The NFL regular season kicks off on Thursday night - it's so exciting!
And for those of us in the UK, there's some great news I just found out:
Sunday night football will be available on freeview after all - only now it's on Channel 4 instead of five (but still with Mike Carlson ). I really hope it's still advert-free.
Anyway, my fantasy draft is in 1 hour, so I need to go over my strategy...
Originally Posted by OldManClayton A pre-season game replaced the only show I watch the other day.
I was mildly irritated.
Same here. I hate how sports such as football seem to take priority in the UK, just for the hooligans who go crazy over it, get drunk, get loud and piss in the streets. Makes me ashamed of Brits sometimes.
The BBC effectively killed robot wars due to scheduling prioritising sport over it, so I also hate sports programs taking over air time .
Especially when it was TENNIS they kept replacing it with and putting robot wars on at like 1am. If I had my way I would ban tennis and Cliff Richards in equal measure - for the good of mankind.
I remember Robot Wars as a kid. To this day I still love robot battle competitions. Not that they ever air on any of the channels I watch, though.
@Adam: We all love different things. You may get excited for a new Loco Roco (If they ever come out with another) I may get excited by... whatever I usually get excited for, and Sketchy gets excited for sports. There's nothing wrong with loving one thing or another.
I love how sports is always on the t.v. - sports to me is exceptionally important since it is about man competing with fellow man (or women v woman!), and this is something everyone in the human race should be exposed to. Competition is what drives this species forwards, such as designing the motor car or sticking men on the moon.
I think we can reschedule the odd episode of Corrie or Robot Wars to help the species survive
Originally Posted by Marko I love how sports is always on the t.v. - sports to me is exceptionally important since it is about man competing with fellow man (or women v woman!), and this is something everyone in the human race should be exposed to. Competition is what drives this species forwards, such as designing the motor car or sticking men on the moon.
I think we can reschedule the odd episode of Corrie or Robot Wars to help the species survive
You would rather have TENNIS & Cliff Richards singing than robot wars?
Most people are not competitive about sports though, and the demographic of sports fans falls into the following groups:
1) People that sit down the pub giving half drunk ramblings as to what the team manager should be doing
2) People that sit on their arse on the sofa, giving half drunk advice/insults to the tv.
3) People that hold season tickets and go to the game on a Saturday and shout half drunk ramblings/insults at the pitch.
4) (A very small proportion) People that actually do sports (i.e. are competitive) rather than the above.
Plus I think you will find engineering and knowledge allowed the creation of the car and space program, with the latter spurred on by the ruskies granted .
Sorry to get arsey about sports, but all British TV focuses on is Sports, Reality TV (a huge crock of ...), Soaps and how to become famous with little talent (have any of them ever played an instrument?).
There is hardly anything to spur the kids on to engineering/academia these days and as an engineer I can tell you the situation is grim, student numbers are dropping - people are just not interested, one guy I met even wants to try the stardom route. Even the Christmas lectures are uninspiring these days, and apart from the new lame Scrapheap challenge there is nothing to inspire future academics and engineers.
I guess the species will survive when all we have are sportsmen/sportswomen/PE teachers, people that can "sing" but not play an instrument, and when the power stations fail, buildings start falling apart, hospital machinery goes off I presume these people will be competent enough to fix it all?
Originally Posted by W3R3W00F I remember Robot Wars as a kid. To this day I still love robot battle competitions. Not that they ever air on any of the channels I watch, though.
@Adam: We all love different things. You may get excited for a new Loco Roco (If they ever come out with another) I may get excited by... whatever I usually get excited for, and Sketchy gets excited for sports. There's nothing wrong with loving one thing or another.
Edit: Verification fix.
Yeah, you're completely missing my point about sports taking priority on UK Television, and the affect it has on the nation and it's fans.
Well, if more people enjoy sports in the UK, then TV would obviously give more priority to it. Sports, like computer games and music, are useless to society, but someone out there enjoys it and will be happy to do it.
I, for one, am happy that the sports channel costs more, so I get to see other things on TV. Not that there's really anything on TV anymore.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Sports are not useless to society - they're hugely important.
In the UK we have rapidly rising rates of obesity, and child obesity in particular (catching up to the USA). The cost to tax payers is going to be immense, as obesity and general lack of physical activity will lead to all manner of health problems (plus it's a common "disability", preventing people from working).
Then there are all the other positive aspects to sport - learning teamwork, leadership, competitiveness, good sportsmanship, etc.
The more children are exposed to sports (be it on TV or wherever), the more likely they are to want to try them, which can only be a good thing.
Re: Football Hooligans -
I think there's a section of society who just like getting drunk, getting loud, and pissing in the streets - sport is merely an excuse. If you take away football they'll just find something else (maybe even Robot Wars).
Re: Robot Wars -
I loved that show too (and the episode of Spaced where they make robots). Does the competition still exist, just not televised any more?
Two things ruined it for me:
1. Jonathan Pearce
2. The strict rules on weapons vs no rules on armor. The only robot that ever caused serious damage was Hypnodisc, and even that was completely harmless against all but the most flimsily constructed robots.
Also, I felt it was quite inappropriate the way the female co-presenter flirted with young boys on the show.
I think my fantasy team is not going to do too well this year:
Tom Brady (big mistake - should have got a RB)
Beanie Wells (automatically picked when my broadband disconnected during the live draft!)
Clinton Portis (plus the rest of the 'skins backfield for when he gets injured - ie.week2)
Hines Ward (legend!)
Devin Aromashodu (the next brandon marshall - ie. legend in the making)
Mike Sims-Walker (meh)
Greg Olsen (meh)
Jeff Reed (kicker)
Bears DST (oh dear...)
Bear in mind I'm in a very deep league (20 teams).
Having a quick look around, it turns out the people who watch sports on TV generally are the obese nicotine addicts with weak knees and an IQ handicap.
I'm not saying sports are useless - just that UK TV focusses on hardly anything else bar sports, soaps and reality tv. Home grown engineers are seriously thin on the ground. Sooner or later we will have no one capable of doing anything remotely technical.
I like to play golf and badminton . I have disliked football since I was a kid, but I was commonly outside building things from trolleys (to ride down big hills) to dens ( I once dug a 6 x 5 x 5 foot deep hole in my parents back garden trying to make an underground den. My parents was not amused but they let me carry on, and there is a still a recess in the ground now where it was! ). You just do not see kids outside anymore.
@Hayo: I buggered my right knee up :/, but I do not watch sports, my IQ measured at school (because I was pissing about all the time, getting A's in everything bar French & Religious Education of which I was commonly failing) makes me a lot smarter than the average bear boo boo!
Certainly not true. I have a pretty wide imagination, and though I'm not a humongous sports fan I enjoy football to a small degree, but not to the point of obsession. If it's on I might watch a little bit of it. I also like rugby a bit; it's easier to understand than handegg. My favorite sport though is bowling. It's rather addicting. My worst is any type of racing event, save the ones in the olympics.
Thinking and/or saying one has to have a limited imagination to enjoy sports is, not only a fallacy, but pretty dense, concerning there are, oh, approximately 6.8 billion people on earth.
But I digress; I've said enough. Good day, or something.
Egon Spengler award
"Very good, W3R3W00F. Short, but pointless."
If you're going to quote a figure, you should at least compare it to something .
It's like saying I like apples, and the world's population is 6.8 billion. Quote it against the estimate number of sports fans or something to make a valid point (would probably be an estimate off a survey or something).
Anyway I digress, but I have been itching to use that quote!
I'm pretty sure i get what W3R3W00F is saying - he's referencing how popular sport is with the world's population. Saying that, i love the Egon quote, i'd forgotten he said that in the film
LOL at this thread . I can not see the point of watching sports as I have mentioned before. Do we have televised competitive bin men? Its just watching a bunch of extremely over paid arrogant so and so's do their job in my opinion .
Plus I remember Beckham discussing why they lost the game. It was something along the lines of "We did not get more goals than the other side, and that was that". No wonder he did not become the next great detective with skills like that!
@Marko: Egon is pure win, its one of favourite lines from any movie .
It's like those ink-blot personality tests.
If you watch a football game and all you see is a bunch of guys kicking a ball around a field, then that's equivalent to you looking at an ink blot and not being able to see anything but a bit of ink on some paper. It probably means you're really messed up, like maybe a psychopath, or you want to have sex with your own mother, or something...
Actually, I think it helps a lot if you play a sport yourself (preferably to a reasonably high standard). That way you know what to look for when you're watching on TV or whatever, and are more able to appreciate skill when you see it.
Having said that, some things just don't work as spectator sports. I love playing badminton, and it's certainly a much deeper and generally better sport than tennis for example (much greater variety of strokes; longer, faster and more tactical rallies; deception; etc) - but I just don't enjoy watching it on TV very much.
I like going to watch hockey games, but it just doesn't work on TV - mostly because you can't follow the puck, which is about 3 pixels in diameter.
Originally Posted by Sketchy It's like those ink-blot personality tests.
If you watch a football game and all you see is a bunch of guys kicking a ball around a field, then that's equivalent to you looking at an ink blot and not being able to see anything but a bit of ink on some paper. It probably means you're really messed up, like maybe a psychopath, or you want to have sex with your own mother, or something...
Did I get personal Sketchy? I have a GF, 3 cars, and soon 3 degrees (including a doctorate). Not too bad for 25 and I have also worked in Industry before being invited back to do my doctorate. Just because someone does not find enjoyment from watching sports does not make them messed up. I play golf, snooker and badminton and I am also thinking of buying an old montego to go banger racing in
My point about Beckham was in comparing let's say his wages to let's say a top cancer surgeon or consultant. Whom do you think should get paid more? What is the situation in real life?
Banger racing sounds fun - a Montego though? I'd have thought an old Jag would be ideal - cheap, big & heavy, powerful...
The bit about sportsmen being overpaid, I agree with - but it's not just them. It seems that in general, the more demanding/unpleasant/worthwhile the job, the less you get paid.
I could not bring myself to smash up an old jag, granada or Rover P6 V8 even if they are the best cars for the job.
The montego 2 litre is surprisingly quick. Top of the line model doing 0-60 in 7.2 seconds, although I believe all banger cars must be naturally aspirated, ruling out the turbo version .
I would brace it all up and make it as strong as possible, plus it should handle better than the big 70s motors.
Originally Posted by ..::hagar::.. W3R3W00F you have won a
Egon Spengler award
"Very good, W3R3W00F. Short, but pointless."
If you're going to quote a figure, you should at least compare it to something .
It's like saying I like apples, and the world's population is 6.8 billion. Quote it against the estimate number of sports fans or something to make a valid point (would probably be an estimate off a survey or something).
Anyway I digress, but I have been itching to use that quote!
Ah, I see. Good point. Thanks for pointing that out, man. But I'm totally going to use that quote somewhere when I can, haha.
On another note I agree with Sketchy; I don't understand American Football at all, nor how my dad, along with the rest of the nation, is able to watch it. :/
I like football and I still watch f1 from time to time, but other than that I don't really care about other sports. When I'm switching channels and I come across cricket or some other sport I'm not familiar with I tend to think it's uninteresting, no to say almost pathetic.
What is happening with some people in this thread is the very same thing, except they don't like football or F1.
Really i think maybe this thread, or maybe a different thread now, should just be about liking and enjoying football. Someone can make a thread about how much they hate football/sports if it matters to them that much.
I could not bring myself to smash up an old jag, granada or Rover P6 V8 even if they are the best cars for the job.
The montego 2 litre is surprisingly quick. Top of the line model doing 0-60 in 7.2 seconds, although I believe all banger cars must be naturally aspirated, ruling out the turbo version .
I would brace it all up and make it as strong as possible, plus it should handle better than the big 70s motors.
How much rust did your Montego have, if any? Bangor racing is gooooooood
I could not bring myself to smash up an old jag, granada or Rover P6 V8 even if they are the best cars for the job.
The montego 2 litre is surprisingly quick. Top of the line model doing 0-60 in 7.2 seconds, although I believe all banger cars must be naturally aspirated, ruling out the turbo version .
I would brace it all up and make it as strong as possible, plus it should handle better than the big 70s motors.
How much rust did your Montego have, if any? Bangor racing is gooooooood
Not brought one yet, but its the car of choice for my bizarre reasoning . My dad used to go banger racing in the 70s, he used to use Morris Oxfords as they was abundant back then, built like tanks and cheap.
I just could not use a proper old car, I would end up restoring it no matter how badly rotten it was
A lot of people mock the old british leylands, they had their problems but they was not that bad at all. I did see the funnyest thing in a long time a month or two ago - a guy in a Maestro 2 litre turbo leaving a boy racer in his saxo for dust
I admire your patriotism, but those Montegos and Maestros really are crap. I went to an airshow recently and they had a bunch of them as a side exhibit - apparently they're classic cars now?!
I'm not surprised they made a few quicker models though. It's like Ford making the legendary Sierra RS Cosworth - standard Sierras were still dreadful (I should know, I learned to drive in one).
Saxos are also crap. Boy racers are funny though - they add massive sound systems, bodykits, lighting, extra-fat exhausts, etc so in the end the car is slower than it was when it left the factory, because of all the added weight.
I still think an old executive type car would be more suitable - if not a Jag, then something like a Mercedes 190E. Or a Volvo even - I remember when there were big Volvo estates in touring car racing
I guess you want front-wheel drive or banger racing?
There is something very primeval about sport which can appeal not only to your higher senses, but also to your base instincts, the animal in you. Personally, I believe anyone who does not get in touch with this side of themselves is missing something. Sport is the one thing in my life in which I can truly let my brain go and live off the actions of somebody else.
And towards Adam, who said 'I think you have to lack imagination to like sports', I would point to the following quote from Albert Camus, when asked whether he preferred the theatre or football he said "Football, without hesitation". (He of Nobel Prize winning fame.) Roald Dahl was an excellent squash player and footballer. Plato was a wrestler in the the ancient Olympics. Dalí was into his football. Pope John Paul was a goalkeeper. Did these men all lack imagination?
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman There is something very primeval about sport which can appeal not only to your higher senses, but also to your base instincts, the animal in you. Personally, I believe anyone who does not get in touch with this side of themselves is missing something. Sport is the one thing in my life in which I can truly let my brain go and live off the actions of somebody else.
And towards Adam, who said 'I think you have to lack imagination to like sports', I would point to the following quote from Albert Camus, when asked whether he preferred the theatre or football he said "Football, without hesitation". (He of Nobel Prize winning fame.) Roald Dahl was an excellent squash player and footballer. Plato was a wrestler in the the ancient Olympics. Dalí was into his football. Pope John Paul was a goalkeeper. Did these men all lack imagination?
Other things can be competitive bar sports. Scientists are particularly prone to this: Einstein was not renowned for doing sports, Oppenheimer had a severe dislike for anything physical bar sailing - I am sure there are lots more examples from both sides of the coin. Scientists/Academics are competitive about getting that paper out before Fred from University X does, I am competitive by trying to be the best engineer in my peer group
This is besides the point anyway, there is a very large difference between doing sports and watching them. I fail to see how sitting on the sofa is tapping into some base instincts, where as doing something competitive I can fully comprehend. I beat a guy at an arm wrestle, I feel like an awesome dude ready to take on the world. If I watch sports on the TV I just get bored and put a DVD on...
@Sketchy: people do slag off the BL cars more than they should do. My Dad brought a Marina brand new in 1978, expecting it to last 5 years. He brought other cars after it, but kept it is a runabout he did not mind parking wherever. Finally died from tin worm with 380,000 miles on the clock in the late 90s . Not bad for possibly the car with the worst reputation from the BL bunch . Maybe he just had one that the work force bothered to actually build correctly, god knows
That said, it did not go around corners in the rain. But I still prefer RWD
Oh and the whole point of the montego is that I dont mind smashing it up
On a side note one day I want to own/restore a Vauxhall Firenza (Droop Snoot)
Originally Posted by Matt Boothman There is something very primeval about sport which can appeal not only to your higher senses, but also to your base instincts, the animal in you. Personally, I believe anyone who does not get in touch with this side of themselves is missing something. Sport is the one thing in my life in which I can truly let my brain go and live off the actions of somebody else.
And towards Adam, who said 'I think you have to lack imagination to like sports', I would point to the following quote from Albert Camus, when asked whether he preferred the theatre or football he said "Football, without hesitation". (He of Nobel Prize winning fame.) Roald Dahl was an excellent squash player and footballer. Plato was a wrestler in the the ancient Olympics. Dalí was into his football. Pope John Paul was a goalkeeper. Did these men all lack imagination?
Other things can be competitive bar sports. Scientists are particularly prone to this: Einstein was not renowned for doing sports, Oppenheimer had a severe dislike for anything physical bar sailing - I am sure there are lots more examples from both sides of the coin. Scientists/Academics are competitive about getting that paper out before Fred from University X does, I am competitive by trying to be the best engineer in my peer group
This is besides the point anyway, there is a very large difference between doing sports and watching them. I fail to see how sitting on the sofa is tapping into some base instincts, where as doing something competitive I can fully comprehend. I beat a guy at an arm wrestle, I feel like an awesome dude ready to take on the world. If I watch sports on the TV I just get bored and put a DVD on...
There's a difference between competitiveness and sport. Chess is competitive. It's not sport. Sport must physical. It's a thing that has to be done with mind and body, like hunting, or sex, it's a thing common with all humanity. And sitting on the sofa can tap into base instincts if you let it. You say you get bored by sports on TV and put a DVD on... aren't DVDs just videos of people doing things, which you watch passively but yet take no part in? I say, if you can get emotional about a film or a piece of music, why not a sport? The difference is, sport has no script.
Anyway, no point arguing about the merits of sport when its been one of the major cornerstones of civilisation for millenia. This is a computer games site. It's fucking games on a computer, you idiots.
LOL, Sports are a cornerstone in society (especially if playing them) I will agree but there is OTHER aspect's to civilisation - something that is lacking on UK TV. Knowledge is just as important if not more, or should we all live in caves again? Can you name me a TV program that is recent on the major 5 channels and is going to inspire engineers or academics?
How does sitting on the sofa improve my fitness, increase my team work skills, sportsmanship or anything like that? Plus watching my local team just makes me facepalm as they are useless . At least watching red dwarf or something makes me laugh...
I would still rather do something than watch something. That is just the way I am. Watch a porno or have some sexy time? I know what I prefer.
There was a programme last night, on BBC, something like The Big Bang Show or somat - just basically a version of Johnny Ball's old shows but with younger presenters. But what has science got to do with anything (you keep bringing it up like it's the be all and end all)? Most of the time, people want to watch telly passively - education usually doesn't scratch that itch, because most people are using their minds either at school or at work in the daytime. But I myself do love an informative programme (I recently just bought three box sets of David Attenborough's stuff), but most people simply don't.
I am personally grateful for the amount of useful information and academic subjects that are on UK TV (mainly BBC). University Challenge, Who Do You Think You Are, them programmes with Dick Strawbridge, Attenborough, Simon Schama's history series, Coast, Scrapheap Challenge etc. Go anywhere else in the world and the situation would be a lot worse.
I keep bringing it up because I am an engineer, and to be quite frank I am quite worried. Firstly the number of students doing technical subjects is dropping year on year to do what is perceived as easier subjects, secondly research institutions are slowly running out of people competent enough to do high level research (they are basically passing away or retiring, I can assure you this IS happening. Even NASA has talked about this problem) and thirdly what is going to happen in say 30 years when there is hardly anyone left to do any research? A technological dark age. Go into any research establishment and look at the people. You will be hard pushed to find someone under 50.
Most of the time University Challenge is focussed on history or art (whenever I have watched it anyway), Dick Strawbridges new scrapheap challenge is awful, focussing on the competition and completely missing the technical aspects and technical mishaps unlike the old one which used to do both, and most of the other programs you have listed are not going to inspire research level academics/engineers.
I know it is probably worse around the world, but I would like to see Britain better than it is
For me there is a very, very big difference between real sports and watching it on TV. I completely hate sports on TV (I hate TV to begin with come to think of it) but I think real sports are very important. Personally I run 3 times a week, have a small fitness corner I use almost daily and practice caving and bujinkan. This because I enjoy it, it keeps my body in shape and because otherwise I get completely depressed and miserable (we have a small serotonin problem in the family). I don't see how watching sports on TV can have anything to do with this.
On the other hand, I envy the people who do get entertained by it.
Basically Hayo it involves attachment with players or with a team, the ability to emotionally transfer yourself from a room with a TV to the field of play. I personally find it impossible to watch a sporting match as a neutral, I always get involved with one of the sides; when they win I feel happy, when they lose I feel sad - either way I always feel something. When some people see a football pitch, they see actions, directions, emotions, history, even art. Some people just see a field with twenty-two men and a ball. Not knocking them, just different kicks for people. Playing is always the zenith of sport, but when that isn't possible, watching others do it can almost be as gratifying.
Bob Marley: "Football is a part of I - when I play, the world wakes up around me".
the ultimate sporting experience for me was the climax to the 2008 F1 season, where Hamilton looked to have lost it until 2 corners from the end, then he won the world championship - contrast of 2 very different emotions and genuinly had my heart racing
There was a good mini-series sort-of-recently, that I think would inspire the next generation of British engineers. It was called "How to build..." and featured the design and construction of nuclear submarines, jet engines, etc. It was obviously meant to showcase the few areas of engineering in which Britain is still a true world leader, and felt almost like propaganda to get young people to take up careers in the field.
The problem is, there aren't actually any engineering jobs (or soon won't be). The British automotive industry is long gone, and just two days ago, BAe cut another 1000 jobs. Plus there's talk of axing one of the two new aircraft carriers, which would mean yet more job cuts...
I think the BBC should buy the rights to "Popular Mechanics for Kids" (especially the old episodes with Elisha Cuthbert). Both entertaining and educational.
I don't think University Challenge is just focused on history and art, in as much as the questions cover a broad range of topics. However, I have noticed that the teams tend to contain fewer scientists than they used to.
And yes, the new Scrapheap Challenge sucks. It seems to be standard policy to take programs, and make them more "family-friendly" - so if something is too complicated/serious for a 10 year old, it won't be broadcast.
The new look CountryFile is a pretty good example. It always used to deliver serious news and information for farmers and rural communities. Now it's just about travel and fluffy animals...
My point about Beckham was in comparing let's say his wages to let's say a top cancer surgeon or consultant. Whom do you think should get paid more? What is the situation in real life?
If top cancer surgeons are getting paid less than top football players, you've got a real problem there From what I see, a lot of average surgeons get paid way more than good sportsmen. There's also the "moral side" of society which doesn't like medical professionals who ask for too much money for saving lives.
On the other hand, top consultants are the people who brought Enron up back when it should have crumbled. Good riddance to them for making the world a worse place for everyone but their employers.
And the way the economy works, jobs where you make a million people slightly happier pay better than jobs that change the lives of 10 people. If you're doing a job that saves millions of lives, you'll get paid a heck lot of money. Just look at the world's top billionaires. Meh, personally, I'd rather work in a comfy technical job, moderately paid for hanging around and chatting for 8 hours a day, rather than being a highly paid football player and run around 8 hours a day.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Footballers get stupidly overpaid here IMO. There is talk the premier leage in the UK is on the brink of collapse (Man U's debt from what I read was astonishing) and most other clubs are in a similar boat. Perhaps if they all go belly up it will go back to normal wages, and normal ticket prices and hopefully some homegrown players will re-emerge.
Here's the thing I don't get: If you're a millionaire footballer, who could get a job playing anywhere in the world, why the hell would you want to live in Manchester? There are plenty of other decent teams that aren't based in a city where it rains most of the year. See, David Beckham's obviously smarter than you think...
I always thought the really smart people are the ones who "work" for a couple years, and then just retire - eg. Glen Coffee decided he didn't really want to play football any more, and retired after just 1 season in the NFL. Amanda Bynes decided she didn't really want to act any more, and retired aged 24.
Originally Posted by Sketchy Here's the thing I don't get: If you're a millionaire footballer, who could get a job playing anywhere in the world, why the hell would you want to live in Manchester? There are plenty of other decent teams that aren't based in a city where it rains most of the year. See, David Beckham's obviously smarter than you think...
I always thought the really smart people are the ones who "work" for a couple years, and then just retire - eg. Glen Coffee decided he didn't really want to play football any more, and retired after just 1 season in the NFL. Amanda Bynes decided she didn't really want to act any more, and retired aged 24.
Haha - I am trying my best to retire before I am 30, dont know if I am smart enough to do so though .
Will only finish my education when I am 27 so that only gives me 3 years of work (plus 1 1/2 I did after my 2nd Degree)...
@Sketchy: They don't live in Manchester. They commute from Cheshire and North Wales. Michael Owen's house has got 20 foot high privet hedges, I've seen it. Gary Neville's house is shaped like a swastika.
And to quote the TV programme, "only fools and horses work".
In Hagar's world, 25.5 years education = 4.5 years output. It's no wonder there's no 'high level research' going on.
Can't everyone just be a farmer like Pol Pot said? He was a good fella.
If I can shift a few patents and hence royalties for my ideas, assuming I got enough pound notes coming in I will retire ASAP. Work sucks, been there got the T Shirt.
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). I really hope it's still advert-free.
.
Not that they ever air on any of the channels I watch, though. 
Edited by W3R3W00F
. I have disliked football since I was a kid, but I was commonly outside building things from trolleys (to ride down big hills) to dens ( I once dug a 6 x 5 x 5 foot deep hole in my parents back garden trying to make an underground den. My parents was not amused but they let me carry on, and there is a still a recess in the ground now where it was! 
