I'm trying to start a small business developing 16bit style games and I need to do some research for my business plan. So I've put together this short questionnaire to find out what people are looking for. For your response simply copy the survey text below and delete the answers you don't wont.
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Yes / No
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
Yes / No
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Old Graphics / New Graphics
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
Old Graphics / Warts and All
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
$10 / $15 / $20
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
Well that's basically it. Pleas use the answers provided for the first 5 questions. You can use the last question to add any further comments you would like to make. My games will start out on PC and I may move on to making iphone and XBox Live Arcaid games later on.
Thanks for all your help
~Disthron
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Yes
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
Yes
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Old Graphics OR New Graphics. doesnt matter, as long as its good.
Retro Studios is proof of modern retro games. Metroid Primes is one of my all time favorite games. Retro-remakes are awesome but i still love a good old retro classic game.
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
most of those aspects are aspects of BAD retro games. there are not very many true classics that i would find very frustrating now days. if they stand the test of time then they are truly retro classics. i would also like to mention shadow complex by chair entertainment. takes the classic metroidvania style game and puts modern day graphics and gameplay in it. while not having played it its highly recommended, and looks fantastic fun.
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
5$ or under is usually good price for a bite sized retro game nowadays. unless the effort shows and the content is there to back up a 10$ 15$ or 20$ price tag, youre probably going to do terribly in sales. you'll probably have a lot of pains in marketing and the likes as well if you want to get your game out there at those prices as well. word of mouth only goes so far.
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
i love a good sidescrolling platformer or rpg.
good luck with this btw. there arent many games made with clickteam products id pay for. the ones i WOULD pay for are free.
Edited by Cecilectomy
n/a
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
21st November, 2009 at 08:17:18 -
Are you a fan of retro games?
Yes
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Yes
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
Yes
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Doesn't matter (same as Cecil)
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
Removed. Just because it's "retro" doesn't mean it has to suffer from bad game design. Make the game fun to play.
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
$10 - more only if it was really good.
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
Fast Paced Action. Co-Op things are also fun.
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Yes
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
Yes, if it was good
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Both, retro has its charm but newer graphics can add so much more detail and set the scene better.
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
Warts and All
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
$15
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
The mystery. Most new games, even lots of the indie games I've played seem to have removed the mystery. Playing stuff like Turrican or other classic games have lots of intricate secrets that sometimes just dont show up at all. As a kid they always puzzled me (in Turrican theres a flashing sign on level 2-3 that sometimes appears, which lead me into so many hours of just testing to see what triggered it).
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Yes
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
Yes
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Eh, depends on the game.
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
Old Graphics
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
Depends on the game, not much.
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
8-bit is for nostalgia and the very very occasional simple arcade-y 8-bit game. Otherwise I say skip that old crappy art. 16-bit I absolutely love, because it's a detailed and still fairly simple style. SNES-era games also had a certain something that's hard to pin down but adds charm.
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Of course.
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
Sure.
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
I'm having trouble understanding this question, but I'll say that I'd enjoy a good game.
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
I'm assuming that you're thinking of poorly designed aspects of older games, in that case it's kind of obvious that you'd want to improve upon their flaws. Although most of the things you mentioned could work well in a game - depending on the game at hand.
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
Depends on the game's quality. However I wouldn't purchase a poorly made game in this "retro style" you speak of.
What are your favourite aspects of games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
I guess because there was a lot more visually 2D games on those consoles, and as with all eras, there were many good games to play.
What I mean by retro style games with more modern grapics are things like the more recent Castlevania games on the Nintendo DS and games like the original oddworld on the playstation 1. It had high quality pre-renderd graphics but it was still a fearly standerd patformer.
For an example of new retro games made comleat with retro graphics go and check out "Retro Game Challange" on the Nintendo DS. You should be able to find screen shots and videos online. All the games are actually new but they are made to look like they are from the 80's
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Yes
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
No!
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Doesn't matter, just make them look nice.
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
It's better to remove anything that's frustrating to the player.
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
$0
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
Interesting character and level design.
Discarded pizza boxes are an indispensable source of cheese.
Originally Posted by Disthron Hi alastair john jack,
What I mean by retro style games with more modern grapics are things like the more recent Castlevania games on the Nintendo DS and games like the original oddworld on the playstation 1. It had high quality pre-renderd graphics but it was still a fearly standerd patformer.
I wouldn't say that the Castlevania games on the NintendoDS (or GBA for that matter) are retro styled, they're just following the rules of a metroidvania - usually simple challenges/obstacles, exploration, occasional action or puzzles, backtracking, usually grinding, finding items (occasional useful, usually meaningless) etc. Metroidvanias have been alive for decades and, unfortunately, remained fashionable.
The Castlevania game on PSP and the new one on Wii, would probably have been better examples for your point. As there are few modern games (that I'm aware of) that are producing challenging, satisfying platform games in this 'old style'.
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Not as much as modern games
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
No
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Old Graphics
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
Warts and All
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
$3
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
The joy of actually winning. Back in the old days, it's almost impossible to win.. and winning meant huge bragging rights. These days, games actually become easier to suit the (lack of) skill of players - no bragging rights anymore.
But seriously though, don't ask people who make games what they want to see. You get a very, very flawed interpretation. Especially on price. Everyone who makes games want to push prices higher and wants to believe that it's worth more and you're going to get bloated numbers.
Also, by selling retro games, you're only appealing to people who grew up in the retro era. There's a huge, huge world outside retro and you're appealing to a niche market.. against people like Derek Yu and Konjak. People who started playing games in the late 90s or this decade just won't see any appeal in it at all, and a lot of people from the SNES and Genesis days have grown up to love more recent, shinier games.
If you want real survey results, ask your RL friends. Or go to a retro game site and count the number of members. In fact, you'd get a whole lot of info from retro game sites, especially what people there are rating high and stuff.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
24th November, 2009 at 02:08:58 -
Muz is completely right. If you're doing this for the money then you're going to be appealing to a very niche audience.
This year I've been buying a lot of games (Mainly through steam) because I'm now working more and I like to support developers. But $10 is a lot of money for a game to some people. I would say that if you're making retro games the market is quite small unless you make a cult hit. I'm not saying that you can't make money from it, because you definitely can. There are many succesful games with retro graphics, but like Muz said you should conduct a survey from people who aren't developers. Ask normal gamers what they think. Lurk on game forums and see what people like and don't like.
Well, I'm going to be making games with Multimedia Fusion 2. Possibly Developer. So the kind of games I'll be making will be platformers, over the head games, shmups, beat-em-ups. I had thought that those kinds of games were considered old fashioned by today's standards. So that's why I'm asking about them. I can't think of another way to come at it, but if anyone has a better idea I'm all ears.
Also, I'm entered into a government program calls the New Enterprise Incentive Scheme. Part of the requirements is that your business is accommodating a niche market. The reasoning is that a new business can't compete with well established ones so don't try.
Anyway, sorry I've taken so long to reply but I've been trying to get this business plan written.
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Yes / No
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
Yes / No
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Old Graphics
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
I agree with Cecil, I don't think those aspects made a retro game a classic so old graphics balanced with modern advances in gameplay would be an absolute winner. That said, Megaman 9 is frustratingly hard, yet me and my housemates stayed up until extremely late trying to beat it out of pure nostalgia for old games that tormented the hell out of us for days on end!
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
$10 - That's about £7 in our money, which isn't bad for a well crafted, well presented slice of retro goodness. Compared to buying yet another bog-standard run and gun FPS with next gen graphics for £40...
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
Appealing and clear-as-day graphics on an extremely limited palette, or not having to rely on shiny graphics to draw a fan-base. Take most of the "classic" old-skool games and most had a simple concept with even simpler graphics, yet have stood the test of gaming time by being memorable and generally awesome!
There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't.
Rob Westbrook brought up a good point about the exchange rate. I will be charging in Australian Dolars. So acording to www.xe.com $10 AUD (Australian Dollars) is 6 ERO and $9 USD (United States Dollars). In case any one was wondering. About the comments that $10 is a lot for some people. Maybe it's that my perseption on prices is scued. Over here you can expect a new game on PS3/360/PC to be around $100 -> $120. So $10 -> $15 seems pretty afordable to me.
Also, did anyone here play Retro Game Challenge on the Nintendo DS?
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One
Assault Andy Administrator
I make other people create vaporware
Registered 29/07/2002
Points 5686
27th November, 2009 at 12:57:07 -
Originally Posted by Disthron Over here you can expect a new game on PS3/360/PC to be around $100 -> $120
I'm in Aus too and they are rarely that as an actual price. If you pay more than $100 then it's almost always a rip-off store. MW2 for example was $120 at EB Games but $88 at JB-HiFi on the day of release. If you go to EB Games and ask them to price match, they will. They just want you as many people as they can get to buy it at that super high RRP.
If you're selling things on the internet I think it's best to sell in USD, even if you're Australian. USD is sort of a "Universal Currency" when it comes to the internet (just in my personal opinion.)
By the way Disthron - did you get the DC mail I sent you? It was really long.
As for the niche thing - yes there is a market for 'retro-style' games. But I think it would be a really neat idea if you came at them with the specs of today's computers. Eg. Making your games with an HD resolution and high quality pixel art. While I havent' really played Geometry wars, "Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved" ( http://store.steampowered.com/app/8400/ ) would be a game for this niche market.
Anyway, I got your message and I thought I responded already! Maybe I made a mistake while sending it.
Still, with MW2, $88 is a lot for a game I rented and finished in 2 days. And it wasn't even that good. I mean it wasn't crap or anything but the way people were talking about it you'd think it was the second coming. But that's just my opinion.
"Making your games with an HD resolution and high quality pixel art."
That's what I wont to do, but they will still all be 2D games made in MMF2. I still think that most people think 2D is old fashioned. That's why I'm taking the "retro game" tact. Do you think I'm wrong about how a 2D platformer would be perceived?
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One
Originally Posted by Disthron I still think that most people think 2D is old fashioned.
I don't think that's true anymore. With all these high quality, HD 2D games on Xbox Live and just good quality 2D games on the iPhone people are really getting back into 2D. I think there will always be a market for 2D. There's just a crispness you get with 2D. People will buy anything if the quality is good enough, hyped enough or simply become a cult classic.
I sort of see it this way.. pixel art is kinda like granite, carved with primitive tools, giving it a blocky look. 3D is more like something shaped out of brass; a lot more work, a lot more solid and smooth.
In the end, it's all different art styles. You can't really say it's old-fashioned. It's old-fashioned in the sense that it's the art style of the old days, and won't be popular any time soon. But you just develop a taste for whatever you're used to. People who grew up in the 80s, 90s have a taste for it. It's not exactly ugly, it's not beautiful either. It's a matter of taste.
I'd be wary of building a business purely around art style though, since you still have to build a solid game under it. I enjoy wireframe and ASCII art as much as I enjoy retro, but I'm not going to buy it just because of the art style. My money is purely for content. Dwarf Fortress uses ASCII art, and it gets $2000 a month. It has its niche of ASCII lovers, but a majority would prefer a more graphical approach. Spelunky uses pixel art and has fans new and old - but a more modern gamer friend said it'd be cooler if it was 3D.
Money is in the content, not art style. And if you're thinking of making "retro-styled gameplay", do remember that you have to compete with existing classic games like Sonic, Mario, and Mickey Mouse, and people don't pay for a remake of a game unless it has better artwork, which means that you can't make retro gameplay with retro art. The modern Frogger and Golden Axe remakes sell moderately well, but you can't really get a decent market with retro art AND gameplay without a lot of work.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Do you like games from the 8 to 16 bit era such as Super Nintendo or Mega Drive/Genesis games?
Sure
Would you be prepared to buy a new game made in a retro style?
It'd have to be REALLY good, I mean like jaw dropping. My all time favorite klik games are free, what makes yours so special?
Would you prefer to play retro games complete with retro graphics or would you prefer retro game play with more modern graphics?
Both, I don't care
Some aspects of retro games are considered annoying or frustrating by today's standards. Such as flying back 10 feet into spikes or death pits when hit, one hit wonders or enemies being able to hit you multiple times. Would you like those kings of elements removed or would you rather play retro styled games “warts and all”?
I have no idea what you're talking about. If you're going for old style than do what you percieve it to be.
How much would you be willing to pay for a new game made in a retro style?
$0.99 - 2.99 CAD (asking for more is greedy as hell) Also Quadratics will prove that you'll most likely make MORE money by charging LESS which fairs suitable to this demographic
What are your favourite aspects of retro games from the 8 and 16 bit era?
Both REALLY easy to learn and REALLY hard to master. Muz is correct, where are the bragging rights these days?
thinking is like pong, it's easy, but you miss sometimes.
2D has never been old fashioned and being 2D doesn't mean "retro", we've had games use it every year on so many platforms. 2D is a form of visual representation just like 3D. Just look at Cave, they continually pump out 2D masterpieces.
However, your right in the sense that the typical western console gamer's perception is that 2D is of the past and 3D is the present. Which is incorrect, it's just that many games on our consoles these days try to push 3D visual styles on the hardware. Rather than pushing the hardware to it's limits to make a fantastic 2D visual styled game, as was the case with many earlier consoles.
In terms of the way the game plays, there are really no old fashioned genres as games are always being released under those genres.
Honestly, you shouldn't have to worry about this - there's thousands of people who want to play well made games of a specific genre. Just make a game from a genre you're most interested in, and study the games of that genre (there are a lot) so you can become more of an expert.
What lacks in the majority of modern console games is challenge and score focused games, this is what you'd often find in our old games. These days many games are becoming "roller coaster rides" where it's more of an experience, you hardly have to earn your way to the next level - there is not as much satisfaction in getting to the next area. This is fine though, as this is what most players want (rather than need). Many older games were (thankfully) not as reliant on save systems, but unfortunately usually gave the player lots of continues (or infinite).
About pixel art, I don't have anything against it but I'd just like to do something using more higher res graphics. Also, I'm not bacing my game on a graphical style. But when people go to purchase a game, hell even just download a free one, they do two things. They read the blurb and look at the screen shots. First impressions count and if your game looks like crap then most people will assume that if you have not taken the time to do nice graphics then you probably have not taken the time to do fun game play. This may or may not be an unfair judgement but it seems that's how it is.
So I'm not basing my business on an art style but since I'm going to be working with Multimedia Fusion I am limited to 2D graphics. I'm not bothered by this but I need to let people know that I will not be making games in 3D.
Alaster, our consent of fun must be different but rest assured I'll have beta testers that will be able to tell me when the hard difficulty is hard enough.
Anyway, the hole reason I'm doing this research is because the government said I have too. So thanks to everyone who has answered my questions. I'm sorry if I'm not a professional survey writer or whatever there called. As for everyone else I really appreciate your feedback also.
"Oh, my god! A lightning monster just ripped out this poor woman's eyes, and your mocking her shrubbery!" - The Spoony One
I think it depends what you call "retro".
You could argue that most of the 2D games on the GBA would have been do-able on 16-bit consoles like the SNES, or in MMF2 if you have a *lot* of time and talent - does that make them retro?
I'd definitely pay money for games like Golden Sun, Riviera, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, etc. Those are all fantastic games that would work on any system - it's a real shame that those kind of games only tend to be made for handhelds now.
Incidentally, apart from maybe the odd driving game, I can't think of a 3D game that would make it into my top 10.
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Edited by Cecilectomy
