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15th July, 2010 at 21:22:59 -

We want to relaunch the TDC Community Project. Last time there wasn't enough structure, so we're doing it a bit differently this time around.

If you would be so kind, please fill out the survey here: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/9GB3GC7 Your submission will be anonymous unless you share your name in the survey.

Once we have some results we can sort out a plan. We hope that if we get some enthusiastic and skilled members, the game will be a serious contender for internet gamers' time. Comments and ideas are welcome by DC Mail or the last section of the survey!

At this time, we haven't even decided who the leaders of the project will be. It might be you! We'll keep you posted.

Thanks!


INFORMATION FOR NEWCOMERS
Don't want to read the whole thread? Here's a current summary.


Current Status as of Sep. 26:
-Prototype engine up and running.
-Sprite artists needed.


Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

Yami



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16th July, 2010 at 04:19:03 -

I just finished the survey. I'm quite the busy guy, but where I can't help I can easily give great advice on what works and doesn't. The best thing to do is come up with a simple idea that's fun. Then build upon that simple idea. Perhaps online is too ambitious other than presenting it in Flash. I will say this though. If you can make the game first and it's good. Then I think that's when you start to think about online features. Otherwise you can easily get too caught up with figuring out the online features and the game never be completed.

 
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Smirnoff



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16th July, 2010 at 04:25:08 -

I am very interested. I don't know how much I can contribute with coding as there are so many skilled people here, but I'd like to think my design ideas are of note. We'll see how that goes.

 
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Sgamer8t88

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16th July, 2010 at 05:59:09 -

This looks like it is definitely something i would be willing to help out with filled out the survey

 
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16th July, 2010 at 09:50:11 -

Alright, filled it out. We'll see what happens then.

 

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16th July, 2010 at 11:01:25 -

I think I confused this with an application form to enter the project. O.o

 
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16th July, 2010 at 12:21:24 -

Thanks to everyone who's filled it out so far. After a good wait, I'll probably post a tally of the answers.

I'll go ahead and say that a platformer has been the most checked genre. 81%! Also, every skill has been checked at least once.

 

  		
  		

nim



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16th July, 2010 at 14:52:24 -

I voted for an Adventure game. Platformer would be good, too. Whatever it is, don't make an RPG or directionless online chat lobby because it'll never get done.

I think the community project has a chance now. OMC is organised enough to pull it off. If it doesn't work this time...

 
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16th July, 2010 at 15:54:27 -

I think, encourage development groups is a very good idea, is something that I imagined it, because all the work is difficult for a person

 


Sephirenn

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16th July, 2010 at 17:18:00 -

I just filled it out.

I think we should lean towards a mini-game collection, which is supported by an overworld that uses the winning genre. So, for example with the current votes for platformer, we'd have a platformer overworld, and as you move around and progress in the game, you play the mini-games.

What this allows is for many people to create games for the project, but still have a co-hesive full game. The MAIN reason for doing this is that if the project starts to fall apart because tis draggign on or something, we will still have a minigame collection that we can create a quick UI for and end up with a final DC game.

 
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16th July, 2010 at 18:10:20 -

awesome I voted for adventure and platformer on my survey


 
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16th July, 2010 at 18:33:13 -

I'm liking that idea a lot, Sephirenn, and it gave me another idea.

I imagine it as a cohesive collection of mini-games (accessed from the overworld hub), with a backbone that ties them all together. I'm totally with the majority vote of platformer, so perhaps there is always this one movement engine that isn't complex, supports the basics like jumping and even moving platforms, and can be easily modified by a pretty wide skill range.

With that basic engine, rather than all collaborating on a single project, everyone can go mini-game style with their own abilities and whatnot added on to that basic movement engine, and their own levels to use those abilities in. For example, one person or team's level could be based on having a jetpack and navigating a more vertical space, another could give the player character the ability to pick up weapons and objects for a shooter or fighting action level. Levels could be as long as the maker desires, and even exist in a series of levels or entire campaigns.

This way, we get a big collection of levels that play wildly differently and each have their own personalities from whoever made them, but the game is also coherent, and forms together as a single game. Makers would not simply be playing around with a level editor, they get an opportunity to add on as little or as much as possible with coding and graphics and all that nice stuff - though I (personally) would encourage to keep it resembling the basic engine at least a little.

Besides the player character base engine, the framework would also have to include basics like a general health/lives system and simple HUD, with room for addition if a mini-game requires it. An overall objective would also be needed as a means to measure progress, like a big Star as the reward for completing each level or series of levels (whatever the mini-game entails). Things like score or tracking the time it takes to complete a mini-game would also be great, encourage a little competition.

Anyway, yeah, those are my thoughts

EDIT: Also, player character would be great if fully customizable. Head shapes, faces, masks, hair, hats, torsos, legs, tails, capes... I'm sure everyone would want to contribute at least one piece for that, we could get a potentially massive selection of stuff, from random bits to full character theme sets.

Edited by Neuro

 
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aphant



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16th July, 2010 at 19:34:35 -

A mini-game collection doesn't sound much different from everyone working on their own project and bundling them all into a single download. I don't see where there would be any collaborative effort involved in that. When I think of a community project, regardless of media, I think of participants working together towards a single, unified vision.

 

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16th July, 2010 at 19:47:50 -

I agree with Aphant, to an extent. While I do believe that we all should be able to add our own personal touches to the game in some way or another, I think the project would stand a greater chance of success if all of us worked together in a similar way that a professional development team would. We wouldn't need to be as restrictive as a real-life dev team, but we should certainly try to maintain a similar level of organization and communication between team members.

If one of us drops out due to unforeseen circumstances, we have to make sure that we can find a replacement so that the project doesn't fall flat on its face. On a similar note, all of the team members should have a universal method of communication - MSN Messenger or AIM, for example - to allow mass conversations about the project. The easier it is for all of us to communicate and share resources, the greater the chances of success.

Edited by an Administrator

 

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16th July, 2010 at 20:38:48 -

Strife makes a good point about having the means of communication; we could use Skype, MSN or AIM, and make it easier for everyone to communicate. I would also think that with so many people working together we'd has to establish standards for the different contributions. That is to say that people need to know what format to make graphics in, what size to make tiles, such and such like that, as well as what style to use (if we have one style). On the Sonic Retro forums, where they work on Sonic the Hedgehog 2 HD, they have leads for programming, music, characters, levels, and more, who have to enforce the style of each medium and approve graphics or music or things.

On the platformer vs minigame debate, I think it could be that we make a standalone platformer with story and goals and such, with minigames strewn throughout that may or may not be required to progress. If the standalone part bombs, then we can change it to navigation between minigames or make it Mario Party style something. That is, if we want to do minigames. I don't like the idea of prepping in advance for failure.

 
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Yami



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16th July, 2010 at 21:07:29 -

Well if it's a platformer how limited will the moveset be and would they have items? From there people should submit character art that everyone could put a vote to. After that a story could be made revolving around the character.

 
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16th July, 2010 at 22:45:56 -

I'd wait for the survey results to come in before deciding on anything.

 

Watermelon876



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16th July, 2010 at 23:45:32 -

Just filled it out. I voted for Platformer, RPG, Adventure and Strategy game (Other)

 
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16th July, 2010 at 23:53:59 -

Minigames are a possibility, but not in the sense that everyone makes one and we put them all together. I also agree with aphant. The idea is to have a high-quality project with people in place to make decisions, assign/manage tasks, and keep it on track. Everyone contributing in their own way is great. And in fact, separating it a bit in a smaller way like having those customizable characters or maybe multiple characters is definitely possible. But on the whole it will be one project.


Originally Posted by nim
I think the community project has a chance now. OMC is organised enough to pull it off. If it doesn't work this time...



I appreciate that! However I wasn't going into this expecting to be in control. Who knows, I might help direct in some manner (or even centrally, depending on how gung ho people aren't ), but I think it would be great if a dedicated and skilled non-admin member headed up the project. I'd be thrilled to administrate until the plan and team is in place, and then take a contributing role! Also looking at some things coming up that might keep me from directing a big project. Dunno yet though, so whatever is needed of me.

Got some good results so far! Top genres are RPG, Platformer, and Adventure. The lowest count in skills is 6 for online coding. An interesting thing came up in the comments section at the end of the survey. Someone thinks we should make a game with a funny storyline. Can't say I'm opposed.

 

  		
  		

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17th July, 2010 at 05:19:05 -

I think a good start would be to make something simple, but not small. Maybe a platformer with multiple levels. If you have a group, one person could do the engine one person could sketch level design, one person could link the level design to the story, and so on. You could even get people doing luxury things for the game, like coding a tutorial or deathmatch feature. If you're making a RPG, you could have someone test out whether the game is balanced. And certainly have one team member dedicated to just game design.

Just don't work on anything fancy, like 2.5D platformers or RPGs with full modding. Get it out as simple as possible.

I'm a little opposed to the mini-game idea because you don't actually create a "game". The result would be worth less than the sum of its parts, and you won't learn as much from the experience.

But it would be interesting if you had one group agreeing to make a collection of mini-games and another group working together towards a big project. Then we could see which is a better idea

 
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Yami



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17th July, 2010 at 11:30:24 -

What about a simple platform shooter using Phizix - Box2D for the engine?

 
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17th July, 2010 at 13:23:55 -

Noooo. Come on multiplayer, browser-embedded overhead shooter.

 
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17th July, 2010 at 15:40:35 -

Unless someone already has an online engine made that's being way too ambitious. Based on the past completition record of these type of group projects you want the odds in your favor. Any online multiplayer idea just isn't realistic. That's something you think about after you have a game worth making online.

 
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Matthew Wiese

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18th July, 2010 at 00:20:59 -

I voted RPg, Adventure, and Platformer (I don't think a fourth one).

I think the best idea would be to make this a browser game (specifically flash) so it can be easily playable by people who aren't in the "Indie Community" and could also be palyed by other operating system users (Mac?).

I'd work on anything if it was browser based, and anything even if it was. But don't expect me to be fully involved in this, I chose "Somewhat involved. I'll offer my skills when I can." in the participation section of the survey. I'll be involved when I have time, but since my schedule is tight this summer I can't devote my entire time.

 
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Muz



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18th July, 2010 at 15:24:08 -


Originally Posted by Yami
Unless someone already has an online engine made that's being way too ambitious. Based on the past completition record of these type of group projects you want the odds in your favor. Any online multiplayer idea just isn't realistic. That's something you think about after you have a game worth making online.



It depends, really. Anyone good at coding online stuff could do it without too much effort.. after all the only game submitted last time was an online one. But if you don't know how to do it yet, it's just too much work. Online games aren't simply "I'll code the engine THEN I'll do the multiplayer".

 
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Sephirenn

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18th July, 2010 at 18:14:01 -

I think the main point behind my mini-game suggestion was basically to prep us in case of failure. As Jon Lambert mentioned, it may not be the best strategy, but it's always a huge disappointment to TDC (and clickers in general) when a project doesn't get to completion, or even to a point where we could release it as abandon-ware.

We don't have to go with the mini-games, but I thought it would be the easiest way to convert a game that falls apart half-way through into some type of final release.

 
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18th July, 2010 at 18:17:17 -

I don't know that an online multiplayer game is the best option (that's up to the team), but Muz is right. It's not being way too ambitious, especially when there are people whose job is to code the online portion.

I've closed the survey. We got a good 60 entries. Here are the results:

Would you be interested in contributing to an official community project at The Daily Click?
Yes - 31
No - 2
Depends - 25
That means we probably have the amount of skill necessary.

We're trying to figure out what type of game the project should be. Please check the genres you would be interested in contributing toward.
Platformer - 41 (69.5%)
Adventure - 37 (62.7%)
RPG - 34 (57.5%)
Sidescrolling Shooter - 29 (49.2%)
Overhead Shooter - 20 (33.9%)
Shmup - 15 (25.4%)
Puzzle - 14 (23.7%)
Racing - 11 (18.6%)
Then 3 entries for Beatemup, a couple of mentions for rogue-like, and combinations of several genres.

Do you think the project should be online? E.g., an MMO of sorts, a racer, shooter, etc.
Yes - 11
No - 17
Maybe - 32

Should the game be flash, java, or vitalize or downloadable?
Either - 21
Embeddable - 10
Downloadable - 28

Please check the skills you would be willing to contribute with.
Graphics - Sprites - 25 (42.4%)
Graphics - Interface, UI, Logos, Larger art - 18 (30.5%)
Graphics - Conceptual, Design, and/or "promotional" art - 19 (32.2%)
Coding - General - 23 (39.0%)
Coding - Online - 9 (15.3%)
Sound - Music - 10 (16.9%)
Sound - Sound effects - 7 (11.9%)
Design - Ideas and/or prototyping - 40 (67.8%) (Surprised this wasn't 100%)
Coordination/Directing - 15 (25.4%)
Bug Testing - 36 (61.0%)
Also two writers, and a cutscene animator.

Most everyone seems confident they can stick to the project. 9 considered a central role (Which is odd, since 15 wanted to direct), 33 would like to be somewhat involved, 15 when they can, and 2 are banned from being in the project.

I was going to post a nice graph to prevent information overload, but they told me I had to pay for that, so phoo on them. So now that we have an idea of where the project might go. Looks like the most popular option is a downloadable platformer that's not online (just generalizing here), and all of the listed skills should be able to be filled.

Next step is selecting the leader(s) of the project and compiling ideas. Once the game concept gets to a certain point, however, the decisions will be up to the people in charge. Otherwise it will fall apart. That doesn't mean no sharing of ideas, it just means once it's final, it's final.

Since there are a lot of people interested, it may be best to take the discussion to a project page forum. Still waiting to see if we can use Jon Lambert's, so until then, feel free to discuss here!

I'd also like to know who all might be interested in leading the project. You can post here or PM me, but I think in the end the decision should be voted upon.

EDIT: Sephirenn, your suggestion was a good one. All input is valued. Right now it's just a matter of deciding what will and won't work.





Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

Disthron



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18th July, 2010 at 20:09:38 -

I guess people just don't like beat-em-ups any more.

Oh, well. Another gonra I've always thought was very under-represented was the Platformer/Adventure. Ax Battler for the Game Gear. For those of you who might not be familiar it's where you have a JRPG type overworld and towns but when you go into a dungeon or a random encounter it's a platformer. So it would have some Adventure elements like being able to talk to people, having a small inventory and such but wouldn't be a full blown RPG.

Also, having a good method of communication for the group in essential. I think we should have both a forum and a chat system. So we can talk in real time when we can but can also be able to leave messages when necessary. Some people live in completely different time zones after all.

 
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18th July, 2010 at 20:14:12 -

I'll recommend that we use Skype along with a forum. Its group chat feature is nice. Though I suppose MSN or AIM could work too. But everyone should be on the same one.

Everyone ought to have skype anyway.

 

  		
  		

Matthew Wiese

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18th July, 2010 at 20:46:01 -

Make that 3 writers as I totally did not notice the fill-in-you-own-job field.

 
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18th July, 2010 at 22:18:42 -

Could someone give me a link to Jon Lambert's project page?
EDIT: Never mind I read the rest of your forum post.
As per the question of downloadable vs. browser game:
If you want a game that is playable for a short while at a time, browser game makes sense. For a browser game, you should be able to do something rewarding in a short amount of time, as I know that I mainly play browser games when I have a few minutes to spare.
Otherwise, for longer sessions of play like an RPG it would be better to have a downloadable game so that you can have fullscreen and enhanced effects among other things.

Edited by Watermelon876

 
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18th July, 2010 at 22:32:12 -

I don't know if I'd want to lead a project, but I would want to be in a position to have some sway in the game mechanics. Whatever position that would be.

 
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18th July, 2010 at 23:21:17 -

Those would probably be the project leaders, designers (who may have to take on other roles as well), and coders.

By the way, this:


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
and 2 are banned from being in the project.



Was a joke. "Not involved at all. I want to look special by being in the credits." got 2 votes. Nobody's been barred from the project.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

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19th July, 2010 at 17:17:10 -

I'd vote for a randomly-generated adventure platformer but the poll's been closed.

If it had a level editor where stages were strung together by a simple text string, you could probably have 50 of us make a shitload of game levels for you.

My vote for a hero should be some sort of cop w/ a chips style motorcycle helmet, blue suit, pistol and billyclub. I'd like to see more games use some actual real-world heroes like cops and military servicemen.

 
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19th July, 2010 at 18:26:37 -

Just a thought - How will changes be integrated?

There are tools like CVS, or even distributed versions thereof like Hg/Git, but since MMF source code is binary based the merge feature can't be used. However, this does not render those tools completely useless. Hg, for one, supports binary diffs.

Not everyone has uncapped/fast internet, so yes, whatever method the team decides to use, it would be great if it doesn't involve downloading 1MB or more each time for a tiny update, or uploading that much each time one submits a patch of code/content.

 
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19th July, 2010 at 18:27:18 -

I'd like the game to be a Contra-esque run-and-gun if it's a platformer.

 
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19th July, 2010 at 19:44:22 -

I'd like to keep things as simple as possible and focus on really tight level design and control. Something like contra would be cool. Or castlevania. Or commander keen.

In my opinion, giving the game loads of fancy features might turn out well, but you're going to leave a lot of people behind if they don't understand what's going on under the hood.

But what do I know.

 
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19th July, 2010 at 19:49:55 -

Simple contra game with detailed level editor would work out well.

Also I'd really like to be on the game's core design team!

 
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19th July, 2010 at 20:55:19 -


Originally Posted by Smirnoff
I'd like to keep things as simple as possible and focus on really tight level design and control. Something like contra would be cool. Or castlevania. Or commander keen.

In my opinion, giving the game loads of fancy features might turn out well, but you're going to leave a lot of people behind if they don't understand what's going on under the hood.

But what do I know.



Yup I agree. Plus I like your What Happen's Next? series so i vote for you. I'd like to lead myself, but I'm having doubts so I figured it would be best to let someone else be in charge.

 
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19th July, 2010 at 20:57:34 -


Originally Posted by CodeCannon
Just a thought - How will changes be integrated?

There are tools like CVS, or even distributed versions thereof like Hg/Git, but since MMF source code is binary based the merge feature can't be used. However, this does not render those tools completely useless. Hg, for one, supports binary diffs.

Not everyone has uncapped/fast internet, so yes, whatever method the team decides to use, it would be great if it doesn't involve downloading 1MB or more each time for a tiny update, or uploading that much each time one submits a patch of code/content.



One possibility is that there can be a standard library to work with. A pre-made set of objects for the player, enemies, etc. Then, everyone just takes it from there and builds their own application, using the standardized references if need be. Make a change to your part of the project, upload it. Someone else can take all of the changes, all the individual apps, and then compile the resulting build for everyone to test.

Bugs will likely crop up a lot from this procedure, so it'll be nice to have someone to handle all bug reports and such.

 

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19th July, 2010 at 21:08:59 -

Not everyone's going to need the source at all times. If it's decided that coding needs to be broken down into different sections (e.g., platform movement, enemy AI, background elements) then they can be made separately. But really, there's going to have to be a lot of file sharing. Otherwise everything will be disjointed. If you have trouble with downloading a 500kb - 4MB file, you'll have to work as long as you can without uploading or consider a position that won't need to share the source a lot.

As for the actual file sharing method, there are always possibilities like a dropbox folder for the game. Or I could open up a space on my server and give FTP access. It should be easy to figure out.

Lembi2001 is the only one who has extended an offer to be the project leader as of now.

 

  		
  		

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19th July, 2010 at 23:58:29 -

Give it another day before making him leader. See if anyone else signs up. I know I might want to be leader but I don't get a lot of time on the internet. Plus nobody knows me. I think the leader should be someone well known.

 
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20th July, 2010 at 01:25:54 -

Being a project lead is tough and involves a lot of things I'm not terribly good at. I don't know if I could keep everyone organized and on track. However, I'll throw my hat in for project lead if there's so few volunteering.

Dropbox + some kind of messenger + google wave or something along the lines of those three would work well to keep everyone up to speed. Please continue to post alternatives.

 
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20th July, 2010 at 03:25:09 -

I would throw my hat into the ring for leader, but we all know how well that worked the last time...

 
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20th July, 2010 at 03:36:15 -

Think of it this way.

Last time was throwing sentient cake ingredients in a bowl and letting them duke it out, hoping for a bundt cake in the end.

This time is the leader of the project taking charge and layin' down de law when a decision hangs. He's got the egg beater, the oven, and the measuring cups.

I think you'd do a fine job, Jon. Jon job. Job Jon job.

 

  		
  		

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20th July, 2010 at 04:01:59 -

if it's going to be contra style i'd be interested in working on the core game mechanics/engine. I think it would be cool if it was Die Hard inspired, like you play as one of those bad ass cops who shoots first and asks questions later a John mcclaine style hero who single handedly takes on an entire army of terrorist scum that need to be brought to justice well... if you don't want to make that.. maybe i will.

 
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20th July, 2010 at 10:09:25 -

I'm actually looking forward to seeing how this will work out. OMC are you putting yourself forward for any of the teams?

 
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20th July, 2010 at 14:28:53 -

I'd like to participate, yes. We'll see where I'm needed and if I can fit the role.

 

  		
  		

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20th July, 2010 at 14:54:09 -

Just a quick thought, would setting up a wiki help at all? They are a little more agile than using a forum and might be a good place to put things.

However, I'm not sure of the free options out there.... but I do have webspace if we need to host one.

 
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20th July, 2010 at 15:07:34 -

Without going into it too much, I created an example:

http://gameo.wikispaces.com/ (what are the URL tags?)

The navigation is on the left. Right now there's a front page and a page with the survey results. We could create many more for each piece of the project, as a space for each team (graphics, code, etc) to collaborate. We could still use a forum for communication, I'm just suggestion that we put all our materials and comment/discussions in one location.

Also one thing to note, the example above is public, but can only be edited by the people I invite (to make it 100% private it costs money). This is just the first free wiki I found, so there may be one that is totally private for free.

 
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20th July, 2010 at 15:08:27 -

dropbox seems like the best option as it updates live, i was thinking about a wiki or even sourceforge however sourceforge is only for open source software so pooey to that one!!!!

 
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20th July, 2010 at 16:32:49 -

We could use a wiki to keep the designs in a central place, but for non-chat communication we might as well use TDC's project page forum.

So the next two things on the plate are selecting a project leader and selecting a general concept to work with. A few ideas have been mentioned, but before we start voting I think there should be more. Feel free to post your idea or agree with someone else's!

Here's a random one from me to keep the ball rolling: Let's make an online hide and seek slash capture the flag game where your goal is to shoot the "queen bee" of the opposing team. Queen bee hides, everyone goes hunting.

Or a middle ages castle defense game where you must allocate resources (e.g., soldiers, materials) to fortify walls while also fighting off the enemy.

Or even as simple as a SNES/Genesis era platformer with high design standards.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

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20th July, 2010 at 18:52:51 -

I vote for the third. It keeps things simple. Less hang ups with the engine and more people will understand how it works. I will admit that I would likely not understand the other two options so well and having things explained to me and any others would bog things down.

 
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20th July, 2010 at 19:09:54 -

I think a platformer would be a good idea however it would have to be something fantastic if there is a largish team working on it.

If we are looking to create a largish team something sprawling would be more suited to the project. I know that this sounds ambitious for a first team project however with the right level of commitment from all concerned it will be very achievable.

 
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20th July, 2010 at 19:16:39 -

We could probably get a lot of mileage out of the project forums. Discussion, bug reports, and design notes could all be posted there.

I think it would be wise to stick with the survey results. Platforming was the most popular genre. It's a pretty safe bet.

With platforming in mind, what kind of platformer would it be? Like Mario, Metroid, Megaman, Castlevania, Sonic, etc?

 

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20th July, 2010 at 19:47:04 -

Platformer is a good start, and maybe some RPG elements such as weapon leveling / stats.

I think the majority of us want a platformer, all we need to agree upon are the factors that will make the platformer more interesting?

Perhaps Cave Story esque sprites anyone?

 
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20th July, 2010 at 22:50:58 -

Cave Story esque is being done already

 
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20th July, 2010 at 23:12:21 -

There needs to be a unique gameplay mechanic. Not shoe-horned in either.

It's all been done to death--time control, jetpacks, grappling hooks... but I still think even if we picked one of those we could make something unique.

So is everyone okay with a platformer?

 

  		
  		

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21st July, 2010 at 00:38:36 -

You guys really need to start talking about this in a chat room or someplace, or setup a skype thing, talking specifics is really limited in a forum.

If only TDC had its own chat program... \\Rikus gazes into the stars\\ Oh to dream..



Edited by an Administrator

 
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21st July, 2010 at 00:59:05 -

I think what we need to do - aswell as start talking in a chat room - is to get all people that are interested in this project to list their specific area of interest. I don't think taht having people crossover between areas will help the project much. For example spriters just sprite, coders just code etc.. if we have people flitting from one specific area to another it will become extremely difficult to manage even for the most organised team leader.

We need to know who would like to do the following things (please only choose one of these areas):

Sprites - Level Tiles, Playable Character(s), NPC's, Backgrounds (we will need all GFX artists to draw the GFX in the same style itherwise things will look odd!! )
Level Design
Engine Coding
Story
Music/Sound Effects

If i have missed anything out feel free to add.

Sorry if i sound like i'm taking charge but i have seen far too many of these community projects die off and i don't want to see the same happen to this.

Edited by lembi2001

 
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21st July, 2010 at 01:25:00 -

In terms of skill and such, I'm no good at anything besides coding, so that is likely where I will stay. I can code both platforming engines and online things, as well as menus and such. I guess. The last engine I coded looked like this:



arrows to move, shift to jump, r to restart

That particular engine wouldn't be used for the project, as I'd prefer a) to code from scratch specifically for the project, and b) to not have that engine as open-source.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 01:30:04 -

Discussing specifics is good in a chat, but there's no guarantee everyone will be present since the team setup isn't even rough yet. We're still in the generals. Also, though I don't want to spam the forums, keeping this in a place where people will see it regularly and it won't get shunted aside is a good thing.

Take charge if you want, Lembi! But there will still probably be a vote.

Let's select a leader, so he can communicate with everyone interested. That will be easier than having everyone post their interested field in the thread.

Candidates so far (If I miss someone, speak up!):

Smirnoff
Jon Lambert
Lembi2001
Watermelon

Think you can do a better job? Put your name in the ring.


EDIT: Once we do get going, we do need a centralized place for condensed summaries of current tasks and the outline of the game. Aphant wanted to be head of bug and feature reporting/control. If he's willing, I bet that would be a fantastic post for him. Whether this is through that wiki or a simple project page description doesn't matter. I think it's important because the last attempt at a community project pushed me away from joining with all its myriad threads full of discussion and ideas (as this is already turning into). Having a centralized place will not only be a good reference for the team, but also people wanting to jump in.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

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21st July, 2010 at 01:36:36 -

Yeah, a unique idea is good, but it isn't neccessary. It is more important for the game to be polished and long than unique.
Moving on...
I think that if it's a contra clone then you need a melee attack that works like the sword in Sin&Punishment. With that weapon, you can dish out major damage at close range, but more importantly, you can reflect projectiles. That also makes it a bit different than most other games I've played on the internet. Graphics-wise, I'd prefer 16-bit or 32-bit graphics to Cave Story's 8-bit. Just no 3D models or Flash type graphics as they look ugly IMHO.
However, a Contra-type game doesn't really strike me as too much of a community project. Someone could just make it easily on their own. Which is why I suggested an RPG, a classic throwback to the 16-bit RPGs of old: Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy IV, Final Fantasy VI and... the other ones. Also it would be cool if the contra-game had RPG elements

Also, Rikus, if there isn't a chat, what's the chat link in the TDC toolbar?

 
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21st July, 2010 at 01:39:40 -

Your first sentence might cause a bit of an argument. Whether it's a unique mechanic or a unique art style or a unique interpretation of an old genre or whatever, it probably needs to be unique in some way to be good. That may just mean a good story or a good art direction and a lot of polish! But we don't want just polish.

The goal is fun and quality. Not one without the other.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

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21st July, 2010 at 02:08:51 -

Lembi, I have to disagree with your placing of the jobs, Level Design and Story all fit under the category of Game Design. Meaning that the designers would work out the gameplay mechanics, and how those mechanics are fueled by the story. And how the story influecnes level design and the setting, and with the level design and setting fueling gameplay.

It all works hand in hand, if they're separated it would be tough making both work.

And to conclude this I put my hand into the "Game Design" pool of work.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 02:23:36 -

If anything, there needs to be tiers of game designers. Lead, mechanics, levels, etc. Designers of mechanics need to be in constant contact with the leads of coding. But it doesn't really have to be that way.
I do think there needs to be leads for each aspect, though. I suppose the project lead could be any one of those things.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 02:38:33 -

The way I imagine it, you would have one project lead, who leads the entire thing. His or her responsibilities would consist mainly of organizing production, keeping up-to-date with each other leader in the different categories, briefing other leaders on the progress other categories have made, and keeping all project members up-to-date and organized on/in everything. The project leader would also have to moderate member activity and make sure things aren't being done to sabotage or otherwise impede project progress, such as quelling arguments.

Other than that, you'd probably have the rest of the thing split into categories, like Graphics, Music, Sound (music and sound could be together), Design, and Coding. With these 4 or 5 categories, each one would have a leader who would be selected based on talent, that is, if they can't code they shouldn't be Coding Leader, as well as on leadership abilities. As leader of any of these categories, you would lead discussion about those aspects of the project's development. To start you would have to establish what would be done and then who would do it. From there, you would guide members on how to do what they need to do, provide help, and make decisions on what needs to be done and when.

For example, if you are the Music Leader, you would have to be good at composing music. Then you might lead a discussion on what kind of musical style the game should employ, what instruments the music should use, and how the music will play (looping forever like Mario or changing over time like Spyro 1). Once these decisions are made, you would collect instruments and set up a guide for the musical pieces (tempo, pitches, what instruments can and can't be used, style, how to use the instruments, etc.) and then for each level and for menus and other necessary music, people could compose based on the guide and others as well as yourself would critique. Once a piece is deemed appropriate (that is, it is something you think will be locked in) it can move into deeper development, where others could work on it as well in improving it.

The Graphics leader is in charge of in-game, movie (if pre-rendered cutscenes or video are used,) and menu/UI graphics, deciding what styles to use for each, palette, size, things like that. Music is in charge of all music, and Sound is in charge of sound effects. Coding would be in charge of programming, including the game engine, menus, online, and the like (this person would have to be multi-talented). Design is in charge of making sure graphics, music, and sound work together, so he or she will have to be working a bit in all three of those fields. Essentially the hierarchy works like this:

Image

Maybe.

Edited by an Administrator

 
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21st July, 2010 at 03:01:01 -

From what I remember with the klik teams of old, you had one person working on the main game, who would show it to the team members, then the team members would offer help and suggestions aka graphics, music, sound effects or coding. The other team members would work on their main project and show it to everyone else, so you would end up helping others inside the team with their projects while you got help on your project from other members.

Thats how I remember it anyway, correct me if I am wrong. were are all the acoder folk i am sure they can drop a hint or 2

 
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21st July, 2010 at 03:07:47 -

This one's to be done a bit differently, methinks. We're trying a new way.

Though I would normally say this is overthinking the organization of the project, I think if it's done right a semi-rigid structure could be a good experiment, if nothing else.

Of course, it all goes down the pot if not everyone is dedicated. Which shouldn't be as hard since tasks will be smaller. E.g., all one person has to focus on is a particular sprite sheet. All another person has to focus on is sound effects. All this person has to do is design levels.

Nobody's voted or nominated on the project lead!

 

  		
  		

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21st July, 2010 at 03:11:10 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Nobody's voted or nominated on the project lead!

This is the TDC Community Project. That means we can do more with it on the main site and front page than we could with other projects. That is to say, since it encompasses the entire site (or so we'd hope) you could make a general poll for it.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 03:26:29 -

The only problem with me is I'm going to be visiting my Grandparents starting next week for 2 weeks, and so I'll only be able to get internet a few times, I just hope I wouldn't miss out on helping with the design aspect of the project.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 05:40:45 -

I am more interesting in being a design lead than a project lead. Though I'll do both if I can. Perhaps there is a better way to organize the voting process? Make people more aware?

 
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21st July, 2010 at 07:54:16 -


Originally Posted by Rikus
You guys really need to start talking about this in a chat room or someplace, or setup a skype thing, talking specifics is really limited in a forum.



Actually, a forum is useful for a lot of things. Anything that doesn't require urgent attention, like a bug report or feature request, can be posted to a forum without a problem; A forum is pretty good for these things because then feedback can be left on those, like if something isn't a bug, a bug can't be reproduced, not enough information was given, or if the bug was fixed. A forum is also useful for things that need to last, like a design document (which is referenced to by testers and QA to determine if something is a bug or not), or notes from the days meeting for those who couldn't attend (hurray for multiple timezones).

If anyone wants to give a chat room a try, then I propose that a channel be made on the freenode IRC network: http://freenode.net/
Wikipedia article on IRC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat

Edited by aphant

 

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21st July, 2010 at 08:33:39 -

You make a good point there Jon Lambert. Setting out our stall like that will provide some structure and stability for the project. Matthew, i never thought of it like that and think it is a very good idea. So we now have the following areas of expertise:

Game Design (Story and Level Design)
Sprites
Engine Coding (or is this included in game design now??)
Music/Sound Effects

 
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21st July, 2010 at 08:44:55 -

I'm interested in chipping in with this project, but I'm afraid I won't be able do do any actual coding as I don't have MMF (I had TGF years ago, but misplaced the CD). Would it be okay if I provided concept arts, sprites (in an importable format) and cutscenes?

 
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21st July, 2010 at 09:14:24 -

NE, that seems like it could be fine. Whenever this moves to the next stage(or even just now), you could post some of your drawings and animations.

My opinion on cutscenes, however, is that they should never interrupt the gameplay. I'd like anything story-driven to be played out in the gameplay. There could be a short intro cutscene and ending cutscene, but that's it.
But that's getting ahead of ourselves.

My view on the project itself:
I'd like to do something castlevania-esque. There have been a lot of votes for contra, so that's fine too. I like the idea of a map screen in between levels so the player has a sense of direction and progression, so that's something I'd like to see.
I was thinking into some kind of metroidvania style game because that lends itself more to the RPG elements, but that brings in a lot of potential designer troubles.
I am fine with the game being online so long as it's kept simple. General chat, lobby chat, co-op, and versus, perhaps. If these things can't be done, then don't bother. Anything more and I feel it would be outside the scope of this project.
There will always be opportunities in the future to think bigger. For now, let's think practical.


 
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21st July, 2010 at 14:16:08 -


Originally Posted by Jon Lambert
This is the TDC Community Project. That means we can do more with it on the main site and front page than we could with other projects. That is to say, since it encompasses the entire site (or so we'd hope) you could make a general poll for it.



Yes indeed. I'm just giving everyone interested a good chance to put themselves up for vote.

I'm wondering if nominating would work. Of course the nominee would have to agree, but it might spur people to be in that might not before.

After a quick look through the survey, I nominate... AndyUK, Strife, AssaultAndy, 3kliksphilip, Muz, Bibin, and Yami! Now if they visit the thread we'll see what they have to say.

EDIT: Alright, had a nice little chat with AssaultAndy. We're thinking perhaps that people will be more able to figure out how they want to participate if the idea is a little more solid. So continue to put in leader applications, but we'll hold off voting for now. Let's narrow down the game concept a bit more. We'll vote on a theme, style, depth of story, gameplay elements, etc (Through a survey, if necessary). Then once we're further down the road hopefully it will be a little more clear and concrete what we're setting out to make. It's hard to jump into a leading role when the goal is "let's make a game".

Also, since there are likely to be a lot of people interested in helping, Andy suggested that we have the development team (decided upon by the leader) and then everyone else appointed to the project votes on design issues. Leader still gets final word, but that way more people can participate without there being too many involved to make progress.

Thoughts?

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

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@Lembi I don't think the coding aspect with necessarily be part of design. Design is usually more of the ideas and aspects of the game without the actual work that brings it together.

You can think of design as a glue, that brings the Sounds, Graphics, and Coding together into a well-made uniform game.

 
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I have to say this whole idea sounds exciting and if i had enough time to contribute to this then i so would. Best of luck to you all, i can't wait to see what comes out of this - i think you'll do great judging by the input of the majority of posters on this thread!

 
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Well, of course both coding and game design have to be very tightly-knit. The design is limited by what can be done with the code. And sometimes the coders have insights into what would be good to add.

 

  		
  		

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21st July, 2010 at 15:36:54 -

I think the hierarchy is important ...

then ... summarizing ...

one leader to coordinate and direct the project

and 3 or 4 coders to carry out the project

and the rest of the people who is prepared to provide graphics or sounds that is needed

no?

 


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21st July, 2010 at 15:42:29 -

As far as what the game itself would be, we'd have to think about what style it would be in terms of how you make progress, the game's atmosphere, speed, and other design elements like that. Anyone here ever play Wario Land 2?

My idea for a game is a Wario Land 2 kind of system. Wario Land 2 was linear in terms of making progress, but it wasn't obviously linear. You would play through a level, going from entrance to exit, collecting coins along the way. You spent pretty much every non-boss level doing that, and in a boss level, the end door was replaced by a boss. The important parts of the game were that some levels had two ends, and that Wario was invincible. Wario couldn't die, so you could use that to your advantage to have enemies attack you and give you power-ups to get to more coins, which were then used to play mini-games. There were multiple endings because some branched levels lead to different final chapters.







So the way my game idea works is that you'd be perhaps a cop or some other person who usually stops evildoers. On one seemingly routine case, you barely miss a set of robbers, who have just finished robbing the city's largest bank. Defeated, you go back to the precinct or whatever to pore over the case for clues to their whereabouts. Over the next few days they rob more and more places and as you follow them you miss them each time. One time you go after them, they drop a map as they run away. You then use this map to find their hideout.

The game's pacing would be as quick or as slow as the player wanted, because they could either just go straight through the level or explore it and collect the money and treasure the group left behind. My idea is that there would be many places to explore in each level with treasure and money to find, with the harder ones, the farther out-of-reach areas, being guarded by more enemies or hard-to-traverse terrain. Many levels would have multiple paths to the exit. Some levels would branch into different exits, with the levels that come from those either leading back into the same story path as you would be if you hadn't branched, or leading to a different storyline altogether.

As far as the story, it would simply be you chasing them and them finding a hideout. Because they have dropped their map, they don't remember where their hideout is, so whether or not they find their actual hideout is dependent upon where you chase them to. In between levels, you'd see a title card that shows the map, where you were, and then where you are now, and when you met a new area on the map, it would color that part in. The longest cutscenes would be the very first one and the very last one, showing how the story begins and how it ends (with you busting them in some manner or another, or them escaping forever), with cutscenes in between areas simply showing the group trying to figure out where to go next and either going there purposely or to escape you as you grow near, with you coming in shortly and choosing the same path.

In terms of gameplay elements, you'd just have basic platforming like jumping and moving, and also possibly climbing, swimming, pushing things, and maybe beating things with a nightstick (a gun might be going too far; I don't think it'd add much to the platforming since it isn't really an action game)



 
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21st July, 2010 at 16:07:33 -

I really like that idea Jon!

Though you'd have trouble with creating enemies because if you're a cop and they broke into a museum, other cops wouldn't shoot at you thinking you're a thief. A more plausible idea could be you're a private investigator one museum or bank owner hired because he doesn't think the police could catch them. So when you enter place where they've been, the cops will attack you thinking you're a thief. The character wouldn't divulge who he actually is because he doesn't want to expose his client, or ruin his case by having his cover blown.

So would the map style be like Castlevania or Metroid, where it's open ended? Because that's what it sounded like you described.

I also think the character could be a bit more fluid in movement, maybe an ability to hold on to ledges, or hang on walls (but not climb up them)?

Overall that sounds like an excellent game, because it's technically linear but there are so many outcomes or choices you can make that it is really open ended. Unless a better idea is sputtered out I think Jon's idea would be a good choice.

Edited by Matthew Wiese

 
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21st July, 2010 at 16:15:29 -

I rather like Jon's idea as well.

 

  		
  		

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21st July, 2010 at 16:40:17 -

Genre-wise I'm leaning towards something that stays within a broad genre but is flexible - say, if it's a platformer, then instead of beaing a Contra-alike all the way through, there's maybe a level where your character finds a gun; then he could lose it again at the end of the level, at which point the gameplay emphasises puzzle-solving and stealth over straightforward shooting.

Combining that with the multiple-path idea could be interesting. Say, one path takes the game further and further into shoot-em-up territory, another emphasises puzzle-solving, and so on.

(Incidentally, if we're still casting ideas for plots and settings, I think a time-travel kind of thing could work well. Maybe the choices you make in a past level alter the present and future levels?)

 
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21st July, 2010 at 16:51:13 -

Throw as many ideas out as you want!

But I think having a "make choices and the future is changed" is too big of a task unless it's very limited. Even for professional developers sometimes. If it's just down to maybe 3 or 4 final outcomes, maybe it could be done.

 

  		
  		

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21st July, 2010 at 17:40:49 -

I like Jon's Idea too. If we are going to make it where you have to avoid detection, it would be good to include some stealth aspects too like a noise meter, hiding in shadows and other things. A noise meter wouldn't be that hard to implement i don't think, different floor surfaces echo sound differently thus running on a marble floor would give out more sound than running on a carpeted floor.

what do you think?

 
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Originally Posted by OldManClayton
But I think having a "make choices and the future is changed" is too big of a task unless it's very limited. Even for professional developers sometimes. If it's just down to maybe 3 or 4 final outcomes, maybe it could be done.



I was thinking something fairly broad - say, if there's a level set in the American civil war, then the path you take dictates whether the next level is the 20th century United States, or the 20th century Confederate States - same principle as Wario Land's multiple exits.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 18:23:24 -

Yeah that sound meter idea would work well. Probably should make the game entirely stealth, and you have to sneak around everyone without being seen.

Metroidvania + Never-ending stealth = cool?

 
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21st July, 2010 at 18:39:48 -

--whoops double post--

Edited by Matthew Wiese

 
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21st July, 2010 at 18:41:30 -

Aww, I'm touched that you'd consider me for a nomination, OMC.

Unfortunately, a stealth-based Metroidvania doesn't sound like my forte, so I doubt I would be able to wholeheartedly contribute, and I don't want to offer anything that isn't my absolute best. ^^; I have an artist's mentality when it comes to game development, in the sense that I'm fueled by inspiration - something I really hope to control someday if I plan on getting a job in the industry.

Actually, on that note, it might do me some good to force myself into a project that doesn't fit my personal tastes as a gamer. I gotta think about this some more.

 

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21st July, 2010 at 18:51:51 -

First of all, I vote Jon Lambert for project leader. Next, I didn't mean that having a unique game wasn't important, but I said that it wasn't as important as having a solid and polished game. I agree with the ability to climb ledges and hang onto walls, it would be cool, but somewhat difficult to implement. I think that you shouldn't tie down the player and force them to take one approach. Give players the option to use stealth to avoid a hard enemy or defeat them for extra rewards. I just threw out the Contra idea just to get the ideas going, so I'm not too attached to it.

Another idea which is more of a gameplay idea than overall design idea: What if you played as a four legged animal? It would give a different and unique feel to the game as a four-legged animal obviously handles different to a humanoid.

Jon, your idea seems like it's trying to be realistic. In that case I don't think you should add cutscenes between levels showing what the robbers are thinking as real cops wouldn't have that crutch and it is a lot of effort especially the VO. In addition, it should play out in real time, so you only have a limited amount of time to stop them. Maybe on the map that you find, you find five circled banks that the robbers are going to attack... and...

Well, actually the idea is good, but I don't think the supplied story really works with it. Maybe instead a Metroid-type story? The gang runs back to their hideout which you must explore to find all the artifacts that they stole from the museum. While you explore their hideout, you find upgrades like better guns, extra ammo, and other things. You also have to defeat the 4 gang bosses and turn them in. Feel free to add to that or discard the idea as you like.

 
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I like the bank robber and private investigator ideas. I also like the idea of having it like a Metroidvania game, where the player can find power-ups and stuff to augment their abilities and backtrack to explore more. Having stealth is also a neat idea, but it would be better if the player could choose if they wanted to be stealthy or go in guns blazing.

A nice part about having it be like a Metroidvania game is that some hard "blocks" can be put on player progression. Simply using jump height and player speed, access to further areas can be restricted. Have a platform too far away for the player to jump to, and they'll have to go find the related power-up to let them run faster or jump higher.

Also, having a variety of locations is key to a Metroidvania game. If the player is supposed to be chasing the gang to their hideout (or whatever), then that should take the player through the city (where the banks/museums/etc were robbed) and through the country side. Maybe through the city sewers, too. Having these different locales would mean that new elements can be introduced between levels and keep things fresh.

My only beef with the Metroidvania idea is why would the power-ups be there? If it's one of the things that the gang stole, then that would be evidence. If it's some surplus from the gang's exploits, like an extra rocket launcher that they don't need, then I would expect, as the player, that the gang would have rocket launchers to use against the player.

 

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21st July, 2010 at 20:33:48 -


Originally Posted by Watermelon876
Jon, your idea seems like it's trying to be realistic. In that case I don't think you should add cutscenes between levels showing what the robbers are thinking as real cops wouldn't have that crutch and it is a lot of effort especially the VO. In addition, it should play out in real time, so you only have a limited amount of time to stop them. Maybe on the map that you find, you find five circled banks that the robbers are going to attack... and...

Well, actually the idea is good, but I don't think the supplied story really works with it. Maybe instead a Metroid-type story? The gang runs back to their hideout which you must explore to find all the artifacts that they stole from the museum. While you explore their hideout, you find upgrades like better guns, extra ammo, and other things. You also have to defeat the 4 gang bosses and turn them in. Feel free to add to that or discard the idea as you like.

Concerning the story, I didn't really think of it in terms of how realistic it was. It doesn't really have to star a police officer, it could be anyone, just so long as they're going after the robbers. Maybe the head of the town welcoming committee who wants to give them a hearty welcome in their faces with his foot. Anyways, concerning the cutscenes, they don't tell you more than the officer would really know, as it is presumed that he is watching from afar, as he is in the progress of chasing them and can see them from a distance. Imagine the game is cut into chapters, as Wario Land 2 was. This will help to convey the idea of the branching as well as the cutscenes.

Image
Image from Super Mario Wiki article on Wario Land 2: http://www.mariowiki.com/Wario_Land_II

The first level is the one right under the word Map. That level starts with Wario sleeping (as you could see in one of the videos I posted.) If you wake up and destroy the clock, you go down the map and the first chapter is then based on you following the pirates out of the castle. If you choose not to wake up, the pirates throw you out of the castle and take over, causing you to move to the right on the map and enter Chapter 2, where you must storm your castle and throw the pirates out. On that path, the game ends with 6 levels. Waking up leads you to the next crossroads, where you choose between fighting the giant snake and going right, leading to your chasing them out of the castle and to their pirate ship, or take the regular exit and follow them into the castle cellar. This is an example of a branching path that does not lead to a game ending. Each part of the path following a boss (denoted by a skull) is another chapter and is preceded by a cutscene. This video gives a good idea of what those cutscenes would be like and how they would show the robbers:



So with regards to our map, it might show the city, a volcano, an ocean, a forest, an abandoned city, and a mountain range, and any one of these could be the end point of the game. It might look like this:

Image

It'd look better than that, and there would be levels that aren't in those places, like you might be going around the ocean and see it in the background on your way straight to the volcano or forest. Red dots are where branching levels would be, and yellow spots are where final levels would be. At branching spots, there could be bosses, where you fight one member of the robber gang that was left behind to stop you, and at a final level, you'd fight whatever members were left.

Each level would have a certain amount of coins and treasures, and at the end of the game you'd be given a rank based on how much you collected. Once you beat the game the first time you can go to any level you've been to before and look for more treasure or to find the other levels. Coins would always respawn, but treasures would be collected only once.

EDIT: To make the story more than just chasing the robbers across a bunch of random terrain, you could place some smaller cities and villages along the paths that they rob as they go along. In these levels, you'd have to get to the bank or whatever as quickly as you could for your chance to bust them. If you make it in time, you can fight one of the gang members, and defeating him or her would make the final boss that much easier.

At any end level, for example, the volcano, the robbers will have built a makeshift hideout inside the volcano chamber, and you'd sneak in trying to get to their stash. Before you got there, you'd find lower gang members to fight or avoid and smaller stashes, and once you got to the main room you'd fight all the remaining main gang members. Once you beat them, you could go into the main stash room, grab their loot, and escape before the volcano erupts and you head back to the city.


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21st July, 2010 at 21:18:11 -

Can't say I'm crazy about the cops and robbers idea, but I do like the branching paths. Having the game almost being dynamic in length according how you play it is very intriguing. I'm sold on that concept, but the story disinterests me a bit. But when it comes down to it, I care more about the gameplay, so if everyone is sold on it I won't make a fuss.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 21:25:19 -

Well after watching that video I think the game should have a train level.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 21:27:32 -

What about playing as the thief? I think, if its going to have stealth things and all that stuff, it would be better used if you're playing as the robber, since you have to dodge the alarms and such.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 22:22:12 -


Originally Posted by Smirnoff
Can't say I'm crazy about the cops and robbers idea, but I do like the branching paths. Having the game almost being dynamic in length according how you play it is very intriguing. I'm sold on that concept, but the story disinterests me a bit. But when it comes down to it, I care more about the gameplay, so if everyone is sold on it I won't make a fuss.

I don't really care whether it is about cops or robbers or whatever, but I do like my idea of having the player chasing a group of some sort. I can't really explain traveling to so many weird places otherwise.


Originally Posted by A. Lino
What about playing as the thief? I think, if its going to have stealth things and all that stuff, it would be better used if you're playing as the robber, since you have to dodge the alarms and such.

The stealth thing that everyone keeps talking about, and that I did mention, I'm not really so keen on. I just put it in there because other people seemed to like it, but stealth parts, while I enjoy them in games like Merry Gear Solid, aren't really what I'd like in this project. Of course, it isn't my project so I don't get to make those decisions. If we make it about the thief (if it does end up being about burglary) then wouldn't the gameplay have to be based around robbing places and such? That too is something I'm not really liking as the idea. I don't think that it is a bad idea, but I don't want to make it. It's still about what the people want though. Also, if it is about the burglary, it doesn't allow nearly as many different locales to go to. It'd be mostly cities and such.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 22:32:48 -

Now that I understand the branching paths idea a bit more, I agree that that is a good one. I still don't really like the story. What about setting it in the future where you're a secret agent infiltrating the world's largest suppplier of illegal ammunition. This explains all the random weaponry lying around. This also can accomadate stealth gameplay. It makes a bit more sense for the protagonist to be unarmed than a policeman. Halfway through, the player uncovers a dastardly plot to destroy the universe or create a world of perpetual conflict or something crazy and unrealistic and suddenly you meet an insane psychic and the plot goes the way of Metal Gear. What if the company supplied the weapons to a guerilla force that destroyed your hometown and you're out for revenge? These are all just some ideas I'm tossing out for the story.
Or what about that you have to recover the 7 elemental crystals that keep your planet from crashing into the sun or something although that's more RPG fare. That would take you through multiple locations. Or the weapons company has multiple outposts? Well again those are just ideas.

Edited by Watermelon876

 
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21st July, 2010 at 22:48:52 -

You made a good point about the locations Jon. Im not really into this stealthy cop stuff also, it just doesnt seem to fit into a platformer, but i might be wrong.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 22:55:29 -

As far as story goes, we can work on that later. For now, we have a number of gameplay elements suggested, so why don't we see which ones we like, which we don't, and which might need reworking?

- Branching paths: Some levels lead the game in different directions, where the story is told differently based on what path you take. A level might have two exits, one leading to the city sewers, and another leading to an abandoned part of town. Following one path could potentially lead to a final level, while another path might extend the game. Some paths might lead back to a "main path"

- Stealth: If the game has a story to support it, levels (however many is dependent upon the story) might require you to sneak around enemies or past other forms of security and surveillance

- Weapons: The player may need to find weapons to do something with

- Powerups: Some form of powerups could be in the game: if the game is linear and does not have traditional backtracking (you can't go to older areas) powerups would be temporary in levels and provide new gameplay mechanics, otherwise they would be used to allow access to new parts of older areas

- Progress: Should the game be linear or require backtracking? The game could either have you return to older areas with new abilities, or limit that ability to a level-select sort of mode after the game is completed the first time

- World: The game could be split into a number of levels or one large area split into smaller areas (imagine Mario-style level changes versus exploration on a planet in Metroid or of a single place like Showdown Town in Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts)

If I missed something, let me know and I'll add it to the list for reference. My opinions on these things, independent of story, is that I'd like the game to have branching paths so that a number of possible final levels can be made, and also to give variation both to every playthrough and to the number of level themes possible. Stealth is an idea I'm not on board with as much, because I don't want to make a game based on stealth, and anything less than that might make the stealth parts get gimped or seem out of place. Weapons are okay so long as the game doesn't become a "get bigger and better weapons and just blow things up", where you only need to get a strong enough weapon to kill enemies instantly and the game becomes easy. For powerups, you could have those to increase your range of mobility, allowing you to get to new places, but it depends on how progress in the game is handled. With progress, I'd like it to be like Wario Land 2 where you go through one story first and then once you've beaten a final level, you can use the map to go to any old level and follow different paths. The world would be split into different areas, which would be somewhat like worlds, and each area would have a number of levels with the same theme. However, multiple areas could have similar themes, for example, there could be a forest and a valley, or a city and then the city sewers or a city and an abandoned city.

Usually I can think of a story, but right now I can't come up with any good ones based on all that, so someone else can think of one.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 23:23:27 -

I was thinking something along the lines of a Castlevania map where you are free to roam anywhere, and depending where you go, you can fight through different parts of the game, and once you're finished with the final boss you can backtrack to the beginning and either play through the levels you missed as a fully equipped character (if the game has items and RPG elements to support that) or remove all your items and play through like a fresh new game.

And don't worry about not thinking up story ideas, we can't really do that because we haven't even settled on enough of the game yet. All we know for certain so far is that the game will be a platformer.

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21st July, 2010 at 23:25:54 -

You're right. Let's work on gameplay first. But start by making Jon a full leader. Or anyone else. Just decide the leader.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 23:38:35 -

I think we should all do a point by point evaluation to make things easy and clear for everyone interested. I'll follow Jon's example.

Branching paths: Absolutely yes.

Stealth: No, I don't like it. For stealth to work, you really have to have it be a "stealth" game. Not digging it

Weapons: You find them ala castlevania/ghouls n ghosts. If you keep the weapon until the end of the level, you get to keep it. Only one weapon at a time.

Powerups: I agree with Jon with the linear part. Either that, or you get to keep all the powerups you find and use them in your next playthrough.

Progress: No backtracking. You can replay levels with new abilities after completing the game.

World: Levels you can see from a world map. Think castlevania 3 but with the structure of branching paths Jon suggested.

 
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21st July, 2010 at 23:56:08 -

Ok, heres my votes then.

Branching paths: yes
Stealth: No.
Weapons: The way Smirnoff said. The game should be beatable without them, just like you can beat Mario without flowers.
Powerups: You should keep them until you die or forever, could be used to access other areas on levels already finished, and get secret stuff.
Progress: You could replay levels you already beat, unlocking new levels and paths.
World: No idea, i liked the Super Mario World map that would change when you found some secret stuff.
Leader: Jon.

 
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Dave C



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22nd July, 2010 at 00:17:43 -

how about ditch the private invesitgator thing.. maybe he's an ex-cop or something (or nothing to do with law enforcement) but he has been BLAMED for the robberies so he's got to track down the real theives and prove his innocence? or something like that.

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 00:22:02 -

Branching paths: Yup.
Stealth: Nope.
Weapons: Maybe have a small inventory (2 - 4 slots) that you can switch aquired weapons out of, but there beings more weapons that you can carry you can't have them all. Or a keep anyone one weapon till you die.
Powerups: For use clearing certain objectives, then be used in replays for secrets.
Progress: Branching paths that exist in a Castlevania style map.
World: Entire game is in one large world, with a graph style map to guide you around.
Leader: Jon most likely.

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 00:36:55 -

there could be more variety with some stealth kind of levels, like some levels could have cops who are after you but who you can't get seen by, but other levels could have baddies who you can kill so don't need to be as stealthy...

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 01:15:08 -

Hoping to hear word from the 60 people who filled out the survey...

My only comment for now is:

Stealth: Emphatic no vote if it's anything like the stealth in Ocarina of Time. It's almost as bad as being timed like in Majora's Mask!

 

  		
  		

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22nd July, 2010 at 02:27:14 -

stealth= euw
project lead: AssaultAndy!



 
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22nd July, 2010 at 03:46:04 -

I filled in the survey but I'm actually just waiting to see what everyone decides on before offering help or not.

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 03:50:21 -

If you pitch in ideas it'll be closer to something you'd want to work on.

 

  		
  		

aphant



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22nd July, 2010 at 04:02:50 -

Stealth isn't a bad idea. Think outside of the box here: You don't need to have a stealth game to have stealth. It doesn't require a super complicated engine. Stealth could be as simple as being able to avoid confrontation with an enemy. If they can't hit you, then you don't take damage. Avoiding enemies like this could be as simple as a concept of stealth. Just requires good level design and good AI.

 

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22nd July, 2010 at 04:39:42 -

the worst thing about most click games is someone finally makes an 'engine' and then makes a whole bunch of levels with hardly any variety. why not even have just 1 level where you have to sneak your way past guards? gameplay variety is key! so i don't think you should right off the stealth idea entirely... every level should have a unique game mechanic.. theres no reason another level couldn't be on the back of truck where you have to shoot at enemies chasing you etc. (we don't have to make every level use the main platofrm engine) and then another level where a bomb is going to go off so you have to race the clock... variety!

I know it's only early days and too soon to be talking specific levels etc. i'd just hate this to be another generic click platformer where you collect crystals and jump on uninspired enemies through 4 themed worlds (forrest, desert, snow, factory) each with 3 levels!! or something yawn inspiring like that.... we have a lot of heads here.. that should mean lots of creative ideas.

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 04:46:03 -

We're not really focusing on story right now. Right now, people are commenting on the list of proposed game features, and if they want to, they can add to it as well. I'd suggest that you take the list and give your comments on each of the features, and if you have any more to suggest, add them to the list and give a brief explanation of how you imagine they'd work. The current list being discussed is:

Branching paths
Stealth
Weapons
Powerups
Progress
World

In addition, you could vote for or nominate a project leader. If you wanted to, you could nominate yourself.

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 04:53:39 -

Also don't forget that you aren't only allowed to comment on or add to current ideas. If you have an unrelated but genius idea, share it!

 

  		
  		

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22nd July, 2010 at 05:04:25 -

Also, gameplay variety is key, but having a game where every level is played differently than the last just sounds like a horrible mish-mash of concepts that detaches the player from the game. It'd be sorta jarring to suddenly change from one mechanic to the next, and you would never get the chance to become comfortable with a mechanic if you keep switching from one to the next. And having just one level that is different from all the rest would be a bit odd.

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aphant



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22nd July, 2010 at 05:23:06 -

I think we can address branching paths and progression at the same time: Open-ended world like a Metroidvania game. Access to next areas are gated by physical restrictions like jump height, movement speed, or some situational ability (like a short-range teleport).

When I think of gameplay variety, I think of Donkey Kong Country. Every level (except for the underwater levels) share the same fundamental platforming engine. The arrangement of baddies and level features adds a new twist to the levels, like there might be a giant stone wheel chasing you down throughout the level, or you might be jumping onto floating barrels that periodically start on fire. The fundamental gameplay remains the same, but the player has to overcome these new or cleverly reused mechanics in order to finish the game.

Even Metroidvania games will do that, so that the player is tasked with having to use their newest ability in the newest area in order to get by, while also relying on the fundamental gameplay. Metroidvania games also tend to have enemies that cannot be defeated until the player has a new weapon or ability that penetrates their defenses, which means that the player cannot progress down that path unless they either have that weapon/ability or they're very ballsy.

So that's why I think that's a great way to address progression and branching paths. Better players will be able to get by with creative usage of what they have, while inexperienced players may want to get the "required" abilities to progress. There could also be pathways that are only open while some condition is true, like the player has cleared room #27 but they haven't entered room #28, so a shortcut is available in room #20 that leads to room #300, or something. Like the warp pipes in Super Mario Bros., or the warp whistle in Super Mario Bros. 3.

 

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22nd July, 2010 at 07:06:36 -

Branching paths: Yes
Stealth: Maybe your the robber, and the stealth aspect would be more along the lines of Metroid Fusion. The different areas could easily be seen as you trying to find phat loot.
Weapons: A weapon you always have equipped (gun, knife, etc) and maybe one sub-weapon type power you can obtain.
Powerups: So long as they aren't mainly passive get-this-so-you-can-go-more-places powers I'm fine with it.
Progress: No comment.
World: Super Mario World type world. But let them branch off by finding different points to end the level. Really random example. Your in a forest. Do you a) Climb that huge tree to go to skyworld or b) jump into a river taking you into a cavern and underground lake?


 
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22nd July, 2010 at 07:28:21 -

Oh yeah, leader: Jon

 
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aphant



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22nd July, 2010 at 07:48:36 -

As far as leader voting goes, I vote for whoever will keep everyone on task and see this through to the end.

Honestly, I'm less interested in who's going to run the project, and more interested with actually getting started. I think we're at a point where we've have enough ideas to work with, and all we need is for someone to step up and say, "this is how the game is going to be designed, let's get to work." I'd also expect them to draft up some sort of design document that clearly outlines most (ideally, every) features of the game, from start to finish.

 

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22nd July, 2010 at 08:21:09 -

I'm kind of like AndyUK. Depending on where the project goes will determine if I decide to help. As far as the map branching idea, I think some type of exploration mechanics would work best with that type of setup. You explore, find new items, and from there you're able to go to other places. It's simple and the item upgrades will keep the player interested.

Especially when you start thinking about how the game will look. If we're able to make the world seem like one big universe instead of a bunch of random levels. The player then becomes engulfed in the atmosphere and the idea that this place is real. Even if it's stylistic. By real I mean everything looks like it belongs.

I'd like to make a vote that the game take place in one environment that allows us to make every area unique and original while also giving the game a certain look. So just say Y/N to one environment and if you say yes then possibly suggest a place that you think would be interesting to explore.

 
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NE



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22nd July, 2010 at 08:24:00 -

Branching paths: Yes, I'm liking this idea.

Stealth: Not really bothered one way or the other.

Weapons: I'm still leaning towards the idea of having weapons dictated b the storyline - you're given specific weapons on specific levels

Powerups: Don't mind.

Progress: I'll go with no backtracking.

World: Might be interesting to use a Metroid-style exploration format as some ind of overworld?

 
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Muz



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22nd July, 2010 at 08:24:56 -

Wow, I got nominated, lol. I'd probably not accept if it's a platformer. Platformers aren't really my thing, would be better off in some other guy's hands. I'd volunteer for role of manager, as in the grunt who sorts out stuff And I vote Jon for leader.

 
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HitmanN

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22nd July, 2010 at 13:03:24 -

I keep forgetting to keep an eye on this thing. Anyways, some opinions:

Branching paths: This, or preferably more freedom, as in fully metroidvania.

Stealth: Not necessarily stealth, but survival, like aphant mentioned. You could come across an area in the game, where the enemies are undefeatable with your current weapons, so you can only dodge 'em. Then later on you'll find a weapon that can hurt these enemies, so when you're backtracking/free-roaming, you can pass the same area by killing those annoying enemies.

Weapons: Choices, please. It's not interesting to play a level with the same weapon every playthrough. -_- I'd even go for simplified randomized loot diablo-style myself, but if adding couple of randomized variables scare people, then at least a few different fixed weapon choices. Maybe hidden weapons here and there, so you can discover something new every playthrough, unless you're the type to go and hit every wall, floor and ceiling in the game right on your first playthrough. xP

Powerups: Works for me.

Progress: Preferably free-roaming, but at least backtracking, so you can go back and look for secrets 'n stuff. Maybe a few hidden extra hearts to your health meter to improve your odds with the final boss.

World: I'm not too specific on this one. Could be Super Mario World type, Castlevania type... I guess it depends on how epic the story should be. If you're saving the world, you might as well have a world map to show you travel long distances. If you're just beating the neighborhood bully, then just walk to the edge of the screen and you're across the street in another area.

One idea I had in mind for the branching stuff, if free-roaming is out of question, inspired by the Wario Land stuff Jon posted, was time travel. Cliché, yes, but what if you had a chance to alter the course of history (and further levels) as you jump in time. Kill a scientist in present day level, and in a future level you won't be fighting against tough robots, but second-rate mercenaries. You'll miss on the hi-tech items though, which you would've gotten if you had let the scientist live. You could come across a jackpot lottery ticket on ground, which you can pick up or leave as is. If you pick it up, then in future level you'll have to pass some nasty slums. Don't pick it up, and the same area could be idyllic housing (because whoever else picked up the lottery ticket would've used the money to improve the housing). Kill the inventor of telephone in the past and in present day the ads you see around town promote better ways to send letters and email, instead of phones and providers, etc. The changes could range from visual to progression-altering.

Anyways, just a random idea I happened to think of.

As for project lead, Jon seems good, but I'm sure most of the others would do too.

 
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NE



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22nd July, 2010 at 13:27:32 -

I know it's a tad early for concept art, but I knocked out a possible protagonist design (going with the police theme) just to keep the old creative juices flowing:

http://i25.tinypic.com/2z5j8l4.jpg

 
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Assault Andy

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22nd July, 2010 at 13:36:08 -

Thanks for the nomination and votes guys, but I really think Jon's idea is great so I also vote Jon for leader because he will have the vision to carry it through. I would be suitable in a position such as a manager for the programming but my time is limited so I wouldn't be able to write the entire engine, for example.

I think the game should be branchable and should be made up a of a series of levels with distinct start and end points, as mentioned with the Wario games. This would involve a world-map-like level selector with branched paths that the player can choose between (like this: http://www.mariowiki.com/images/7/70/DonkeyKong-Stage1%28BigCity%29.png but with branching). Discrete levels will allow many people to work on different levels at once, especially if we develop a level editor. An open-world game would be more difficult for lots of people to work on at once, even if we use a custom 'segment' system rather than one big frame.

Since the levels would be selectable, backtracking would be allowed so that the player can try to improve their score/time on a level that they have already played.

I don't think stealth is a good idea. It is a fun element at times, but I think it will shift the game's focus too much and it won't be as straight forward as a run and jump platformer.

As for weapons/powerups - anything is fine. It's probably something that can be discussed later on.

I know it's too early for storyline, but for Jon's original idea, I also agree with Matthew Wiese on "a more plausible idea could be you're a private investigator one museum or bank owner hired".

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 16:09:38 -

I don't want to be project leader.

 
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CodeCannon

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22nd July, 2010 at 16:42:15 -

Is this project open source?
Anyone got a name for it yet?
Where or how will it be hosted?

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 16:46:48 -

The open source question will probably be voted upon (perhaps once the project is closer to complete and a lot of work has been invested).

Name comes when we have more concrete story and characters. Right now it's just "The Community Project." TCP!

When it's finished or while it's in development? We can host the final game on TDC's server. While in development we can use a dropbox or a portion of my server or a google server or whatever.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

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22nd July, 2010 at 17:33:16 -


Originally Posted by HitmanN

One idea I had in mind for the branching stuff, if free-roaming is out of question, inspired by the Wario Land stuff Jon posted, was time travel. Cliché, yes, but what if you had a chance to alter the course of history (and further levels) as you jump in time. Kill a scientist in present day level, and in a future level you won't be fighting against tough robots, but second-rate mercenaries. You'll miss on the hi-tech items though, which you would've gotten if you had let the scientist live. You could come across a jackpot lottery ticket on ground, which you can pick up or leave as is. If you pick it up, then in future level you'll have to pass some nasty slums. Don't pick it up, and the same area could be idyllic housing (because whoever else picked up the lottery ticket would've used the money to improve the housing). Kill the inventor of telephone in the past and in present day the ads you see around town promote better ways to send letters and email, instead of phones and providers, etc. The changes could range from visual to progression-altering.


I think time travel and altering the future would be a great idea. It would probably be a lot of work though.

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 17:38:24 -

Attempting something of that magnitude, at least for now, seems unwise. Unless it's like... ONE thing, it would be too much work and would fall apart early on.

 

  		
  		

NE



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22nd July, 2010 at 17:52:20 -

That said, even if you leave out the altering-history aspect, a time travel theme could make for a good variety of settings: levels in ancient Rome, the middle ages, a colonised Mars and so forth. Something for every graphic artist?

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 19:39:05 -

All righty folks, it appears that we have a number of potential ways to approach this. I think I see about 3 basic ways to handle the game, so I'll post up what I think those are and people can look at them a bit. I'd like everyone to make a choice between the three if they can, so that we don't end up in discussion limbo and never getting to the next step. Once we have this basic game design down, we'll make a story and then get people to work on coding the necessary elements for the engine while others decide on styles for graphics, sound, and music.

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1G4NRF2FeQM1q3_RzTyjCQldfj1v5eo-iOH4L_eKEatI

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 19:42:03 -

I'm working on a platform engine to simulate a four-legged animal moving. This game has nothing to do with your current ideas, but I'm not sure that you understood where I was going with the four legged animal idea. I was thinking that you could transform into multiple (made-up) animals to access their unique powers. I was thinking that the gameplay and story could be similar to a zelda platformer, but different.

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 19:46:41 -


Originally Posted by Watermelon876
I'm working on a platform engine to simulate a four-legged animal moving. This game has nothing to do with your current ideas, but I'm not sure that you understood where I was going with the four legged animal idea. I was thinking that you could transform into multiple (made-up) animals to access their unique powers. I was thinking that the gameplay and story could be similar to a zelda platformer, but different.

I don't know that anyone discounted your idea. We're just working on these other gameplay elements. You could have discussed it a bit more, and explicitly asked what people thought of it. It sorta looked like an afterthought in that post. If you want, you can finish your engine and post it as a proof of concept. Maybe people will like it and want to use it for this project.

Also, don't forget to read this: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1G4NRF2FeQM1q3_RzTyjCQldfj1v5eo-iOH4L_eKEatI

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 20:25:17 -

your link didn't work for me.

 
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22nd July, 2010 at 20:37:48 -

Alternative: http://gumman.desertstorms.net/index.html

I'll just have to remember to reupload it every time I edit it on Google.

EDIT: Updated with potential character actions and input ideas.

Edited by an Administrator

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 00:18:46 -

I'd go with Mode #3 for game progression, and having weapons and powerups be related to the thrird choice for game progression.

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 00:19:27 -

I am against a metroidvania type of progression. I'd much rather have a world map and levels chosen by either actions taken with a level or choice of exit. I think both would work well. I'd always like to see the world map between levels but not show the exact path the play is taking until after they beat the game once. 'Backtracking' would occur only in the sense that the player could revisit old areas with new abilities, but this would never be required.

"Stealth is limited to having to avoid certain types of enemies or areas" I agree.

I think a variety of weapons would be good and they could be found throughout the levels. Perhaps there could be shops in the world map as well. You keep them until you die. Perhaps the weapons you've beaten levels with could be stored for later use.

Powerups could partially be optional with some required to beat certain paths. You always keep the powerups you find unless we have two different kinds such as permanent and temporary.

I like collectables, but make them more fun and useful than to add to an arbitrary score.

 
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Matthew Wiese

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23rd July, 2010 at 02:49:58 -

Maybe a small amount of weapons (i.e. pistol, machine gun, rocket launcher, rifle) but you can find parts as you progress and attach them such as longer barrels or larger magazines, though these modifications don't have to be shown on the actual sprite.

Edited by Matthew Wiese

 
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aphant



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23rd July, 2010 at 10:09:59 -

Jon, those progression diagrams really helped. I'm more in favor of #1, but I think that's mostly because it looks more like a Metroidvania map than #3 does.

One of the single biggest obstacles we might have is level design. I like the concept of having levels branch out, but I think that without a lot of levels it won't be as rewarding as we hope. In the diagram for #1, there is a short, 7 block route, an 11 block route, two 14 block routes, and two 18 block routes, all coming to a total of 27 level blocks! It looks like it would work, but think about it again: 27 levels.

Meanwhile, if you were to look at a Metroidvania map, you'll see something like this:
Image

That's 124 grid tiles, but only 34 rooms. 34 rooms sounds like it's more than 27 (mathematically, it is!), but if we were to further break that map down into regions...
Image

We've got 5 different regions. What's special about regions in a Metroidvania gamesis that they share the same basic level design: The dark green area at the bottom for example, focuses primarily on basic running and jumping; The fuschia area to the right puts a heavier focus on jumping, attacking, and falling; The pink area is focused more on having a lot of room to jump upwards and larger enemies, having a focus on defense manuevering; The brown area focuses more on an onslaught of enemies and keeping up a solid offense; The violet area to the top combines everything that the player has come across for the home stretch. Basically, a Metroidvania game can get away with repeated level design within the same region, because it fits the overall theme; A region in a Metroidvania game is essentially a level with multiple rooms!

Let's look at a basic route that the player could take. Green lines indicate an easier path, yellow is slightly more difficult, and red is for the end game:
Image

Where there are dots and a number, the player has to do something. Maybe it's a boss fight, maybe it's just a cutscene. The idea is to guide the player around the entirety of the map, testing their skills as they go in an increasingly difficult manner. But the route doesn't have to be set in stone! Maybe the player is a bit crafty, they know where they're going, and they've got the means to do what should normally be impossible...

Image

They might just get to PoI #2 and then skip to #5, and because of the timing of it, they're able to fight the last boss before they would have had a chance to relocate or whatever.



So, yeah. Branching paths is a good idea. However, linear levels with branching paths isn't a good idea, as it may result in a lot of uninspired level design and seemingly meaningless choices. A Metroidvania-style game can addresses the level design by sticking to a basic theme per region, and the design can be reiterated on every few rooms, adding a new twist or re-arranging the basic elements. Furthermore, a Metroidvania game can support branching paths if the player is determined to do some sequence breaking, and if the event flow is designed with that in mind.

 

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23rd July, 2010 at 13:15:44 -

Where did the term metroidvania come from?
Was there ever a game where you whipped undead squids in a space castle?

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 13:41:56 -

It's a term that describes gameplay mechanics, not content per se. Whips, squids, space and castles have hardly anything to do with the term.

I would imagine it originated from a need to have a term that describes a game that is akin to both metroid and castlevania. Better than saying a metroid-castlevania-like game.

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 14:20:01 -

I really like that design write-up aphant, pretty much why I wanted a Metroidvania game in the first place, an open world is much easier to have rather interesting branching levels designed through.

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 15:20:04 -

Thanks to AndyUK for asking that question, that way I didn't have to.

Image

Looking at the Wario Land 2 map again. each polygon divides all the separate levels on the map into the different chapters. The orange is "Save Wario Castle!" where you must storm Wario's castle to regain control. Light brown is "One noisy morning" where Wario must undo all the damage to his castle caused by the pirates. This goes on like this with a cellar chapter, pirate ship chapter, underwater chapter, haunted mansion chapter, forest chapter, city chapter, and enemy castle chapter. I like to think that, should all the levels have been put together (not based entirely on the map but the actual content of the levels) it would have worked similarly to your Metroidvania style. Also, I'm not sure why everyone loves the metroidvania style so much. I'd tell you to at least play Wario Land 2 through (since I like that game) but unless you already have it, you aren't likely to find it outside of illegal rom methods. With that having been said...

Originally Posted by aphant
However, linear levels with branching paths isn't a good idea, as it may result in a lot of uninspired level design and seemingly meaningless choices.

I feel like this is a horrible lie. Level design in Wario Land 2 (which would have been linear levels with branching paths) was excellent as it allowed you to explore as little or as much as you wanted to, and different parts of each level could play to different mechanics or styles without feeling awkward. Those who explored could find more coins to play the minigames necessary to get treasure and picture panel pieces (ultimately unlocking the time attack level and flagman game & watch game.) The choices didn't seem meaningless to me at least, since I was directing the story myself, getting a different playthrough experience based on the paths I, and I would eventually have to go on every path to meet every level and collect all the treasures and panel pieces. What inspires me to visit every room in a Metroidvania game?

The main reason I object to a Metroidvania-style game is because it always bothered me that I would have to spend so long in the same style of area with the same mechanics over and over without variation, and the fact that the areas are so large is almost an excuse to make less varieties of areas, and I'm not talking purely aesthetically. Then I would later have to come back to the same areas and do more, as opposed to being done with the area as soon as I get out. I've been playing Wario Land 2 levels over again lately simply because I want to, even though I've done everything already, because I think that they are that fun and nice to visit, for atmosphere and such. Spyro the Dragon makes me feel the same way in terms of playing a game with "nothing new to offer."

Of course, I suppose I'll have to yield to whatever the people choose.

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23rd July, 2010 at 16:13:58 -

I do believe you're quite set on your Wario Land 2 style of play Jon, and since you're referencing Wario Land 2 so much I do believe you're really trying to base the entire community project off that one game.

We should really choose what we all can agree upon, and if that means not having Metroidvania or Wario Land 2 level progression, then so be it.

 
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I'd like to nominate OMC for project leader, if he hasn't been already...

I think both OMC and Jon would be excellent leaders I definitely put my money on one of those two.

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 16:25:47 -


Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
I do believe you're quite set on your Wario Land 2 style of play Jon, and since you're referencing Wario Land 2 so much I do believe you're really trying to base the entire community project off that one game.

We should really choose what we all can agree upon, and if that means not having Metroidvania or Wario Land 2 level progression, then so be it.

Hence my comment at the end of each of my posts amounting to "We'll have to do whatever the people want." If you all get to defend your Metroidvania-style, then I should get to defend my Wario Land 2-style. If I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, or if I feel like I need to clarify more, or if I feel like points are being made in defense of Metroidvania that are applicable to Wario Land 2 as well, then I will say so. So... Maybe more people could make a choice.

EDIT: Also, Wario Land 2 is really the only example of that style that I can think of.

Here is a thread to vote on which style you want: http://www.create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=275561

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23rd July, 2010 at 17:48:08 -


Originally Posted by Jon Lambert

Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
I do believe you're quite set on your Wario Land 2 style of play Jon, and since you're referencing Wario Land 2 so much I do believe you're really trying to base the entire community project off that one game.

We should really choose what we all can agree upon, and if that means not having Metroidvania or Wario Land 2 level progression, then so be it.

Hence my comment at the end of each of my posts amounting to "We'll have to do whatever the people want." If you all get to defend your Metroidvania-style, then I should get to defend my Wario Land 2-style. If I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying, or if I feel like I need to clarify more, or if I feel like points are being made in defense of Metroidvania that are applicable to Wario Land 2 as well, then I will say so. So... Maybe more people could make a choice.

EDIT: Also, Wario Land 2 is really the only example of that style that I can think of.

Here is a thread to vote on which style you want: http://www.create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=275561


Yes I did see where you stated "We'll have to do whatever the people want." I also understand your point that things for the Metroidvania game are applicable to WL2. I just thought you should think about other possibilities (not just Metroidvania or WL2).

Edited by Matthew Wiese

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 18:03:46 -

I vote Wario 2's semi-linear but branching idea. I was never very fond of Metroidvania style. It seems too open. (I was not a fan of Super Metroid and Wake, for example.) Games with that seem to wander too much.

 

  		
  		

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Originally Posted by Jon LambertI feel like this is a horrible lie. Level design in Wario Land 2 (which would have been linear levels with branching paths) was excellent as it allowed you to explore as little or as much as you wanted to, and different parts of each level could play to different mechanics or styles without feeling awkward. Those who explored could find more coins to play the minigames necessary to get treasure and picture panel pieces (ultimately unlocking the time attack level and flagman game & watch game.) The choices didn't seem meaningless to me at least, since I was directing the story myself, getting a different playthrough experience based on the paths I, and I would eventually have to go on every path to meet every level and collect all the treasures and panel pieces. What inspires me to visit every room in a Metroidvania game?



I'm thinking on a small-scale. On that treasure map, there are about 50 levels. I don't doubt the level design for all of them. I do have doubts that this group will be able to have half as many levels with varied design, though. That's why I brought up a Metroidvania style of progression again. Even though it would be a larger amount of game area to cover, it should be (in theory, anyways) easier to make because of each region's basic design principles; instead of having 25 levels, it could be 9 levels broken down into rooms.

You're onto something by breaking that treasure map down into chapters. There are 9 chapters in your list, and I assume they all have their own aesthetic theme. It sounds like each level in a single chapter has a single basic premise, too. There might have been a chapter that had mechanical contraptions that would crush, push, or impale Wario; In a Metroidvania, one region might have mechanical contraptions that would crush, push, or impale the player. It's a similar concept.



Now, the term Metroidvania is a combination of two game names: Super Metroid, and Castlevania.

Metroid, quite possibly the first platforming game to feature scrolling to the left. The basic premise of Metroid was that there was this huge map, broken down into five regions: Brinstar, Kraid's Lair, Norfair, Ridley's Lair, and Tourian. Brinstar and Norfair were roughly divided into two sub-sections, with one being a different color and generally being more challenging. To finish the game, the player would have to visit all of these areas, often retreading old ground. Overall, every area had the same general traps, relying heavily on enemy placement and level design. There were a lot of pickups (usually more missiles) for the player to find, with them being placed roughly 1.5 screens apart. Furthermore, to get to most of these pickups, the player would have to hunt high and low to find weak sections of wall, floor, and ceiling to get to them. Metroid was also one of (if not) the first games where the player's powerups were permanent, as opposed to being temporary (like a Star or Fire Flower in Super Mario Bros).

Super Metroid took the original concept from Metroid and expanded on it. There were more ways to travel, more weapons, more enemies, and more regions. Super Metroid took the sub-section concept even further, providing new aesthetics and different challenges. There were a total of 6 regions, from the open outdoors of Crateria to the molten depths of Norfair, and five regions were broken down into no less than 3 sub-sections (the last region, Wrecked Ship, was small and not able to provide much in the way of sections). Overall, there were 19 different sub-sections.

It's important to note that even in the original Metroid, there isn't too much backtracking to do. Most of Brinstar and Norfair will only need to be explored once, and there are some rooms that you can skip entirely (unless you want a 100% clear). Once you go down to either Kraid's or Ridley's Lairs, you'll have no need to ever return to them once you kill the boss (again, unless you want a 100% clear and missed something). The same goes for Tourian, except that once you get into Tourian you can't get out, and it's very linear. Super Metroid is the same way, where once you're done with a sub-section, you never have to return (again, except for 100% clear). For the most part, backtracking means having to retread old ground to collect missed items; you'll never have go down into Lower Norfair to get some upgrade, then back to Brinstar Overgrowth and use that upgrade to get yet another upgrade, and then take that upgrade deeper into Lower Norfair to get into Ridley's Lair, for example. You'll only have to take new stuff to access new parts of old areas to collect optional equipment, like more missiles; It's possible to have 255 missiles (picked up 5 at a time), but you only need 15 to finish the game. By the way, a 100% clear means collecting every item in the game. There are only 35 or so items to find in Metroid, but 100 to find in Super Metroid!

That covers the Metroid part of Metroidvania. Onto the vania part, Castlevania.

The first four Castlevania games were linear, and had branching paths. The games had about 8 levels each, and those were broken down into rooms like before, with each room offering a different challenge. Once you finished a level, you couldn't go back. This is not the Castlevania we're talking about.

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night took the Super Metroid route and had a huge, expansive castle. There were some 10 regions in the game, and then depending on how the player dealt with the "last" boss, they could gain access to an upside-down version of the castle, resulting in 20 regions. Each region had a unifying theme to its challenges, but there would be hundreds strings of rooms that were effectively like a mini-levels, each string having a similar theme in mechanics. Unlike Super Metroid, where a full clear would be getting all of the items, a full clear (201%) in SotN meant exploring every square of the map. Similar to Super Metroid, players would be tasked with finding new upgrades to explore more of Dracula's castle, but unlike Super Metroid this could mean having to take a new upgrade to an old area to get to a new area for a new upgrade. Backtracking was a necessity and in abundance as players would be hunting all over the place to get to the next upgrade. However, unlike Super Metroid, players had access to teleporters to expedite their journey. Also unlike Super Metroid, new weapons and armor could periodically be found and equipped, and the best of these could only be found in the "Reverse Castle," while some equipment could be found in walls, secret rooms, dropped off of slain enemies, or bought from a librarian. However, aside from the best equipment, the real ending, and an increased difficulty, there was no reason to explore the Reverse Castle.

Symphony of the Night is the game that defines the vania in Metroidvania.

In short, the term means a game with a lot of different regions and the ability to go back to those regions at any time, with items and pickups scattered throughout the map.

 

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23rd July, 2010 at 18:28:11 -

Okay, great. So now we know exactly what Metroidvania means. I thought that we would address this next issue later, once we had decided upon a gameplay style, but I think we're going to have to do it now.

We have to decide what exactly it is we want to accomplish with this game. Are we trying to make the next indie classic? Is it just a game made for fun, so people have something to do? Is this the game Clickteam will use to promote MMF2?

We also have to think about how big a game we want to make. Is this going to be huge, or just something someone could knock out in about an hour?

These are things we have to think about as well.

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 18:41:20 -

I think the best direction would be to have the game be made for fun, but develop it well enough Clickteam cold use it to promote MMF.

 
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23rd July, 2010 at 19:00:07 -


Originally Posted by Jon Lambert
Hence my comment at the end of each of my posts amounting to "We'll have to do whatever the people want." If you all get to defend your Metroidvania-style, then I should get to defend my Wario Land 2-style.



If Metroidvania is easier to work on, then I think we should go that route. If Wario Land 2 is easier to work on, then I think we should go that route. I think that we should do whatever is easiest to get started on and is easier to produce content for. I simply care less about the style the game takes, and more about getting work on the project started and getting it done.


Originally Posted by Jon Lambert
We have to decide what exactly it is we want to accomplish with this game. Are we trying to make the next indie classic? Is it just a game made for fun, so people have something to do? Is this the game Clickteam will use to promote MMF2?

We also have to think about how big a game we want to make. Is this going to be huge, or just something someone could knock out in about an hour?

These are things we have to think about as well.



I think our goal should be to prove that a community project can work and create a game that people will want to play.

However, since you mention timing, and that I was looking up some speedruns, I'll point out the following:
The fastest minimalist run in Metroid clocks in at about 18 minutes. The fastest 100% run clocks in at 52 minutes.
The fastest minimalist run in Super Metroid clocks in at 32 minutes, while the fastest 100% run is 55 minutes.
The fastest time in SotN is about 34 minutes, and they skip a few items.
The fastest time for Wario Land 2 is 8 minutes, and I think they take the shortest route. The fastest 100% treasure run is 1:51.

I would hazard a guess that each of those games would require at least two hours to finish for the average player, probably going as high as 6 hours for a full clear.

Now, I point those times out for a reason: In each of those games, it's possible to do a bare minimum to finish it. It's also possible for the player to invest more time and find more stuff. These are games that are great for replayability. That's what we should work towards, having a game that is fun to play and offers replayability.

 

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Indie classic FTW!
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23rd July, 2010 at 21:59:17 -

I do not think a metroidvania would be easier to work on. The nature of the style brings in many complications not present in the linear levels of the wario land 2 style.

 
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24th July, 2010 at 00:56:45 -

What complications would be present?

 

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Coding
All right everyone, we've decided on making a platformer, and while we are currently still working on choosing a gameplay progression model, that does not prevent us from working on coding engines and the like for the game. So, what I would like to do right now is find someone who can lead the coding efforts, a Coding Leader, if you will. The Coding Leader will be responsible for organizing coding efforts, which will require making sure it is apparent as to who is coding what, helping out with any coding that needs work, leading discussion on how things should be coded, and coding things in general. The Coding Leader will not end up having to code everything, but will have to code some things, and because of that, the Coding Leader should be well-rounded in coding skill and have experience with coding platform engines, menus, and the like necessary for a game. If you want to be the Coding Leader, simply say so and say why. Otherwise, if you just want to contribute to coding, say that as well.

Right now we would be working on coding a platform engine, so you can say what you think should be coded in to the engine or discuss how you think it should be coded, and once you get a good idea of this, and we have a Coding Leader, we can get to work on actually coding the engine.

Story
All right people, I figure that to get other parts of the game done as well, it can't hurt to start working on the story right about now. Any story is probably acceptable. Keep in mind that we don't know what the gameplay progression will be like just yet so that may or may not change how the story can work. Otherwise, you can think of pretty much anything. When you do come up with a story or ideas for story elements, remember that you'll need to also think of a theme for the game, e.g. dark, as the music, graphics, and sound will have to match the story.

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24th July, 2010 at 06:24:53 -

I say we take Jon's original design and roll with that. Have the graphics as 'retro-inspired' which will appeal to all those 'indie' lovers but more importantly, in using a restricted colour palette it will be much easier for the artists to maintain a similar art style across the entire game. A retro-style of graphics will also hopefully be easier and quicker to produce.

Music and sound effects would also be easy to match to this style as many clickers here are familiar with creating those sounds.

I think a coder should also make a level editor for the game and then we can have a team of level designers\developers using that tool to make the levels. Having a tool like this would allow a large amount of people to create levels for the game, all independent of each other, very quickly.

 
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24th July, 2010 at 06:31:14 -

I like the idea of having Jon just take the reins with design (the leader was always planned to make final decisions, but it should be soon that that starts happening), but I'm not so sure about the retro. To tell the truth, I'm getting a bit sick of retro. >_>

Wouldn't really bug me either way, just not what I would pick. The ease of production you mentioned is alone probably more important than my opinion on it.

All this updating is exhausting. I'm off for about 47 hours of sleep.

 

  		
  		

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Story
All right people, I figure that to get other parts of the game done as well, it can't hurt to start working on the story right about now. Any story is probably acceptable. Keep in mind that we don't know what the gameplay progression will be like just yet so that may or may not change how the story can work. Otherwise, you can think of pretty much anything. When you do come up with a story or ideas for story elements, remember that you'll need to also think of a theme for the game, e.g. dark, as the music, graphics, and sound will have to match the story.



Okaaaay, if we're going with Metroidvania, then we'll presumaby be setting the game in a large, explorable area that's still inclosed to a degree. Castles and alien planets have already been covered, so it might be wise to avoid those. That leaves us with...

Mine?
Hotel?
Shopping mall?
Buckingham Palace?
Office block?
TSR-approved dungeon?
Treetop village?
Giant cake?
Sewer?
Inside a whale?
Steampunk airship?
Ordinary house as seen by a really tiny character?
Twisted carnival?

 
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24th July, 2010 at 15:24:25 -

I think Andy's idea of a level editor is great, I can easily help out the project with creating levels in a level editor with having to always stay in touch.

Though the level editor should be detailed enough to make the game fun to look at as well as play.

 
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24th July, 2010 at 15:51:15 -

If we did a Metroidvania game, level making would be a little more difficult, because you'd have to make sure that you knew how many people were making however many rooms, what region they were for, judge them to see that they fight the region's gameplay theme, make sure they connect to each other, and so on and so forth. It sounds like it'd be harder.

Our level editor should have a number of tiles to use so that people can make whatever kind of level/room they want, that is, have a number of gameplay elements, and it should also have define the tileset for a level by a single value that can be edited easily, so that more tilesets can be made and added in later. And such.

 
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24th July, 2010 at 22:38:28 -

What Jon said, for sure.

 
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Originally Posted by Jon Lambert
Coding
All right everyone, we've decided on making a platformer, and while we are currently still working on choosing a gameplay progression model, that does not prevent us from working on coding engines and the like for the game. So, what I would like to do right now is find someone who can lead the coding efforts, a Coding Leader, if you will. The Coding Leader will be responsible for organizing coding efforts, which will require making sure it is apparent as to who is coding what, helping out with any coding that needs work, leading discussion on how things should be coded, and coding things in general. The Coding Leader will not end up having to code everything, but will have to code some things, and because of that, the Coding Leader should be well-rounded in coding skill and have experience with coding platform engines, menus, and the like necessary for a game. If you want to be the Coding Leader, simply say so and say why. Otherwise, if you just want to contribute to coding, say that as well.

Right now we would be working on coding a platform engine, so you can say what you think should be coded in to the engine or discuss how you think it should be coded, and once you get a good idea of this, and we have a Coding Leader, we can get to work on actually coding the engine.

Story
All right people, I figure that to get other parts of the game done as well, it can't hurt to start working on the story right about now. Any story is probably acceptable. Keep in mind that we don't know what the gameplay progression will be like just yet so that may or may not change how the story can work. Otherwise, you can think of pretty much anything. When you do come up with a story or ideas for story elements, remember that you'll need to also think of a theme for the game, e.g. dark, as the music, graphics, and sound will have to match the story.



The game needs to be heavily modifiable. Since this is a community project, it is important that later on people are able to add new levels and extend the functionality. Thus it is important to make it open source and add a level editor. All music and graphics should be stored externally. BTW, I'm still working on my platform engine. It has become more complex than I anticipated.
It is also important in my opinion to have many items to collect and sidequests not important to the main story. Look at Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. There is a wealth of stuff to do outside of the main story (i.e. get Epona, find all the heart containers, capture all the Big Poes, etc.) This gives it a lot of replay value and LoZoT is held to be one of the best videogames of all time.

I am sticking with my four-legged animal idea. You are a mercenary working with other mercenaries to chase a sorceror. You manage to catch up with him, but he turns you and your fellow mercenaries into animals. You are changed into a wolf. He then promises to change you and your friends back if you complete a quest for him. Your friends agree, but because of your fierce pride and hatred of the sorceror, you escape. Later you meet up with other sacred animals. It is then that you learn that you have the power to transform into different animals. There are three sacred animals each with their own power. These are your main transformations. You can also acquire minor transformations which are other transformations that are helpful to your quest. Animals in this game are only based on real-life animals. Each animal has their own special power

As per controls: There are only two buttons: One jumps, the other activates your special power.

The two sacred animals that I have thought of right now are: A frog-type animal who has the power to wall jump and double jump (In the 3D mario sense; you know, hit the jump key as you touch the ground to jump higher) as well as inhale and shoot out items/enemies. However, when you have inhaled an item/enemy, your jump strength is decreased and you can't double jump or wall jump.

The other sacred animal I thought of is based off furret from pokemon. He looks like furret but he can run and dash really fast, like sonic. He has the power to dash up walls and steep angled slopes.

The last animal I thought of is a minor transformation: a spider. Instead of jump, he can shoot a thread to any point that he can shoot to. His special power is reminiscent of the grappling beam in Super Metroid.

You can change form at will and it is important in many boss battles as the sacred animals are the only animals that can attack and damage enemies.

 
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25th July, 2010 at 02:11:29 -


Originally Posted by Watermelon876
The game needs to be heavily modifiable. Since this is a community project, it is important that later on people are able to add new levels and extend the functionality. Thus it is important to make it open source and add a level editor. All music and graphics should be stored externally.



I don't see why one necessitates the other, but it's an idea. I'm more for a closed experience with a storyline and a complete package. Maybe some functionality akin to Knytt's downloadable stories could be done, but that seems a completely different direction for gameplay progression.

 

  		
  		

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25th July, 2010 at 02:47:48 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton

Originally Posted by Watermelon876
The game needs to be heavily modifiable. Since this is a community project, it is important that later on people are able to add new levels and extend the functionality. Thus it is important to make it open source and add a level editor. All music and graphics should be stored externally.



I don't see why one necessitates the other, but it's an idea. I'm more for a closed experience with a storyline and a complete package. Maybe some functionality akin to Knytt's downloadable stories could be done, but that seems a completely different direction for gameplay progression.



Actually I just told you my idea as an afterthought. That one is more of a storyline based game.

Edited by Watermelon876

 
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25th July, 2010 at 04:27:57 -

I think it's only important to make things external if it makes the game easier to develop. Making the levels external will allow lots of people to make levels at the same time, but creating a custom system to load and animate the player sprite for example will probably just slow down development and it's unlikely that we'll need more than one person working on that sprite anyway. It would be better to have that as an active object. I think the sounds/music can also be internal too, it's not a difficult thing to change. Making the tilesets external is probably a good idea though.

 
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25th July, 2010 at 05:31:02 -

What about spritesheets, rather than each frame being its own png? It is relatively simple to load an animation from those.

 
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25th July, 2010 at 05:42:46 -

Using a level editor could speed up production of levels, and it would be much easier to compile the levels any time there is a change made to them. It's a much better idea than having a frame for every level and painstakingly migrating everyone's code together across all of the frames.

Only problem I can foresee is that we don't have any gameplay designs yet. Can't make any levels, or the editor to make those levels, until we have some idea of what the gameplay is. Honestly though, I think it would be much faster to take the moves from Jon's design doc a few pages back (the one that had the diagrams) and use those. Add or cut moves later.

 

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25th July, 2010 at 07:11:52 -

I would like to suggest a Samurai Theme to the game. As in ",it takes place in a fantasy version of Feudal Japan." The Areas could possibly be a big palace/dungeon, and possibly some kind of underworld where the Hero must fight Demons. Also an atmospheric Forest could serve as the third area. Then finally a mountain/caves/snow area.

I think Demons should be the main antagonists. Not all demons, but a few demon Kings/lords who control the others.



 
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25th July, 2010 at 08:02:31 -

That's not a good idea, Fish. That's a great idea. The demon lords thing would lend itself really well to branching paths, as the player would be able to chase down some or all (and maybe even none?) of the demons. Not only that, demons could have relics and such for the player to collect along their journey, if we want them to have something for showing they cleared all of the levels.

In case anyone can't find the design doc Jon uploaded, it's still here: http://gumman.desertstorms.net/index.html
Anyhow, the samurai thing would fit in really well with the possible actions listed on that page. The locations you suggested could also diversify level design by quite a bit. For example, the snow area could have ice, making ordinary terrain more of an ordeal to cross, while the caves could have icicles that fall and endanger the player.

 

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25th July, 2010 at 08:22:17 -

I like the samurai idea. I like it a lot. And the underwold. Perhaps you fail to rescue someone and have to save them by going into the underworld and fighting some demons. Or not.


My vote: Samurai

 
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25th July, 2010 at 09:52:19 -

A samurai game sounds way less generic than the cop game suggested a while back. Plus you have the potential for more stylish moves, depending on whether the protagonist is a heavily-armored warrior or a fast, nimble, lightly-armored soldier. Plus you've got a wide selection of Japanese blade weapons to toy around with.

Also, since Fish suggested demons as a key plot element, I assume that the theme would involve a high level of mysticism/magic? If so, that opens up an even greater variety of skills that the player could learn and use.

 

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25th July, 2010 at 10:46:33 -

Magical skills to learn/find seems to push a bit into the RPG genre.

 

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25th July, 2010 at 11:55:10 -

A game can't have magic in it without being an RPG?

...

 
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25th July, 2010 at 12:51:07 -

If you want to avoid RPG elements, the magic could revolve mainly around overcoming obstacles in the game world as opposed to combat with enemies. For example, magic could be used to create new platforms, open up passageways, create a waypoint between two locations, etc.

I remember playing a Japanese metroidvania called Bunny Must Die in which you could learn time-related abilities. For example, freezing time would allow you to jump onto fast-moving platforms more easily and attack enemies without worrying about getting hit, while reversing time would create a timey-wimey clone of yourself that would go back and re-press any of the switches you recently pressed in the same room. It was a pretty neat concept.

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25th July, 2010 at 13:00:05 -

Just use my Obama idea from way back:

You are Barack Obama- President of the People by day, Terrorist ass-kicking Ninja by night.
Maybe in this mission you'll be ordered to save.... YOURSELF?

Ninja Magic:

The Bill of Rights (super flurry of right hooks)
The Exectutive Branch (powerful tree trunk strike)
Capitol Hill (summons $$ to spend at the shop)

And more!

HOW CAN THIS GO WRONG?

I agree with the level editor idea, it'd speed up level production and tweaking by like a thousand percent.

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25th July, 2010 at 14:15:49 -


Originally Posted by Strife
If you want to avoid RPG elements, the magic could revolve mainly around overcoming obstacles in the game world as opposed to combat with enemies. For example, magic could be used to create new platforms, open up passageways, create a waypoint between two locations, etc.



There's nothing RPG in magic itself. It's just a silly association people have because magic is almost exclusively used in RPG's only. Mages in RPG's cast fireballs, right? Does that mean Super Mario games are RPG's because Mario can throw fireballs? The only difference is that Mario throws the fireball, while mages cast/conjure one. Does that mean casting magic turns a game into an RPG? In that case, any magic cast in any game makes it automatically an RPG?

There's no logic there.

Magic does not equal RPG. Press a button, swing a sword. Press a button, cast a fireball. It's all the same, different visuals. It's only when you start playing with numbers, upgrades, customization and whatnot, that bring on the so called RPG features.

That said though, we'd want to avoid the cliché line-up of magic, like fire balls, fire walls, wind blades, tidal waves, falling/rising rocks/ice blocks, lightning bolts, chain lightning...

That is if we want the game to have unique spells.


I remember playing a Japanese metroidvania called Bunny Must Die in which you could learn time-related abilities. For example, freezing time would allow you to jump onto fast-moving platforms more easily and attack enemies without worrying about getting hit, while reversing time would create a timey-wimey clone of yourself that would go back and re-press any of the switches you recently pressed in the same room. It was a pretty neat concept.



Time manipulation is cool, but so overdone these days. It's like every other game plays with rewinding, slow motion, enhanced speed or any other similar feature.

 
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For the story how about we have 2 player characters, a man and a woman?

About the play progression, I have not played wario world but I have played Super Mario World on the SNES. Is the map system people are talking about like that? If so I think that would be easer than a metroidvania style as each level can be self contained while being linked to the over wourld. You could have short cut levels, witch are more difficult, and side quest levels where you can get items witch will make life a little easier. Also, it could be cool to have them learn different movies or get better magic as the game progresses.

 
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25th July, 2010 at 17:57:31 -

The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).

 
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25th July, 2010 at 18:06:18 -


Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).



Either that, or try to go for a Pacifist run. :3

Buuut I agree with HitmanN: Magic =/= RPG. There are plenty of Zelda games out there without RPG mechanics, and we all know how magical they are.

 

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25th July, 2010 at 18:35:45 -

A feudal theme is an excellent idea! The game could be structured like Megaman so that you can pick which demon to fight at a time or like super metroid where you traverse through many areas to collect powerups to explore further and find the demon lords and kill them. Since this game is starting to sound a bit like a Zelda platformer, why not have two different worlds fro your character to explore? The normal world and a demon world which is dark, similar to in A Link to The Past, how there's a light world and the sacred realm. However, I think it's better to have the game inspired by feudal Japan rather than explicitly in it as otherwise, we'd need to research to mantain historical accuracy.

Moving on, the Barrack Obama idea also sounds cool!

 
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25th July, 2010 at 21:25:21 -


Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).



Yeah, plus we can have a "the dark side of the force," thing which will give the Player different powers whether he chooses the Good or Bad side. If he chooses the Demon side then he will have to fight other Samurais, but eventually at the end if he chose the Demon side there would be a "bad" ending. If he chose Humans then there would be a "good" ending.

 
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25th July, 2010 at 21:45:01 -

What about if the samurai had a few types of skills and a limited amount of "skill ups" found throughout the game.

Ex.

Sword
Naginata (spear w/ a blade)
Armor
Bow & Arrow
Agility

Swords could be short ranged but powerful, naginatas would give you reach, armor of course would lessen enemy damage done to you, bow and arrows would be powerful ranged weapons but require ammo (maybe increases in skills here gave your more max arrows in your quiver?), and lastly agility which would help you move faster and perhaps jump higher as well.

Now let say each can be powered up 3 times. Each new player'd start with 0 in each. Since they're limited you could have different builds for each game and not be able to do / see everything on a single playthrough.

So how do you sweeten the deal? Simple! By completing the game you win an extra "skill up" to add to whatever skill you want and restart a new game like that. Or you save your character's stats to use for a new game later.

 
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25th July, 2010 at 21:56:09 -


Originally Posted by Fish20

Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).



Yeah, plus we can have a "the dark side of the force," thing which will give the Player different powers whether he chooses the Good or Bad side. If he chooses the Demon side then he will have to fight other Samurais, but eventually at the end if he chose the Demon side there would be a "bad" ending. If he chose Humans then there would be a "good" ending.



I don't think that many people will choose the dark side of the force, honestly because humans are inherently good. Better to give a series of choices not entirely good or bad and show the consequences of the players actions. Otherwise, I don't really think that the players will choose the demon side and it will be wasted work. I know that after learning the alien's story in IJI, I could never bring myself to shoot them.

 
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25th July, 2010 at 22:09:45 -


Originally Posted by Watermelon876

Originally Posted by Fish20

Originally Posted by Matthew Wiese
The samurai idea could work well with being able to choose one, or all the demons to fight. And maybe even no demons (like the main character chooses to join the side of the demons and fight humanity).



Yeah, plus we can have a "the dark side of the force," thing which will give the Player different powers whether he chooses the Good or Bad side. If he chooses the Demon side then he will have to fight other Samurais, but eventually at the end if he chose the Demon side there would be a "bad" ending. If he chose Humans then there would be a "good" ending.



I don't think that many people will choose the dark side of the force, honestly because humans are inherently good. Better to give a series of choices not entirely good or bad and show the consequences of the players actions. Otherwise, I don't really think that the players will choose the demon side and it will be wasted work. I know that after learning the alien's story in IJI, I could never bring myself to shoot them.



They might choose Humans first, but the game could be way different, gameplay and story wise, if they choose the demons. It's not like someone's going to play Resident Evil 2 and only play as Leon, then never go back and play the game as Claire, as Claire's scenario is different.

 
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25th July, 2010 at 22:43:54 -

Magic itself isn't inherently RPG-like. There's greater potential in magic for it to be upgradeable, like getting a level 2 fireball, that would qualify it as being RPG. If not upgrading the spells themselves, then upgrading the character to improve casting ability.

I actually object more to the usage of having spells for navigating the environment instead of combat. It's easy to have levels that make use of the spell after it's acquired, but then what about when the player finishes the game and starts over with what they have (if we do that)? Now EVERY level has to be designed with that in mind so that the player can make use of it everywhere they go. How many layers of design do you want to put on a level so that players can use everything more often than never? I believe it'll complicate the level design process, is what I'm getting at.

I also object to having combat magic because if there is any ranged spell, then that would sort of defeat the purpose of being a samurai. Melee characters should use melee attacks, not be throwing fireballs or what have you.


We should really start with simple mechanics. The basic mechanics Jon outlined in that design document are good starting point.

 

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25th July, 2010 at 23:33:07 -

the base mechanics of a samurai game should be jump and attack. Since samurai are only allowed one attack to kill their opponents, it'll be an interesting game mechanic. I figure high and low attacks should be used. You have to watch your opponents patterns to judge when to attack. Each attack must kill an enemy or you must kill yourself without showing pain to redeem your honor.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 01:01:29 -

I think you should all take a step back and remember what you first said.. this game should be relatively simple to make as a first attempt at a community project. A metroidvania game with magic/armour/weapons and upgrades / alternate pathways/endings etc. sounds like at least a solid years work... really probably should start with something fairly linear and not so ambitious...

 
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26th July, 2010 at 01:29:56 -

I'm on the road home at the moment, so I've only skimmed these posts about a Samurai game. Forgive me if I miss something!

My initial impressions: Idea sounds like it could be unique and good if done well, but as Dave C says, we must be sure to keep it manageable (this applies to all ideas though, just don't get carried away in excitement about a fun idea.). I'd be against any complex form of weapons upgrading. If there is a powerup system, it should probably stay limited. It shouldn't confuse players. (e.g., being given so many upgrade credits and told to distribute them. I hate that!)

Also, and the main reason I wanted to post now: Samurai game calls for fluid animation (AHEM, STRIFE. HINT HINT.) and colorful backgrounds, I think. Are those in the cards?

 

  		
  		

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26th July, 2010 at 01:34:40 -

As soon as I read 'Samurai game' I thought of Revenge of Shinobi on the Sega Megadrive/Genesis. That would be an excellent game to take inspiration from.

really simple game but of a very high quality.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 02:25:50 -

As stated above, simplicity is best. I see there a lot of new ideas flooding in that seem to dismiss everything that was discussed prior.

As far I as know, the progression of the game is still going with the wario land 2 style.
The samurai idea was great and I want to run with that, not get carried away.

I'm thinking the leader needs to be chosen now(Jon) and put his foot down to start making the real decisions.
I also think this kind of open forum is also starting to be less and less useful with too many people spouting ideas about too many different things.
The initial group of people that get down to work needs to be much smaller and then can grow and firm decisions are made.

So if the powers that be can make the leader official, we can really get down to work.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 03:17:44 -

Yes, simplicity is great. A game can have a lot of depth, replayability, and fun even if it has really simple mechanics. Super Mario Bros and Tetris immediately come to mind.

 

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26th July, 2010 at 03:44:16 -

I've updated the game design document with the samurai story idea and examples of how the different gameplay progression styles would work with it. You can find the updated document at the same link: http://gumman.desertstorms.net/index.html

You people are going crazy with your ideas! People are going on about upgradeable skills and magics, a number of different, complicated, or otherwise time-consuming elements that may not be good for this project. It seems like you are just saying things you'd like to see in a game more than in this game, or things you'd like without considering what this project is. I don't know. Anyways, it is 21:35 (9 pm) over here, so leader will be announced tomorrow. I think we all have a story we like, so let's think about themes and the like so we can think about graphics, music, sound effects, etc. Is this going to be a dark sort of game? Will it be a quick-paced game? Things like that. Remember that we also need a Coding Leader.

The way the organizational structure will work for the project, I think, is that we'll have six leaders: Design, Graphics, Music, Sound, Coding, and Project Leaders. Once we decide on the other leaders, they will form a group, and that group from then on will make the majority of the decisions regarding the project. This is not to say that other site members will no longer be able to give input, this is just to say that things aren't likely to be as open or democratic as they are now. By the time that happens it will be far enough into the project that democracy likely wouldn't contribute much, and if the leaders do think a democratic poll would be fairer for a particular decision, then it will be done that way. At that point, other site members will be contributing mostly by providing graphics, sounds, music, or code.

If someone thinks they want to lead the coding part of the game project (that is, if you want to be Coding Leader), please DC Mail me a summary of your coding experience, an MFA or exe (preferably mfa) of examples of your coding (not games per se, although those are acceptable, but primarily examples of a platform engine with features shown in the game design document or other features, menus, HUDs, other game code), as well as a paragraph or less telling me why you think you would be good for the position.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 06:23:47 -

What about a Super Mario Brothers 3 style progression?

Image

I think it's a fearly simple system. Each level is self contained, but it still allows for exploration and side quests. Fore instance in the tip right side of the map there is a set of 3 levels that you don't need to do. They could represent a side quest that you could do just for extra points or health items. It could be that completing those levels some how makes latter levels easer by deactivating a particular type of trap or giving you a power up.

And each over world map would be like a different demon besieged kingdom.

I think it would be good to have some power ups but nothing too elaborate. I'm thinking of stuff like spread shot throwing stars, longer swords. Kind of like SMUP power ups I guess.

Also, maybe we should start a project page so it will have it's own forum. That way we can have different threads discussing different topics rather than just one giant thread that is a huge pile of stuff.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 06:27:11 -

I'm pretty sure most people are against upgrading skills in an overcomplicated way, but a very simple way such as aquiring powers instead could be extremely simple. Simple as "global value 'doubleJump' = 1, activate group 'doubleJump'" or "global value 'Fireball' = 2, activate group 'bigfireball'". Im bad at coding though so someone else could probably explain it better.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 06:38:37 -


Originally Posted by Fish20
I'm pretty sure most people are against upgrading skills in an overcomplicated way, but a very simple way such as aquiring powers instead could be extremely simple. Simple as "global value 'doubleJump' = 1, activate group 'doubleJump'" or "global value 'Fireball' = 2, activate group 'bigfireball'". Im bad at coding though so someone else could probably explain it better.



That's pretty much what I'm thinking of. To take from Jon Lambert design doc, stuff like double jump, wall jump and slide would be permanent, as in you have them all the time once you get them. While others like say, fire ball, ice strike or shield would be one offs that would activate when you picked them up and ether run out of get deactivated when hit.

Would that be beyond the scope of the project? We could also go with just collecting permanent powers.

Anyway, I'm still interested to know what people think about an over world progression type?

 
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26th July, 2010 at 06:55:20 -

We could also just have the player be able to do everything at the start of the game, and not have to worry about coding power-ups.

 

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26th July, 2010 at 07:03:49 -

Disthron, I like that style of progression, but I want to retain the dynamic length of the game that comes with Jon's wario land 2 idea.
It won't be any more difficult to do and it's something that hasn't been explored much in games.
I want to have a world map and I want there to be a choice in where the player is going, but I want there to be certain ways to achieve those things.
I also think it would be best to limit the player in progression to a certain degree until they finish the game once. Then the whole map would open up to replay and the player could see all the potention paths they didn't take yet and play through those.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 08:29:53 -

I had a thought in regards to the narrative: Do we really need one? I don't think so.

Imagine the following opening cutscene, as a simple text marquee (like Star Wars):

2,000 years ago, the Demon Lord Omen was banished from this realm by seven sages. The sages cast the Demon Lord out with a seal, to be broken after one hundred solar eclipses pass. They did this hoping that future generations would have the power to strike the Demon Lord down forever.

In just a few hours, the hundredth eclipse is fast approaching. Travel to where the seal was buried and put an end to Omen!


Does that add anything to the game? Does it matter that we know that 100 eclipses have to pass, or that there were seven sages? No, no, and no. It's a stupid narrative (it was written to be that way), and it serves no point.

So, I think we should reduce any narrative down to essentially nothing. At the start of the game, a villager can run by the player and say, "Samurai, demons are attacking my village!" and is then promptly slain by one. It establishes that the player is controlling a samurai, it establishes that there are demons, and that's really all we need. The player can make the choice (without any narrative) to go save the village or not. Let's not even give the character a name, and make them be as much of a blank slate as we can. Let the players come up with a narrative as they play.

After all, Super Mario Bros has no narrative, and it's a pretty damn fine game regardless. (The story would be that he's a plumber rescuing a princess. Narrative would be the telling of who, what, where, when, and why like modern games do.)

Besides, not having a narrative means that multiple storylines don't have to be written to conform to branching paths.

 

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26th July, 2010 at 08:39:54 -

I agree with that completely. Let's not even have any text at all. Let's just have a nifty title screen that sets everything up and then jump straight into the action.
Anything story related should happen during the gameplay and not hold up the player in any way.
That keeps things simple and interesting.

And yeah, you'd still get a sense of what's going on by the actions you take and what happens on screen. We can call it "play, don't show". Or "play don't tell and show too much". Or whatever, you get the idea.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 11:43:20 -


Originally Posted by aphant

I also object to having combat magic because if there is any ranged spell, then that would sort of defeat the purpose of being a samurai. Melee characters should use melee attacks, not be throwing fireballs or what have you.



Good point.

The magic could instead be helpful, like... a gust of wind brings a cloud of leaves or sand to blind the enemies for a few seconds, making them unable to attack during that time. Basically, it could be mostly simple buffs and debuffs (in RPG terms), to make melee combat easier.

Instead of healing spells, there could be some sort of curse that you can cast on enemies, which makes them more likely to drop a health item.

In the end, you'd still need to kill the enemies with melee attacks in both cases.

Maybe magic could only be cast every 10 seconds or something. A simple counter bar at the top fills up, and once it's full you're ready to cast whichever spell you like. This way you won't be spamming spells constantly, but rather seeking good opportunities.

This way there could also, I think, be a weak ranged attack spell. If you want to spend the spell of the moment on doing a tiny bit of damage to an enemy, instead of making it easier to melee fight them, that's your choice. Killing enemies with the attacks spells would take way too long to be a sensible tactic in any case. The ranged attack could even be a magically enhanced sword attack, like a wave of some sort, to maintain the feel of intense sword battle.

Just some ideas to think about. I don't think we need many spells for a game like this though. Three should do, maybe a powered up version for each.

Edited by HitmanN

 
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26th July, 2010 at 12:10:26 -


Originally Posted by aphant
I had a thought in regards to the narrative: Do we really need one? I don't think so.

Imagine the following opening cutscene, as a simple text marquee (like Star Wars):

2,000 years ago, the Demon Lord Omen was banished from this realm by seven sages. The sages cast the Demon Lord out with a seal, to be broken after one hundred solar eclipses pass. They did this hoping that future generations would have the power to strike the Demon Lord down forever.

In just a few hours, the hundredth eclipse is fast approaching. Travel to where the seal was buried and put an end to Omen!


Does that add anything to the game? Does it matter that we know that 100 eclipses have to pass, or that there were seven sages? No, no, and no. It's a stupid narrative (it was written to be that way), and it serves no point.

So, I think we should reduce any narrative down to essentially nothing. At the start of the game, a villager can run by the player and say, "Samurai, demons are attacking my village!" and is then promptly slain by one. It establishes that the player is controlling a samurai, it establishes that there are demons, and that's really all we need. The player can make the choice (without any narrative) to go save the village or not. Let's not even give the character a name, and make them be as much of a blank slate as we can. Let the players come up with a narrative as they play.

After all, Super Mario Bros has no narrative, and it's a pretty damn fine game regardless. (The story would be that he's a plumber rescuing a princess. Narrative would be the telling of who, what, where, when, and why like modern games do.)

Besides, not having a narrative means that multiple storylines don't have to be written to conform to branching paths.



I have to disagree. If there is no story, then there is no reason to keep playing. You are right that Super Mario has no narrative and to me that is it's biggest flaw. It has some cool gameplay features but ultimately it didn't take me very long to hit a difficulty wall and with no story to make me wont to push through it I put it down.

It dosen't have to be some intricate labyrinthine plot it could even be but a silly camp story but there should be something.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 12:39:08 -

I knocked up a (very, very quick) piece of concept art based on the samurai idea:
http://s952.photobucket.com/albums/ae2/NeilEm/?action=view¤t=samurai.jpg

And if anyone's interested, here's a piece of animatin I'm working on for a game character:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61poiCl-6uk

By the by, if I can throw another suggestion out there, I'd say that feudal Japan is already fairly well-worn. Maybe we should put the samurai in an unusual setting - samurai in space? Samurai in the old West?

Maybe samurai in steampunk Britain? After all, they did turn up in HG Wells' Modern Utopia.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 13:12:46 -

I sort of like the idea of limiting text, but I don't think text should be banned outright. Then you're just limiting the story. Like watching a movie with no dialogue. We just have to make sure not to go overboard with the narrative.

Also, let's not do something bizarre like Samurai in space.

 

  		
  		

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26th July, 2010 at 14:51:17 -

The limited intro text telling of the story is a great idea. It allows the player to "decide" the story as he goes along.

Example: He chooses to not save the town and then thinks to himself that the samurai may have to battle his moralities and that's how he will play.

Also I think the gameplay should revolve around something like a run n' gun but more in the hack n' slash way. The gameplay could be similar to Contra, but instead of shooting you run around using different powerups and swords to hack and slash away the enemies (ninjas, other samurai, demons, etc.)

@ NE: I think that Samurai mock-up looks a bit, anorexic...

 
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26th July, 2010 at 17:14:12 -


@ NE: I think that Samurai mock-up looks a bit, anorexic...



Hmm, my characters tend towards the skinny. This is about as buff as thet get:
http://s952.photobucket.com/albums/ae2/NeilEm/?action=view¤t=TheseusSheetsml.jpg

 
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26th July, 2010 at 18:18:29 -

Here, try this one. He won't blow over come tsunami time:

Image

 
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26th July, 2010 at 18:54:38 -

Just jumping in here :}

I've never seen a platformer where a mount is a main feature (except maybe with Mario and Yoshi), and Samurai's were known for their riding skills, as well as archery while mounted. Perhaps magic arrows would be abilities, too? Maybe even different mounts could be accessible later in the game.


Love the concept sketch by the way, Del Duio.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 19:42:44 -

You could have it act like NES Blaster Master, only replace Jason and the Tank with a samurai and his horse.

Or maybe have the horse act like a temporary thing to use in some fights, like how Golden Axe had those riding dragons or Knights of the Round had those warhorses for items that lasted for a lil' bit.

Of course now we're getting into "complicated" territory and nobody here seems to like it much

 
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26th July, 2010 at 20:14:27 -


Originally Posted by Disthron
I have to disagree. If there is no story, then there is no reason to keep playing.



Tetris.

 

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26th July, 2010 at 21:55:58 -

Was Tetris a platformer with a main character and enemies and a motivation for fighting them?

 

  		
  		

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26th July, 2010 at 21:58:11 -

Has there been consideration of a 2 player mode? I always miss games like Zombies ate my neighbors, Joe and Mac, and the turtles games. I thought the tmnt games especially could have been improved with some branching paths or upgrades.

Perhaps instead of a map screen or just one massive interconnected world (metroid style) there could be a central town you explore. There could be paintings on the walls mario 64 style that transport you around. Your you could be warped around my magic portals or something. The central town would also allow you to buy upgrades or power ups.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 22:10:10 -

I'll also jump in with an idea I toyed around with on a game called "samurai cat". Instead of just a sword slice attack, your attack would be more directional, possibly something like the homing attack in later sonic games. This would add a more acrobatic style to the typical swordplay game. You could also have a charge attack where you hold down a button and a cursor appears, yoshi's island style, the cursor spins around the character, and upon releasing the attack button he would thrust in the direction of the cursor. This could possibly be used in lieu of a jump. If you did this attack in the direction of a wall he could ricochet up the wall.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 22:18:01 -

The best progression system in my opinion: After you beat the first level you go to the next. No complex Wario 2/ Metroidvania. And something crazy like a samurai in space is exactly what this needs to be awesome!

 
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26th July, 2010 at 22:40:50 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Was Tetris a platformer with a main character and enemies and a motivation for fighting them?



Point was, a game does not need any sort of story to be fun or to give the player motivation to keep playing. A great game can stand on it's own legs without any story. Starcraft has been doing that for 10 years, while Tetris and Super Mario bros have been doing it for over 20 years. Even New Super Mario Bros Wii doesn't have much more in the way of story than the original had. Donkey Kong (the original arcade game with Mario climbing platforms) didn't have anything in the way of story, and Donkey Kong Country had very little story to it (K. Rool stole your bananas). These are all classic games that are still played today because of how good the game is, not because the story is compelling. Even the best Sonic games (the first two) have very little story, and see what adding it in did for the franchise?

Simply put, platformers do not need to tell a story.

 

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26th July, 2010 at 23:29:23 -


Originally Posted by aphant

Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Was Tetris a platformer with a main character and enemies and a motivation for fighting them?



Point was, a game does not need any sort of story to be fun or to give the player motivation to keep playing. A great game can stand on it's own legs without any story. Starcraft has been doing that for 10 years, while Tetris and Super Mario bros have been doing it for over 20 years. Even New Super Mario Bros Wii doesn't have much more in the way of story than the original had. Donkey Kong (the original arcade game with Mario climbing platforms) didn't have anything in the way of story, and Donkey Kong Country had very little story to it (K. Rool stole your bananas). These are all classic games that are still played today because of how good the game is, not because the story is compelling. Even the best Sonic games (the first two) have very little story, and see what adding it in did for the franchise?

Simply put, platformers do not need to tell a story.



Well Starcraft and Donkey Kong did have stories, but I see your point and I agree. Kirby didn't have much in the way of a story either.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 23:31:47 -

I'm with aphant on this, fun first! A story really has to grip me in order for me not to skip every cutscene or not read the dialogue at all. Also, considering this is a community effort and everyone involved will know everything, a story really isn't necessary, none of us will care much about it because we'll all know what happens.

 
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26th July, 2010 at 23:48:34 -

Yes, Starcraft did have a story, but it hasn't remained popular for 10 years because of it. It's popular because the gameplay is pretty damn solid.

Meanwhile, Donkey Kong Country also does technically have a story: K. Rool stole all the bananas, and Donkey Kong has to get them back. Very simple, told right at the beginning, and then there is NOTHING told throughout the course of the game, not even after K. Rool is defeated. We're not given any of DK's motives to go get the bananas, or why he brought Diddy, or why there are animals in crates that are friendly to him. It's as simple as, "bananas are gone, go get them back."

This game's story can be as simple as, "there are demons, go slay them."

 

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26th July, 2010 at 23:52:18 -

A platformer certainly can stand on its own without a story! Fine-tuned quality, engaging gameplay, and uniqueness will all have to be off the charts to pull it off though.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

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27th July, 2010 at 01:26:26 -


Originally Posted by Disthron

I have to disagree. If there is no story, then there is no reason to keep playing. You are right that Super Mario has no narrative and to me that is it's biggest flaw. It has some cool gameplay features but ultimately it didn't take me very long to hit a difficulty wall and with no story to make me wont to push through it I put it down.

It dosen't have to be some intricate labyrinthine plot it could even be but a silly camp story but there should be something.



There are loads of things you can use to keep a person playing. Take Altered beast as one example. That game is extremely linear and has no plot beyond 'Rise from your grave and rescue my daughter' but the hook to keep people playing was finding out what monster you would turn into on the next level.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 01:39:42 -

There would be a story, it just wouldn't be told in words or cutscenes.

And yeesh, just as I thought things were getting slightly on track everything veers off course again.

The reason why simplicity is so important is because we actually want to get this project done in a reasonable amount of time. There is no need to overcomplicate things now. We don't know how well everyone will work together. We don't know the workflow of the game. It needs to start small.

The wario land 2 idea doesn't over complicate things at all because it's esentially just more levels being made. It keeps things simple yet interesting and I don't believe it's an idea that's been explored enough.

But enough talk, where's the leader already? All these clashing ideas are hurting my brain.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 03:30:01 -

At this point in time, the poll dictates that I be leader. I'm not going to close the poll just yet because we admins never close the general poll in a timely manner, but, for now at least, I am the TDC Community Project Leader. I suppose that that requires me to make leader-like decisions now.

First things first, I think the story is pretty set as being about a samurai. Where is the samurai? It seems that we haven't decided on that yet. Is everyone okay with the samurai's goal to be defeating demons that have taken over the land?

As far as complicated matters go, the reason we are trying to shy away from such things is because we don't want the project to get too complex and become impossible to finish (as happens with many projects, not just community ones.) The community aspect of this project is especially important to consider because that will make it harder to do things such as buying weapon upgrades, learning a load of new skills, or things like that, as people will have to be briefed on that and keep many things in mind when they make their levels. I'm not saying we can't do things like skills or level ups of some kind, but it would have to be concise and well-confined to the engine, not reliant on level structure or things like that. Something that can be used universally. An example of something that might work would be a Cave Story-esque level up system, which worked in all levels just the same. Keep these things in mind.

I like that people are already coming up with concept art for the character. You can continue to do so, but remember to work on the other elements of the story so that we can start deciding what the game will look and sound like, and begin to do concept art for enemies, environments, and other things.

Very important note!
Remember that I would like to see someone be Coding Leader! This is a very good time to begin work on the platforming engine and possibly a level editor, so whoever thinks they would be good at heading up development of the engine and other coding aspects of the game, please speak up! Also remember that I would like it if you provided an exe or mfa example of your coding skills, either in a DC mail or in a post.

So the main points of this post were working on what the samurai is doing and where, think about how viable the features you suggest would be for working into a community project, and if you want to be a coder, please say so, and if you want to lead the coding part of the project, please say that as well.

I would like to make a project page once we have a story and a Coding Leader.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 05:37:26 -

I think we have the story pretty much decided upon, save the people of the game world from demons. And from what I have learned the setting of the story will be in feudal Japan. Maybe something to solidify the story the character may have to save someone from the demons or a sacred artifact for the people of a village.

I'd volunteer for a rather large position of maybe senior level designer, or something related to the gameplay aspect. But nothing as big as Coding Leader or Audio/Graphics leader.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 06:07:16 -

I personally think "A samurai. Fighting Demons. In Japan" is kinda cliche. Why not have each element be something unexpected? Instead of "A dog. In a Backyard. With a Bone" do "A dog. In a minefield. With a boomerang" or something. What if the samurai was teleported to a desert, and the levels were mirages. You could do all sorts of crazy things with level designs and backgrounds without being confined to "a japanese village and. . . a forest outside a japanese village" Plus the enemies could be just as crazy and out there as demons.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 06:20:24 -

I'm also thinking the horse could be a separate style of level, instead of something within the levels (like yoshi). Like in shinobi III there were the separate autoscrolling horseriding levels. Maybe the horseriding levels could be something like Yoshi's Safari, where you're behind him riding on a horse and you have to throw shurikens at enemies.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 07:15:31 -

The game world should not be based in Japan, but based on it. This gives us more freedom to add whatever differences we want (such as there being Saharah desert or Himalaya esque levels). Also, we could have unnatural themes like the underworld or .....space?

Anyways there should be atleast one level where you must fight off hoardes of enemies in a barren wasteland.

Edit: We are going to have some sort of plot. Even if it's just a few cutscenes at the beginning, middle, and end. The gameplay needs to be simple. Samurai shouldn't really have any sort of magic. They are warriors. Warriors don't use combat magic. They use swordsmanship (is that even a word?) or brute strength, and occasionally they also have bows and arrows. There should be no customization at all. Maybe in the next community project we can do an RPG, then there can be all the customization you want. This must be simple. Its ok to have powers that you gain, but no skill trees or stats. So pretty much the main attacks should be Melee Weapons (Katanas, Spears, etc.) and Ranged Weapons (Bows, Javelins, Shuriken?, etc.). We should probably settle with one of each type, as having 4+ weapons will complicate things. I'm not sure if this will be too complicated, but the player could select 1 weapon of each type (Melee, Ranged) at the beginning. If you beat the game maybe you could get the ultimate weapon and replay with that later if you want. Also, we should have lots of different branches of Designers and coders. For example, Level designers 1,2,3. Enemy Designers 1,2,3. Story Designers 1,2,3. Character Designer (for NPCs and the main character.) Gameplay designers 1,2,3. Lead designer. Of course not all these positions must be filled, but in order for everyone to do what they want, we must have positions open. Then if all the other positions aren't filled yet, we must try to find other members to fill them or pull some extras from the design section. Also some people could have multiple jobs if there's not enough people. I defiantly want to do some sort of design though.

Edited by Fish20

 
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27th July, 2010 at 12:56:29 -


Originally Posted by Fish20
The game world should not be based in Japan, but based on it. This gives us more freedom to add whatever differences we want (such as there being Saharah desert or Himalaya esque levels). Also, we could have unnatural themes like the underworld or .....space?

Anyways there should be atleast one level where you must fight off hoardes of enemies in a barren wasteland.

Edit: We are going to have some sort of plot. Even if it's just a few cutscenes at the beginning, middle, and end. The gameplay needs to be simple. Samurai shouldn't really have any sort of magic. They are warriors. Warriors don't use combat magic. They use swordsmanship (is that even a word?) or brute strength, and occasionally they also have bows and arrows. There should be no customization at all. Maybe in the next community project we can do an RPG, then there can be all the customization you want. This must be simple. Its ok to have powers that you gain, but no skill trees or stats.



I have to agree. For the cut-scenes I think we could definatly put together some Ninja Gaiden type cut-scenes. If you analyse them they aren't very technically complex. They are mostly pans and wipes with some simple animations here and there. Here is a YouTube video to check them out.

Sorry can't figure out how to inbed the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRLqwsXebHQ&feature=related

Edited by Disthron

 
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27th July, 2010 at 13:47:35 -

Question: Since Samurai use swords, is this going to be a particularly bloody or gory game?

 

  		
  		

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27th July, 2010 at 13:51:04 -

I think it should be really bloody and gory.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 13:53:26 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Question: Since Samurai use swords, is this going to be a particularly bloody or gory game?



I'm going to go with probably, yes. Were we still talking about it being in an 8bit style? Becouse that's where most of the community skills lay?

Anyway...

STORY IDEA
Ok, this is an idea I came up with a while ago, and in the original idea it is a stranded fantasy world, not a Japanese one but I think it will work just as well and give our game a little more uniqueness. Anyway, here goes.

So a guy and a girl are taking a flight to Japan with a group of there friends. The girl is a vampire, and this is a world kind of like True Blood or Aneta Blake where supernatural creatures have integrated into regular society. Anyway, during the flight the plain hits extream turbulence and starts being ripped apart. The passengers and crew bail out and when the protagonists wake up after the crash they find themselves in a fantasy version of feudal Japan (ok we can change the names around and not actually call it Japan but you know what I mean).

So, they have to get back to there own time and rescue the other passengers of the plain. In the beggining they help the humans fight the demons simply out of altruism, but as the game progresses they learn about an artefact of power the demon lords wonted witch as it happened was on the plain. This then gives them a personal steak in defeating the demon lords, so they can get home.

There is also a slight conflict between the two protagonists as the guy thinks this is an awesome adventure, where they get to slay evil daemons and be heroes! Where as the girl wants desperately to go back to the future were she doesn't have to assault people for food.

HOW THIS WOULD EFFECT GAME PLAY
Well firstly you'd have two playable characters and two sets of powers. Like Fish20 said, Samurai are warriors and focus on melee weapons, so the girl can specialize in ranged magic. Also, since both of the characters begging the game as noobs it explaines why they don't have all the powers and skills of trained worriers.

You'd have a bonus goal to rescue the other passengers for a slightly alternate ending.

Some one mentioned a level where you have to defend a place from waves of enemies, that could be the plain crash site. Where you have to keep the artefact away from the demons once the crash site is discovered.

I think it gives a good motivation both for the players and the bad guys, and even though it's taken a bit to explain it here I don't think it would be too hard to pull off in the Ninja Gaiden cut-scene style.

But even if we don't go with it I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on the premis.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 16:33:41 -

^^ Distron, that seems really complex! ^^


How about something like this:

It's feudal Japan, and you are in the Emperor's employ as an elite Samurai warrior sworn to protect the people. One night while out riding your horse you spot a streaking fireball from the sky and moments later a thunderous boom fills the air. Thinking it could be a potential threat, you set out for the crash site...

The object was a meteor, and it's made a giant hole in the ground. Looking over the side there's no bottom as far as the eye can see and it's dark as all hell. Suddenly shrieks and screams abound from the hole, and they're headed your way! With no time to call for reinforcements you grab your trusty katana and short bow and jump into the pit, ready to take on all who stand in your way!

----

So in short, a strange meteor falls from the sky, you the samurai warrior go to check it out, the meteor crashes and splits in half at the bottom which releases all manner of demon / alien / god knows what and you have to go down into the depths to kill them all so they won't escape and threaten your village.

Edited by Del Duio

 
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27th July, 2010 at 17:15:30 -

Some enemy designs I doodled while I was in the library today:

Image
Image
Image
Image

And just for the hekuvit:

Image

 
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27th July, 2010 at 17:44:19 -

Hey guys,

I know I'm new and all, and I seldom post on the forums - if ever... hmmm - and I've recently gained alot of interest over this community project, the ideas are pouring in and the people who are contributing have a history of great projects of their own.

Anyway, I'd just like to suggest the 'mood' of the game to be discussed. So far we have a seemingly bad ass samurai stabbing demons between the eyes, so a major part of the gameplay and storyline is set by that, but what about the mood? Is it going to be humorous, serious, casual?

Because I think that this plays quite a large role in pretty much every aspect of the game design. You don't bizarre and extravagant colours for a serious game, the people who will be assigned with the task of writing the storyline and character dialogue should have the same concepts in mind, and obviously the music/sound effects designers will also have to know what kind of atmosphere their tunes should achieve.

Hope that helps you guys somehow.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 18:28:49 -

All right, if we are going to have a story, then it is extremely important that the gameplay be affected by the story and the story should be skippable. That's what I hated about Johny Look's A Man With A Monocle. The story made no effect on the gameplay. It would have been more interesting if the gameplay revolved around something like use of the magic monocle.

So if we have a grand story, the gameplay has to be affected by it. Think of Final Fantasy II (IV). The story dictates what party members you have and in the case of Rydia and Tellah what spells they know.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 18:43:22 -

Zzynck knows what's up, gotta work off of a mood. The past page still seems like it's gone nowhere. Maybe get some Samurai inspiration, really research them, maybe that will get people on a more similar page? If a game's gonna be made about Samurai's, better know what they're all about rather than just taking from media stereotypes and other games. Perhaps after some research, there will come a mood

 
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27th July, 2010 at 18:45:39 -

Could we even pull off a complex story? Is anyone confident that they can write a story that doesn't suck?

 

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27th July, 2010 at 19:09:08 -

I am confident I can write a story that doesn't suck.

Also I just thought of a great idea. A top-down shooter starring none other than TDC's own deceased mascot: Mitch. It'll capture the essence of TDC. We can also add some online multiplayer functionality. It will be awesome if we can all pull together and make a game to commemorate Mitch.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 19:20:33 -

I could probably write a story but if it wasn't funny it might be contrite, cliche' and terrible. I actually really like to write!

I also like to do the bigger cutscene pictures used at the start or end of a game. If the artist(s) responsible for the game's sprites has his / hers done first I could work off those and do up a couple big stills to overlay the story on if nobody else wants to. I mean going and doing whole sprites and animation would be a pain in the ass but I wouldn't mind drawing a few pictures that matched the main artist(s) work to help contribute that way.

Some examples in my work:

Image
Image
Image
Image



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27th July, 2010 at 19:54:09 -


Originally Posted by Del Duio
How about something like this:

It's feudal Japan, and you are in the Emperor's employ as an elite Samurai warrior sworn to protect the people. One night while out riding your horse you spot a streaking fireball from the sky and moments later a thunderous boom fills the air. Thinking it could be a potential threat, you set out for the crash site... The object was a meteor, and it's made a giant hole in the ground. Looking over the side there's no bottom as far as the eye can see and it's dark as all hell. Suddenly shrieks and screams abound from the hole, and they're headed your way! With no time to call for reinforcements you grab your trusty katana and short bow and jump into the pit, ready to take on all who stand in your way!



If we do a story, it should be something simple like this (though maybe not something so tired and used). We can show all this with action and just use text here and there if it's necessary.

All this talk about story is all well and good, but it's starting to flounder. Everyone pay attention to Jon's direction and stay focused. We'll get stuck in the story phase otherwise.

We need:
Coding Leader

 

  		
  		

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27th July, 2010 at 20:30:52 -

This could help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_from_Japan

 
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27th July, 2010 at 20:47:12 -

I agree with Del Duio and Fish20. Have him jump into a hole/portal and then you're not limited to Japan. Much better for creativity.

Mr. Lambert, I think you should take some sort of hardline approach to clamping down on the ideas. Or put people in positions where they make the final call on different elements of the game.

Also, I think the vibe of this game (the samurai part anyway) should lean towards the snes side as opposed to 8-bit.

I like the softness of snes:



 
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27th July, 2010 at 21:38:16 -

I could do the research on the samurai and other elements we think up. I do really well on my reports, and writing something quick up for TDC wouldn't require a lot of neatness and what not.

 
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27th July, 2010 at 21:38:20 -

I could do the research on the samurai and other elements we think up. I do really well on my reports, and writing something quick up for TDC wouldn't require a lot of neatness and what not.

 
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28th July, 2010 at 02:15:00 -

If you want to take the cutesy japanese look, great. However if you guys decide upon a more realistic approach this game is the one to look at. (sorry to repeat myself)



Some gameplay mechanics to take note of.

.Enemies knock you back but don't actually damage you on contact.
.There are two layers on some levels that you can (only) jump between with the double jump move.
.There are various power ups lying around levels one of which is an 'extra hit' that takes the form of a sort of hand shield and a sword you automatically use when attacking close to an enemy. You can also use it to block enemy shurikens.
.One of the power ups is a bomb which adds a little element of risk/reward to the game.

(Also note the brilliant music)

 
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28th July, 2010 at 03:30:56 -

I was thinking more in terms of snes games and their lighter color palette versus the actual style of that game. I imagine it having a more realistic graphical style like shinobi.

 
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28th July, 2010 at 06:13:13 -


Originally Posted by JustinC
Mr. Lambert, I think you should take some sort of hardline approach to clamping down on the ideas. Or put people in positions where they make the final call on different elements of the game.

As I said earlier in the thread, my plan was and is to select a Coding Leader, Design Leader, Graphics Leader, Music Leader, and Sound Leader, and we six people will begin to make these "hardline" decisions. As of now, I am still looking for someone to head up coding for the game, as not a single person has volunteered, and the other four leaders are to be searched for oce we as a community decide what the mood and theme of the game are (so that graphics people will be able to draw, music people able to compose, sous people able to record, and design people able to coordinate it all to the story and make crucial design decisions.

If you want me to make some hard decisions now, I could say that the game will be about a horde of demons that have escaped the underworld through a portal from the underworld or some such place, and you play as a samurai who must defeat the demons and seal the portal to save the world. During your quest, you learn that the demon world is beginning to merge with your world, increasing the urgency in closing the portal.

The game's mood would be serious and somewhat dark, as the world is potentially ending, and this would be reflected by somewhat realistic graphics using darker colors and details. The music would be somewhat similar to what you hear in fighting games like Soul Calibur.

You all, if you were fine with that, could then talk about how the portal opens or how the worlds merge together, what the demons look and act like, how you will close the portal, and things like that. If we can decide on this, I'll be able to establish Design, Graphics, Music, and Sound Leaders.

 
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28th July, 2010 at 11:36:56 -

Then the plot could revolve around either a demon, or a human (or both) who opens the portals themselves. He/she is the one responsible for the portals, and perhaps at the end of each level, the character will either fight this demon-master himself, who will improve as the game progresses, or, he will leave one of his strongest minions to fight you, which will probably mean more variety of bosses, but more time to make up the concept, graphics, etc.

Just a quick idea, how about the game starts with a portal being opened near the protagonist, who is taken by the portal, and while he is taken through every other portal that has been opened, he realises he must return to this original portal, where the demons will eventually enter, where he then finally defeats the demon lord thus saving his country/village/world/whatever?

 
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28th July, 2010 at 14:00:03 -

Serious or no, I think the entire story could / should be summed up on a single screen in a single paragraph.

We don't need no stinkin' novel!

Also looks like the hardest part of this project is getting the coder(s) so I'd try to secure them first.

 
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28th July, 2010 at 15:28:40 -


Originally Posted by Del Duio
Serious or no, I think the entire story could / should be summed up on a single screen in a single paragraph.

We don't need no stinkin' novel!



Well, I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Ninja Gaden cut-scenes. In any given game they only amounts to a page or two of dialogue. The animation is vary basic, mostly stills that are moved around. I don't think that's asking too much.

I don't know, here is a link to all the cut-scenes spliced together again, Dose anyone think I'm underestimating how difficult cut-scenes of this style will be to do? I mean, we don't have to do as many as in that game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRLqwsXebHQ

 
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28th July, 2010 at 19:27:56 -

I like the way the plot is going. I'm just going to throw in a few links to a series of Gamasutra articles that might be useful.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4326/action_adventure_level_design_.php
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4413/action_adventure_level_design_.php
and
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/5441/action_adventure_level_design_.php

 
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28th July, 2010 at 19:52:22 -

Really, only a vague story is important right now. I'd say that the main thematic elements are there, the Samurai hero, the Demon villains and minions, and the world which is being slowly merged with the Demon realm. The stage right now is Design - how will the game play, what will make it fun, what challenges are possible, how can such challenges rise in difficulty, what controls or abilities are there to master, how will boss scenes pan out? All questions that need to be answered.

This is still wildly up in the air, although now Jon has set a mood for it (I'm trusting his posts, since they are realistic, and he was basically voted to lead anyway), that narrows it down somewhat. Looks like time for a Design Leader to step in. I'd gladly offer, but my available time is iffy, and I'm prone to disappearing for days.

At least start discussing it more, and leave story to a different thread, or to writers to figure out in their own time. Has anyone started in chats about this yet? So far all I've seen is this thread, and it's going very slowly.

 
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28th July, 2010 at 23:52:23 -


Originally Posted by Jon Lambert

Originally Posted by JustinC
Mr. Lambert, I think you should take some sort of hardline approach to clamping down on the ideas. Or put people in positions where they make the final call on different elements of the game.

As I said earlier in the thread, my plan was and is to select a Coding Leader, Design Leader, Graphics Leader, Music Leader, and Sound Leader, and we six people will begin to make these "hardline" decisions. As of now, I am still looking for someone to head up coding for the game, as not a single person has volunteered, and the other four leaders are to be searched for once we as a community decide what the mood and theme of the game are (so that graphics people will be able to draw, music people able to compose, sous people able to record, and design people able to coordinate it all to the story and make crucial design decisions.

If you want me to make some hard decisions now, I could say that the game will be about a horde of demons that have escaped the underworld through a portal from the underworld or some such place, and you play as a samurai who must defeat the demons and seal the portal to save the world. During your quest, you learn that the demon world is beginning to merge with your world, increasing the urgency in closing the portal.

The game's mood would be serious and somewhat dark, as the world is potentially ending, and this would be reflected by somewhat realistic graphics using darker colors and details. The music would be somewhat similar to what you hear in fighting games like Soul Calibur.

You all, if you were fine with that, could then talk about how the portal opens or how the worlds merge together, what the demons look and act like, how you will close the portal, and things like that. If we can decide on this, I'll be able to establish Design, Graphics, Music, and Sound Leaders.



On your idea: I would say that would be a good decision. Let's go with that as ideas keep getting thrown forward yet nobody's building on previous ideas much.

 
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28th July, 2010 at 23:59:51 -


Originally Posted by Disthron

Originally Posted by Del Duio
Serious or no, I think the entire story could / should be summed up on a single screen in a single paragraph.

We don't need no stinkin' novel!



Well, I'm thinking of something along the lines of the Ninja Gaden cut-scenes. In any given game they only amounts to a page or two of dialogue. The animation is vary basic, mostly stills that are moved around. I don't think that's asking too much.

I don't know, here is a link to all the cut-scenes spliced together again, Dose anyone think I'm underestimating how difficult cut-scenes of this style will be to do? I mean, we don't have to do as many as in that game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRLqwsXebHQ

I think the nes cutscene style would be a good one to use. Although I'm still not completely sold on the idea of it looking like an 8-bit game, I still prefer 16-bit since the mood has been established as "somewhat dark". I keep thinking about snes games like demons crest.

Image

Here's a genesis cut scene in the ninja gaiden cutscene style:



 
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29th July, 2010 at 01:08:31 -

i don't want to devote TOO much time to this thing because i have my own stuff to do.. so I wouldn't put my hand up as a coding leader, but I probably would have no problem whipping up a good ninja style platform movement so this thing can get off to a good start

here's an example of a movement i made a while back.

http://www.mediafire.com/?nmmmmzyfkw0

## Basic Controls ##

Run - Left/Right Arrow Keys
Crouch - Hold Down Arrow Key
Jump - Z
Shoot - X
Charge up Blaster - Press + Hold X

## Special Moves ##

Double Jump - Z While Jumping in Air
Wall Slide - Hold Arrow Key Towards Wall
Wall Jump - Press Z While Wall Sliding
Morph Ball Mode (kinda sorta) - Double Tap Down Arrow Key
Exit Morph Ball Mode - Up Arrow Key

 
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29th July, 2010 at 02:10:43 -

I won't mind being coding leader, but I think the rest of you might. I'm not terribly good at it and produce mostly hacky code.
I'll do it if no one else does, but if there are complaints then the complainers should step up and be the leader.

Jon, once again I like your story idea and we should just run with that.

But really, no one needs to get caught up with the story right now. We have the concept and theme and setting and that should be enough for now.

 
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30th July, 2010 at 00:33:27 -

Update:

Currently Open Positions:

Coding Leader
Responsibilities include coordinating programming efforts for the game. This will require the Coding Leader to have knowledge of platform engines, menus, HUDs, and other such things as required for the game. The Coding Leader will not necessarily have to code everything, but will have to code some things, and decide what other members will code what. The Coding Leader will also have to lead and moderate discussion on what features are to be coded and how to code them.

Current list of volunteers: Smirnoff (need .mfa or .exe example of coding)

Design Leader
Responsibilities include leading discussion of different design elements and making decisions on critical design elements and story elements. The Design Leader will also be required to coordinate efforts in graphics, sound, and music, so that they all fit the game style and story theme and mood. To be eligible for this position, you must prove that you can be a good leader (perhaps in a paragraph citing examples if possible) as well as take the Story So Far that I have provided and flesh out a design for the game. Designs would constitute musical and graphical styles (with examples), sound effect examples as well as when they would play and how they would sound, level design examples, and general game structure.

Current list of volunteers: None

Story so far:

A portal to the underworld has been created, allowing a slew of demons to escape and take over the living world. As a lone samurai, you have put it upon yourself to defeat the demons and close the portal. However, the portal poses another threat as well, for the two worlds are merging together, and should the portal remain open, the living world will meet its end.

Dark game with a serious tone. The graphics will lean toward realism, using darker colors and details to reflect the story. Music will be similar to that in Soul Calibur.

Edited by an Administrator

 
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30th July, 2010 at 01:42:53 -

I'll volunteer to be design leader if no one else wants to. I don't think I'll have a lot of time to devote, and would like someone who has more time to volunteer. Though I would really like to be a designer.

What needs to be presented so that I am applicable to be design leader.

 
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30th July, 2010 at 02:56:55 -

Bah, I'd much rather be a design lead than the coding lead. I'm really not that great at it. I've never made a level editor. I'm just surprised that no one has stepped up for that position.

I do have a lot of time to spare, though. I can be fully devoted to this project. I guess I'll send you the mfa I have. It's not pretty, though. That's not to say I don't know how to keep things organized. Still, I'd like to think I'm more of a designer than a coder.

 
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31st July, 2010 at 03:42:14 -

To be a Design Leader, you must give proof of your ability to lead [discussions] and make crucial [design] decisions. You must also take the Story So Far that I have provided and flesh out a design for it. This would constitute examples of graphical style, musical style, sound effects (when they would be played, how they would sound), level design examples, game structure, and other things. If you can both prove yourself to potentially be a capable leader and give a good design for the game, you may have the position.

I have updated my previous post to reflect this.

 
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31st July, 2010 at 04:24:52 -

Nah I don't think I have enough time for a full-time position such as that. But I'd gladly be the right hand man of the design leader when I can.

 
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31st July, 2010 at 05:57:30 -

Here is the expanded version of the story Jon has provided:

In the Begining

In the land of Napaj, a terrible oni has open the demons gate in the Northeastern temple (northeast is an unlucky direction in Japan, and it is sometimes called the Demon's gate). The gate allows demons passage into the living world.
For many months, the creatures from hell have transfered into the Napaj using through the demon's gate, taking over entire cities and killing many innocent lives. If the demon's gate isn't closed, all of the living souls will be sent to hell and then eventually end up back in Napaj, merging the underworld with the living world.

It is night. A samurai is woken up by a voice. The voice is of a Shingami (japanese death god). The shingami tells the samurai of the demon situation. It says that there must be a balance between the dead and the living or the world will be destroyed. The shingami then tells the samurai that he must go through the demon's gate and
close it from the inside. The shingami creates a sword out of thin air. It tells the samurai that this sword is the only sword that will destroy a demon's soul completely. The shingami says, "you know what you must do." Then the shingami disappears. The samurai gets out of bed and puts on his armor. After mounting his horse, he rides of
to the northeast, ready to close the demon's gate, or die trying.

Im not a writer btw so ignore the use of lots of "the". I just wanted to get to the point.

Since the game is about demons and the dead, then it should also be a bit scary.


Edit: I could be the design leader, but I don't think I'm a very good leader.


Edited by Fish20

 
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31st July, 2010 at 18:49:26 -

In the land of Napaj

Oh I see what you did there

That's straight outta the Wizardry handbook: Werdna the wizard and Trebor and all that. Everquest's city of Qeynos had that too (Sony EQ).

You stated it, but yeah too many "the"s. It just seems like the above story is a literal translation or something, cut out half the sentences or rearrange stuff and it should read a lot better:

--

In the Begining

In the land of Napaj a terrible oni has opened the Northeastern temple demon's gate, allowing them passage into the living world.

For many months the creatures from hell have poured into Napaj using this gate, taking over entire cities and killing many innocent lives. If the demon's gate isn't closed all of the living souls will be sent to hell, merging the underworld with the living world!

One night a samurai is woken up by an evil voice. Shingami, Japanese death god, tells him of the demon situation: There must be a balance between the dead and the living or the world will be destroyed. The only solution is for the samurai to go through the demon's gate and close it from the inside.

Shingami creates a sword out of thin air, all the while telling the samurai that this is the only way to destroy a demon's soul completely. Looking at the samurai he fades away saying, "You know what you must do..."

Rising from his bed he pulls on his armor and sheathes the mysterious weapon. After mounting his horse he rides of to the northeast, still confused from the night's events. You are this samurai, ready to close the demon's gate forever.

Or die trying.


Edited by Del Duio

 
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31st July, 2010 at 20:29:32 -

I will make no direct referrences to Japan or any real world locations. I think it's best we keep details ambiguous.

Long ago in the Eastern Kingdoms, the elders banished the last of the demons to the underworld.
Years later the demons were able to open a portal back to the surface world.
If the portal were to remain open, the underworld would merge with the surface world.
With the kingdoms ruined and all defenses lost, a lone warrior stands against the demons and the impending merger of the two worlds.


I wouldn't lean toward any particular style until I've seen some example work. Fluid animation is more important than strict realism.
I would say the music should take asian cues with Japanese being the primary influence. Again, I'd have to hear some example of what people are capable of.
I want to accommodate peoples' skills and not plan for anything we do not have the means to produce.

Game structure would follow what we've discussed with the wario land 2 structure.
However, I will not do any further research on that kind of structure as I'd like to put my own spin on it.

I imagine it as such:

After the short and sweet(and skippable) intro, the we immediately get into level one. After completion, we see the world map for the first time.
The player can only see where they have been and the level they are about to enter.
If the level they are about to enter is obviously going to have a fork, the world map will reflect the upcoming decision.
However, sometimes story driven events will change the outcome of the level as well as where the player will end up.
For example, the player may have to rescue some villagers. The player can choose to rescue them or ignore them and move on.
Moving on will just need to the next obvious place on the world map.m Rescueing the villagers may lead to a new location such as a demon den the villagers saw.

Each level can be designed almost independently from each other except where a story arc comes into play. There, a designer could design a series of levels relating to each other.
We may have an idea of what the levels will be, but ultimately the designers should have the freedom to do what they want if the levels are fun and well made.
We can build the world map around the ideas given.

Bosses will occur at the end of story arcs. By story arcs, I just mean a small series of levels that follow their own little plot. There will be several small story arcs inside the main arc of the game. Different arcs could potentially lead to different endings. Endings could happen at different points in the game. Perhaps one arc could lead to failing to defeat the demons. Another could be having to close the portal from the underworld instead of the surface world.

I will post my ideas for weapons and other things shortly.




 
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1st August, 2010 at 00:41:41 -

I do think that is a well thought out idea of the gameplay Smirnoff, maybe a few tweaks here and there.

Here's my base story to contribute:
-----------

During the year of 1374 in the land of Nyrosrei (N-I-Rohss-R-I) the Priests of Belan sealed away the demons that were materializing out of the evil thoughts of the people, the Priests sent them to Edokiva, a barren land in the center of the universe where they were to live out their lives in eternal suffering. Through many generations the demons planned their revenge and started practicing dark magic. At the start of the year 1629 they put their plan into action, summoning portals and releasing hordes of blindingly deformed creatures to wreak havoc upon the land of Nyrosrei.

The demons did not know however that the Priests were training a skilled samurai to defend Nyrosrei when the demons inevitably returned. This warrior of the people is named Rael. It is up to him to defend Nyrosrei and to kill every last one of the demons.

-----------

Short and sweet, and leaves openings for plot twists and places for our artists to create dark and evil looking demons.

 
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1st August, 2010 at 01:12:35 -

Gameplay dynamic idea:

What if instead of typical sword slices, it took on sort of a dig dug/ghostbusters feel. Your sword would be used to absorb the demons. You'd send out a beam or steam trail or something and the sword would take in the demons' energy represented by them shrinking. If you release the trail the demon would slowly return to original size. So like dig dug, you'd have to hang on to one enemy and drain it fully to eliminate it. You could have a basic sword slash that would just knock enemies back to give you some time to drain another enemy.

 
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3rd August, 2010 at 06:28:51 -

Make Jon Lambert leader, take his idea and make it. Kgo.

 
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3rd August, 2010 at 07:08:38 -

Andy stole my post. I will make mine long-winded in an effort to make it look like my redundant post is worth posting.

I declare Jon Lambert the TDC Community Project leader! He is now king of the game's design and all decisions.

Let's get the making ball rolling as fast as the thinking ball! We need to decide where and how we're going to communicate and share content so we can get to work. Dropbox? Forum? Skype? Wiki? Up to you, Jon. Pick one and we'll set it up.

Since nobody wants to be coding leader (except perhaps Smirnoff, who'd rather be a designer), let's toss out the title, at least for now. I'll organize the coders until someone else steps in. Who all wants to code, but not be coding leader?

Do we have musicians? Who all can do art? Roster time. We need names coupled with skills. DC Mail Jon!

 

  		
  		

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3rd August, 2010 at 19:29:52 -

Taking charge FTW!

 
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5th August, 2010 at 11:13:42 -

Yeah, I don't mind coding so much but I think I'd need direction. Note that I no experience with exterior level editors.

So let's get started with dropbox and skype. Just settle on those. Worry about better solutions later. Let's do it. Now.

Gameplay ideas again:

He is a warrior. Naturally, he'd have a sword. I do want to get into combos and the like. I want to keep controls simple. I do want skill to play a major part in gameplay.
Make jumping matter. Make blocking matter. Make ducking matter.
You'll have to jump. You'll have to block and duck. You'll have to do it with expert timing. At least further down the line.
Combat won't be as easy and hitting a key over and over again until something dies. And you won't be able to avoid everything.
I'm not saying every enemy should be so difficult. You'll get into the groove of the enemy patterns and be able to read them for a quick fight.
But I want it to be a challenge when you're surrounded. But not that kind of overwhelming challenge where there's too much stuff flying around. Maybe throw in some evasive dives.
I do believe it's too late for me to be awake so I hope my thoughts were conveyed in a way that is not difficult to understand.
More on that tomorrow.

 
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5th August, 2010 at 13:37:41 -

Okay, so with getbox there are two options. We can all sign up for an account and share one folder, or I can create a TDC account and trust every project member with the password.

If we're going with skype, everyone needs to get an account and add me. My skype name is the same as my TDC name.

 

  		
  		

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5th August, 2010 at 15:48:13 -

Smirnoff is doing a very good job of developing the game's design and shows leadership ability, so, at least for now, he will be the game's Design Leader.

My Skype name is PuzzleShot. For dropbox I think we can all share the same account. I'll make a new project page here on TDC for organizational purposes.

I like Smirnoff's idea of requiring skill in the fighting. Earlier enemies could just require a series of slashes but it'd be cool if other enemies required you to block certain attacks, duck to dodge others, and then wait for an opening. To compound upon this, we could put in a lock-on system where the player always faces the enemy (like in a fighting game) at least for bosses, with which we could add an extra level of depth and flair.

We still need coders and graphics and music and sound effects. As far as coding goes, I might be able to code the platform engine but I have no experience with level editors. We need to attract the people who can do the wok innthose fields, since right now all anyone has done is discuss story. I'll make another post about requirements and responsibilities for the four remaining positions later.

 
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5th August, 2010 at 15:57:55 -

Assault Andy and I talked about doing sound effects, but if I'm being coding leader for now I might not be able to.

Someone else who's a better coder take the post!

 

  		
  		

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5th August, 2010 at 20:43:31 -

I was the coder for the original TDC Community Project and I think I can code this one. Whipping up a platform engine with the PMO object and adding a bit of wall jumping or some or athletic skill wouldn't be too much of a problem.

Though for things like a level editor and an inventory I wouldn't be too much of a help because I'm still learning those.

Though I can organize a save file with the Global Store X (I can do INI as well) as long as we can agree on what needs to be saved before I start building it.

 
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6th August, 2010 at 04:24:30 -

Looks like we don't have the knowledge and skillset for a level editor. I wouldn't mind sending around mfa files for the levels but standards need to be discussed and extra stress may be put on the coders because of it.

Wall jumping is a good idea. The hero should be very agile and having that along with ledge grabbing, evasive diving, and some kind of swinging would be great.

I am on skype now. Add matt.smirnoff.



 
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Matthew Wiese

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6th August, 2010 at 05:35:38 -

Very funny how everyone has the name Matt, eh?

Add me, (imagine.create) though I won't be able to have voice chat until I get home. Can't Skype do text chat kinda like IM? I probably won't be willing to talk all the time.

How is that wiki thing going?

 
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7th August, 2010 at 00:24:19 -

Positions and Jobs

Coding
Coding Leader
Responsibilities include coordinating programming efforts for the game. This will require the Coding Leader to have knowledge of platform engines, menus, HUDs, and other such things as required for the game. The Coding Leader will not necessarily have to code everything, but will have to code some things, and decide what other members will code what. The Coding Leader will also have to lead and moderate discussion on what features are to be coded and how to code them.
Coders
Responsibilities include coding and collaborating on the various aspects of the game, include the player engine, enemies, AI, presentational elements, etc. Should one be able to code a level editor, this should be done as well.

Design
Design Leader: Smirnoff (Skype name: matt.smirnoff)
Responsibilities include leading discussion of different design elements and making decisions on critical design elements and story elements. The Design Leader will also be required to coordinate efforts in graphics, sound, and music, so that they all fit the game style and story theme and mood.
Designers
Work closely with the Design Leader in making design decisions and discussing design elements, including graphical and musical styles, appropriate sound effects, etc.

Graphics
Graphics Leader
Will be selected based on ability to create graphics that match the game design. Once said graphics are created, the Graphics Leader will create a style guide, on which all graphics are to be based, and which others will be able to use to contribute graphics to the project. The Graphics Leader will critique WIP graphics as well as work on his or her own graphics for the project. The Graphics Leader will approve graphics made by other project members.
Artists
Will draw graphics based on the style established by the Graphics Leader, to be critiqued and possibly accepted by the Graphics Leader. May also provide concept art for game elements.

Music
Music Leader
To be selected based on ability to compose quality pieces. Will make decisions on musical style including providing instruments to be used by other composers, critiquing composer pieces, approving composer pieces, and composing pieces his/herself.
Composers
Compose pieces of music for the game based on the style established by the Music Leader. Will have pieces critiqued and possibly accepted by the Music Leader.

Sound
Sound Leader
Organizes efforts in collecting and making sound effects for the game. May make sound effects his/herself, and will approve sound effects contributed by other project members.
Sound Effects Persons
Will create or otherwise obtain sound effects that are appropriate for and legal to use in the project. Will have contributions approved by Sound Leader.

There is now a project page as well. http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=1938 Whoever wants to do live discussion concerning the game should give their Skype name to me or OldManClayton. If you don't have one, you'll need one.

 
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7th August, 2010 at 00:52:48 -

I don't think I have the skill to be the Coding Leader, but I'll volunteer to work on the player movement engine, but I'll also like to work as a designer.

 
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7th August, 2010 at 00:56:56 -

If I should ever become a Sound Effects man, and should others show enough dedication to the project that it is reasonable to assume it will be finished, I might consider investing in some credits for the project at http://soundsnap.com if we should need them.

Also, whoever is in charge of keeping a concise design document to keep new project members from feeling overwhelmed (Jon?) should start collaborating with Smirnoff.

Matt (Wiese), you volunteered to do some research into Samurai culture, customs, equipment, armor, etc, right? I think you have a direction to move in.

I'm looking at wiki solutions now.

 

  		
  		

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7th August, 2010 at 01:14:48 -

Yup I'll get to that, got side tracked

 
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7th August, 2010 at 22:14:52 -

Allow me to translate these scentences:

"If the portal remains open for too long, the worlds will begin to merge, and soon enough, the kingdom will be lost to the demons. Your goal now is to defeat the demons that are attacking and close the portal. "

Into:

"If the oblivion gates remains open for too long, the worlds will begin to merge, and soon enough, Cyrodiil will be lost to the Daedra. Your goal is to defeat the Daedra that are attacking and close shut the jaws of Oblivion"

Any resemblance, no?

 
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7th August, 2010 at 22:17:04 -


Originally Posted by Coca-Cola Man
Allow me to translate these scentences:

"If the portal remains open for too long, the worlds will begin to merge, and soon enough, the kingdom will be lost to the demons. Your goal now is to defeat the demons that are attacking and close the portal. "

Into:

"If the oblivion gates remains open for too long, the worlds will begin to merge, and soon enough, Cyrodiil will be lost to the Daedra. Your goal is to defeat the Daedra that are attacking and close shut the jaws of Oblivion"

Any resemblance, no?

I don't know, I don't play much more than Mario or Sonic or Link or those other non-games, as my brother tells me.

 
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7th August, 2010 at 22:24:15 -

"I play Link"
Son, I am dissappointed.

(I've had my share of nintendo and sega titles too, and I even have a NES, a SNES, a N64, a Gamecube and a Wii)

EDIT: You missed the best offline wRPG ever if you haven't played Oblivion

Edited by Knockturnal

 
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7th August, 2010 at 22:36:52 -


Originally Posted by Coca-Cola Man
"I play Link"
Son, I am dissappointed.

I'm not going to say that I play Zelda just because I've never played as Zelda in those games. Latest I played was Link's Awakening DX twice.

Do you have a better idea for a story?

 
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7th August, 2010 at 22:58:18 -

Sorry if I sounded like an a**hole/besserwisser, I was merely pointing out the similarities.
I think the story is pretty solid, and even if the core plot is similiar, the game doesn't have to be.
(Like samurais fighting evil sounds like Samurai Jack, but that doesn't mean it is similiar)

 
Ride the wave!

Matthew Wiese

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8th August, 2010 at 03:48:08 -

Can't believe I didn't see the resemblance, and I'm a die-hard Oblivion fan. Shame on me.

 
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Watermelon876



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8th August, 2010 at 06:19:44 -

The story actually reminds me of season 2 of digimon. Guess I'm just crazy...

 
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9th August, 2010 at 00:05:29 -

if you watched a season of digimon then yes.. you are crazy.

 
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Jon C-B

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9th August, 2010 at 04:04:37 -

Hey. i greatly enjoyed that show in my youth

 
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OMC

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9th August, 2010 at 04:34:15 -

Hey, only I can pretend like I'm old.

Topic's veering off course a bit, isn't it?

Look at zees: http://theapp.jollycrouton.com/

A wiki was requested, and a wiki was created. We're going to start on some prototypage so we can have something to entice artists to join the cause.


Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

AndyUK

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10th August, 2010 at 03:26:26 -


Originally Posted by Jon C-B
Hey. i greatly enjoyed that show in my youth



Youth? a few years ago you were a feotus.

 
.

alastair john jack

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10th August, 2010 at 12:37:11 -

OMC, it requires a login to view?

 
lol

OMC

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10th August, 2010 at 13:31:18 -

Yep, to prevent spam and prying eyes. I can change that if needed.

There's nothing up yet anyway. I have a feeling the google doc will be more popular.

 

  		
  		

Jon C-B

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10th August, 2010 at 14:26:24 -


Originally Posted by AndyUK

Originally Posted by Jon C-B
Hey. i greatly enjoyed that show in my youth



Youth? a few years ago you were a feotus.


Haha yea... but i mean when i was still in london.

 
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OMC

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KlikCast Musician! Guy with a HatSomewhat CrazyARGH SignLikes TDCHas Donated, Thank You!Retired Admin
11th August, 2010 at 03:51:07 -

Okay, this might be useless, but since there are a lot fewer interested now than there were in the first survey, I did it anyway.

Small second survey: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/SG2BSR5

My vote? We stop looking for "leaders" for each section and just have Jon do the ideas, decisions, and organization. It's less nebulous and new members can just jump right in with what they can do!

We need: ARTISTS and CODERS.

I'm settling on sound effects man. Jon, stop me if I try to direct any more.

 

  		
  		

OMC

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15th August, 2010 at 02:28:55 -

In case some of you haven't been visiting the project page (tsk tsk tsk), have a look at this concept art we cooked up:

Image

Still need people to jump on board! (Particularly sprite artists, and maybe a couple more coders)

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		

Xhunterko



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15th August, 2010 at 07:33:09 -

I do not know where to post this, so here goes.

I am willing to help with story writing and sound collection. Do I need to post on the project page as well?

 
All platforming problems can be mostly solved here:

http://www.clickteam.com/mbfiles2/277308-engine.zip
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/psywakd/platform.gam
www.zephni.com

These are very excellent examples by other people and are very informative.
Image

I work at the speed of "maybe".

Coming Soon: Diary Of An Indie Developer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaF6H9MrgH8

Twitter:
http://twitter.com/xhunterko

OMC

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15th August, 2010 at 14:11:43 -

We're not really running short on people to help with the story, but we'd still love to have you on board! Sound collection won't happen for a while, so we'll get to that later.

If you have a skype, add me as a contact. (oldmanclayton)

 

  		
  		

MitchHM



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16th August, 2010 at 08:56:28 -

I'll be a composer, if .mp3 files are ok.

 
n/a

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16th August, 2010 at 14:12:42 -

That would be great! Can we hear some samples?

 

  		
  		

Del Duio

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16th August, 2010 at 16:21:17 -

Holy crap just get the guy who drew that samurai picture to do your art for you, that's really good!

 
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DXF Games, coming next: Hasslevania 2- This Space for Rent!

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16th August, 2010 at 16:35:08 -

Ha, I wish! A hand-drawn game would be fantastic. Unfortunately, I can never get my sister to draw more than one piece in a long while.

 

  		
  		

Watermelon876



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16th August, 2010 at 19:39:55 -

I am not interested in where this is going. I'm sorry.

 
Awesomeness is Watermelon.
*/l、
゙(゚、 。 7
l、゙ ~ヽ
じしf_, )ノ
This is Koji. Copy and paste Koji to your sig so he can acheive world domination.

Del Duio

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17th August, 2010 at 16:55:43 -


Originally Posted by OldManClayton
Ha, I wish! A hand-drawn game would be fantastic. Unfortunately, I can never get my sister to draw more than one piece in a long while.



*teleports back to 1950*

Wow a GIRL drew that!

Naw just kidding, but that's great man!

 
--

"Del Duio has received 0 trophies. Click here to see them all."

"To be a true ninja you must first pick the most stealthy of our assorted combat suits. Might I suggest the bright neon orange?"

DXF Games, coming next: Hasslevania 2- This Space for Rent!

Deathbringer



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19th August, 2010 at 19:32:00 -

I was thinking of making a samurai game myself for a few days, just because i have a real blood-lust at the moment and fancied having a game with lots of swords.

Anyway the game in my mind's eye had ukyo-e looking backgrounds to it. Which might be an idea somebody fancies running with.

 
A signature

aphant



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8th September, 2010 at 03:28:54 -

So... how's this coming along?

 

OMC

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8th September, 2010 at 03:40:20 -

It's moving! If I list who all's doing what, I know I'll miss someone very important, and I don't want to do that.

Prototype engine(s) is(are) in the works, and we have art and design people working. Still some holes, but it's moving!

Even though school has started back up for some of us.

 

  		
  		

OMC

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21st September, 2010 at 11:55:53 -

Anyone wanting to join the project can add me on skype (same username) and join the group discussion.

We have a wiki set up to store all of the assets.

 

  		
  		

Strife

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21st September, 2010 at 12:03:32 -

lucyroos copypasted what I said earlier in the thread. But it's certainly true.

Anyway, it might be useful to provide a link to the wiki on the project's front page.

 

OMC

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KlikCast Musician! Guy with a HatSomewhat CrazyARGH SignLikes TDCHas Donated, Thank You!Retired Admin
21st September, 2010 at 12:38:47 -

Well, we haven't discussed whether it will remain accessible only to project members. I think it should at least until we're farther along.

 

  		
  		

Strife

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22nd September, 2010 at 14:27:25 -

Groovy.

On a different note, I think it might be time for a new poll, as we've long since decided on Jon as the project leader. Ironically enough, OMC's leading in the poll.

 

3kliksphilip

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25th September, 2010 at 08:27:12 -

2 months in and what does the community have to show for it? Somebody needs to pull a crunch time, make some sort of prototype game with lots of potential, and get everybody interested in the project again.

If I had my way, I would make this project a super complicated game (I don't care about the genre) with a dedicated level editor, where all levels are saved as arrays. This would make it much easier and faster when it comes to sending around finished and prototype levels, and would make it easy for programmers to work on the game at the same time as everybody else, with out having to completely redo the code on every single level individually, whenever an update to the engine is made. As new graphics are made they can be easily integrated with later versions of the level editor. Since everybody would be able to make levels for the game, it would involve the community more and the final quality of the levels would be better.

What ever you all decide to do, however, you just need to get on and do it. It doesn't look like much has been done since the project was started.

 
Don't aim for perfection- you'll miss the deadline

'~Tom~ says (16:41):
well why does the custom controls for the keyboard palyer even affect the menu controls at all whats thep oint jsutm ake it so for the keyboard palyer on the menu screens everything is always up down left right enter regardless of the controls they set'

-Mr Tom, 2010

OMC

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KlikCast Musician! Guy with a HatSomewhat CrazyARGH SignLikes TDCHas Donated, Thank You!Retired Admin
25th September, 2010 at 15:04:00 -

The prototype engine is working. We have no/few artists.

So also do we have a level editor in progress, and the plan to do just what you said.

A few of us are still really enthusiastic about it. We're just doing what we can with the time and skills we have.

 

  		
  		

Jon Lambert

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25th September, 2010 at 15:32:09 -

Well, having been working in the background, talking in Skype and stuff, we've managed to get some stuff done. Just, none of it seemed particularly announcement-worthy just yet. I made an engine. Never planned on doing it but I ended up making the engine for the game. A demo executable can be found here: http://gumman.desertstorms.net/demo.zip

In other news, we had some concept arts done by Noah Summers (TDC Name Blendroid):
Image
That is the gate that the demons rise from.

Image
That is a concept for a demon enemy.

We also have a wiki but you would need to have an account to use it. http://theapp.jollycrouton.com/

 
Sandwich Time!Whoo!

JoyCheck & KeyCheck Widgets
For easy implementation of customizable joystick and keyboard controls.
http://www.create-games.com/download.asp?id=8364

OMC

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KlikCast Musician! Guy with a HatSomewhat CrazyARGH SignLikes TDCHas Donated, Thank You!Retired Admin
27th September, 2010 at 03:30:42 -

Calling all sprite artists!

That's what we need most.

We also need current team members to remember to turn on skype.

 

  		
  		

OMC

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KlikCast Musician! Guy with a HatSomewhat CrazyARGH SignLikes TDCHas Donated, Thank You!Retired Admin
28th September, 2010 at 11:52:52 -


Originally Posted by lucyisssilo
I think I confused this with an application form to enter the project. O.o



Love is like a stampeading herd of rinorarus. short sighted and strong



If there's a person behind this account, they'd better stop just copying other members' messages or they'll be seen as a bot and banned. ;P

 

  		
  		

Strife

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28th September, 2010 at 16:43:36 -

Yeah, I kinda noticed the copypasting too.

Buuut as far as spriting goes, I -might- be able to pitch in at some future point, but I'll have to wait and see how busy I'll be in the coming month. In any case, I'm still keeping an eye on this project.

 

OMC

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KlikCast Musician! Guy with a HatSomewhat CrazyARGH SignLikes TDCHas Donated, Thank You!Retired Admin
28th September, 2010 at 18:20:14 -

We would love to have your help if you can manage! Don't fret too much about it though.

 

  		
  		

OMC

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KlikCast Musician! Guy with a HatSomewhat CrazyARGH SignLikes TDCHas Donated, Thank You!Retired Admin
8th October, 2010 at 05:31:33 -

We should probably start a new thread soon.

If you don't visit the project page:
Image

Still in need of members!

 

  		
  		

Marko

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10th October, 2010 at 03:21:02 -

I've not visited this thread for a while and so may have missed it - but where is the Projects page, OMC?

 
Image

Subliminal Dreams. . ., daily gaming news and the home of Mooneyman Studios!
www.mooneyman-studios.webs.com

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10th October, 2010 at 03:52:59 -

http://create-games.com/project.asp?view=main&id=1938
 
 

			
  	    

 

  		
  		

Marko

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10th October, 2010 at 04:50:40 -

Cheers OMC.... Oh my, that looks eff-ing plush! I honestly think you could sell this game and gain tons of revenue on that screenie alone

 
Image

Subliminal Dreams. . ., daily gaming news and the home of Mooneyman Studios!
www.mooneyman-studios.webs.com

MGEnterprise



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1st November, 2010 at 13:28:18 -

hey everyone hows this project going, ill be willing to give helping hands to this project, like designing the site for the game or similar, thank you..
MG

 
Download World Football QUIZ Demo

http://mgenterprise.comyr.com/QuizDemo2.zip

Not an installer lol..
www.mgenterprise.co.uk
   

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