that not everybody is going to like my piece and I'm okay with that. If someone doesn't like something of mine I never take it personal, because that's their opinion and I can say, well I don't agree with you and that be it. The reason I say this is because it seems like the same people keep getting into debates. My only response to that is, "Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning.". And do these arguments really mean anything? Chances are that person is still going to disagree and you both just wasted a lot of time bickering instead of agreeing to disagree.

It really does seem like the admins are in an awkward situation where it doesn't matter what they do, because not everyone is going to agree and that's it. I know my solution isn't a realistic one, because I would just let these people argue and not delete their comments since they in turn are the ones destroying their reputation here. I believe that having debates are good and needed. I also think that if people take my advice on criticism then a lot of these arguments would not even exist. If you can't take criticism then maybe you shouldn't make games, because like I said, not everyone is going to like your stuff. I also believe that sometimes people put it upon themselves, because they do take it personal when they shouldn't.

 
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Hagar

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You've Been Circy'd!Teddy Bear
21st January, 2011 at 11:19:25 -

Here are my thoughts.

James was here years ago, and was a good guy to have around on the forums (at least he used to post!). Some people like him/some people don't, that's just part of life. I never had anything against him, and I think regardless of your personal viewpoint (which to be honest has in my opinion nothing to do with his work!) it's a sad day to see yet another fairly well known click dude call it quits, whether it from the game making hobby or the community or both.

I come from an engineering academic way of life, which to be honest can be quite vicious (becoming single has made me particularly over critical lately)! People may try to take your latest idea/paper apart but at the end of the day, it is never personal and I think it's a good thing. Peer review should not be based on personal experience with the individual but the work at hand. If we never have any form of peer review everything will be "AWESOME!" and we are never going to get any better at what we do.

I guess what I am trying to say is, by all means criticise but try to keep it above the belt! Also some people on here are really miserable , even more miserable than me! haha.

On a side note I am all for keeping the site family friendly, but I am also against over moderation. I have no idea what happened in that news post after about post 41 (which was me discussing the benefit of substantial beards I think) so I cannot really pass judgement.

Edited by an Administrator

 
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Hayo

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21st January, 2011 at 13:42:37 -

On the other hand, about 10% of the comments in that newspost were about James or Tormishire (I mean, he does this stuff all the time). The rest of the heated comments were the product of something that has been building up over the last weeks and had nothing to do with the subject of the newspost.

 
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s-m-r

Slow-Motion Riot

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Candle
21st January, 2011 at 13:43:51 -

I'd also like to chip in and say that I think it was awesome that Jon Lambert invited the community for suggestions on our expectations. If people honestly care about what happens here, I recommend they take him up on his offer and send him a PM with their thoughts.

In terms of Project Pages, I think they are set up well, and are not just about building up the hype. Some developers (and I'm talking about members of the community, here) are looking for guidance on where their projects can go; they may see a wide variety of choices but may need some suggestions on where to go next. Some are looking for positive reinforcement. Both are useful, but not always the same stage of the development cycle. Lending someone some encouragement during a particularly difficult stage of the project can be the one thing that keeps someone going, and if the Project Pages are where people can interact about them, then I'm all for it.

(offering TDC points for a new project page is just silly, though. )

Regarding Criticism: yeah, people need a thicker skin. That does not mean one bites back with even more ferocity. That means one considers the comment in the context of the discussion, and responds accordingly. Is it a personal attack? Then shrug it off; chances are very likely the other person doesn't even know you or anything about you. Is it a useful critique or some kind of encouragement? Then respond appropriately. Of course, one can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, and even garden slugs like beer...But I may be straying from the point just a bit.

I think the difficult issues reflected in recent discussions (and their resulting breakdown) stem from certain people lacking basic social skills, which is terribly unfortunate. The entire community suffers when that persists.

 
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Hagar

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You've Been Circy'd!Teddy Bear
21st January, 2011 at 14:39:40 -

I have already sent Jon an pm . I can not help thinking "click morale" is rather low but perhaps it's just me being nostalgic for the old days, I dont know...

I am hoping the retro console compo games and the countdown will help cheer things up, get people inspired and get people working on their own games.

@Hayo: I do kind of suspect he will be back but you never know. I think it is impossible to ever give clicking up, one day it will draw you back...

Edited by an Administrator

 
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Duncan

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VIP Member
21st January, 2011 at 15:11:57 -

There's too little front page content! The first hint of something other than the occasional featured game or project, and the userbase explodes in ecstasy. Now if we had a regular trickle of this stuff, like we used to be able get at Total Klik or Klikkety Klik or Klik Me or Planet Klik, or The Free Games Factor, or Cafe Lite, our passions might be spread a bit thinner.

The project pages are the best. All those old sites had user-by-user devlogs, and these prominent on the front page, meaning we had new content even when the admins were all on holiday. This is a good example of a project page used as a proper devlog: http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=2053



 
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Jon Lambert

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21st January, 2011 at 15:13:26 -


Originally Posted by Swiss Hagar
On a side note I am all for keeping the site family friendly, but I am also against over moderation. I have no idea what happened in that news post after about post 41 (which was me discussing the benefit of substantial beards I think) so I cannot really pass judgement.

That can be found here:

http://www.jonhlambert.com/The%20Daily%20Click%20-%20News.htm

As far as PMs go, I've received about 12 so far and am still accepting more. These PMs will be critical in future policies and such and the like. I've got school and then work right after though so most of that policy-making won't be done for another 9 hours or so.

 
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The Chris Street

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21st January, 2011 at 15:38:17 -

The thing is, back in the day with the original TGF and MMF, you couldn't really sell your products at an exceptionally high standard. Well, you could but you'd have to be super talented to get anywhere with it. Back in the day, TDC members were content with just submitting stuff to TDC and feeling proud they'd actually managed to finish (or not finish in many cases) a project

Now though, MMF2 is extremely advanced and users are finding it possible to get into the selling industry with relative ease. Case in point: The iPhone runtime. When that's released I think we'll see an explosion in the Apple marketplace, full of klik games, and which can potentially be quite profitable. Clickteam are making it easier for us than ever before to make a name for ourselves, and we're focussing on massive projects as a result, which means, in general, quieter times here.

As for Boss Baddie, they've never proclaimed themselves to be brilliant. They never hype up their work. I have to admit I rarely visit their website, or their blog, but I'm still concious they are around. Granted, they probably made mistakes in not releasing demos so you could sample their work, but on the flip side of the coin, their games were usually dirt cheap and worth a dabble.

The community has too many expectations of other games these days. So while you're waiting for these big games, it doesn't hurt to make, in the meantime, some games yourselves

 
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Ski

TDC is my stress ball

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Candy Cane
21st January, 2011 at 15:43:59 -

"As for Boss Baddie, they've never proclaimed themselves to be brilliant. They never hype up their work"

Er... okay then. Id say over hyping their games is James's main flaw.

 
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The Chris Street

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21st January, 2011 at 15:47:34 -

Theres a difference between hyping and being proud of your work I think the community also plays its part in hyping up someone elses product.

 
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Ski

TDC is my stress ball

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Candy Cane
21st January, 2011 at 16:01:50 -

Yes there's a difference, but you're wrong. Tormishire is probably one of the most over hyped projects on this site.

 
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OMC

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21st January, 2011 at 16:04:05 -

Well, hopefully we won't have to talk about it anymore, since it's been declared dead.

 

  		
  		

Ski

TDC is my stress ball

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Candy Cane
21st January, 2011 at 16:13:41 -


For the win

 
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Phredreeke

Don't listen to this idiot

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You've Been Circy'd!VIP MemberPS3 Owner
21st January, 2011 at 17:15:30 -


Originally Posted by Chris Street
The thing is, back in the day with the original TGF and MMF, you couldn't really sell your products at an exceptionally high standard.



You're right. MMF2 games are getting too good. We need to lower our standards. Lets all ditch MMF2 and start working with this instead: http://bataribasic.com/

 
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -

Make some more box arts damnit!
http://create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=285363

Yami



Registered
  23/12/2003
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21st January, 2011 at 18:38:39 -

@s-m-r

I agree with what you said about the Project Pages and do think it's a good idea. It's one of the main pages that I check when I visit the site. I guess what I was trying to say was this. If your game is not that big then by all means create one. However, if it's an ambitious project that you don't know when you're going to complete, just know that you're taking a risk when you do make one and I think Tormishire is a good example of how that can go wrong.

@Chris Street
Exactly, the community plays a part in hyping a game, but that's only because the creator is giving out information for them to hype about. I think Adam has a good point about Tormishire being the most over hyped project on this site and I think a lot of that has to do with how long it's been up on the project pages (since 2007). If you're making a project page and then your game doesn't come out until several years later, chances are your game may not ever meet the hype or expectations that you set out for everyone, because they've been waiting for so long to play the game.

 
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