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JustinC



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19th September, 2009 at 22:11:34 -

Ok even if these rediculous statements about "death panels" or the idea of covering illegal immigrants were actually in the bill outline (they're not) it wouldn't matter considering the bill has not been finalized and is still in the planning stages by both democrats and republicans.

 
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UrbanMonk

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19th September, 2009 at 22:22:19 -

As KetchupMaster! said:

"The system we have today in the US is no doubt highly flawed...but why? You have to look at the simple economics of the situation. The government caused the problems in the 70s when they created the system of HMOs and corporate medicine that we have today. This caused health care costs to spiral out of control by removing control over the money going into health care from consumers. This gave people no incentive to look at costs when choosing healthcare so the costs went up and are still going up. If the government gets more involved, prices will increase even more and quality will decrease more. The healthcare system that we have is NOT the result of capitalism, it is the result of government policy.

The way to fix it is to get the government out of the business of meddling in healthcare, which was far more affordable and accessible before the government got involved. If you read about what healthcare was like before the government got involved, the united states had the healthcare system that was the envy of the world. We had the finest doctors and hospitals, and thousands of privately funded charities provided health services to the poor. There were emergency rooms where no one was turned away for lack of funds. People had insurance policies for serious illness but paid cash for routine visits to the doctor. It made sense and gave doctors every incentive to keep their prices low and their quality of care high. This is the most humanitarian way to deliver healthcare in a free society.

Healthcare is so obviously not a right. America was founded on the ideas of Natural Rights...that every individual has a right to their life, liberty, and property and they gain these rights solely as a virtue of their humanity, not because the government gives them those rights. These rights cannot be taken away unless you are violating someone elses rights. So to say that healthcare is a right is to say that you have a right to other people's wealth (their property), which is so obviously not true.

Besides all of those reasons, the US constitution gives the US federal government a limited set of enumerated powers and healthcare control is not one of them. Any member of congress who votes for the healthcare bill in america is violating their solemn oath to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the United States of America."


And Regarding the "Death Panels" I mentioned: You are technically right, "Death Panels" are not mentioned in the draft of the bill; however, the council Obama is setting up to decide whether or not you deserve treatment is a group of Czars headed by Ezekiel Emmanuel, Rahm Emmanuel's brother, who is Obama's "Special Adviser for Health Policy"


Ezekiel Emmanuel crafted something called the "Complete Lives System" - http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/PIIS0140673609601379.pdf

None of these Czars were vetted either- http://republicanredefined.com/domestic-issues/czar-vetted-ignorance-bliss


EDIT: We don't want obamacare for many reasons. The Death Panel reason just being one of the many.

Edited by UrbanMonk

 
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Yami



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19th September, 2009 at 22:34:15 -

Anywho who says FoxNews is biased and ignores all of the other biased media is a joke. Trying to turn this into a debate about who wants to save lives is completely irrelevant from anything that has been said thus far. Everyone and myself has no problem with people having healthcare; however, we obviously do not agree on how this should be done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_health_care_reform

^ That is why I do not agree with it. period

And for an even more obvious example on whose idea really works. Look at California's economy compared to Texas.

"Also, I believe your term of communism needs to be rethought out. There is a difference between it's theory and principles rather than the shit examples history has shown us so far or the warped statements people spew out in fear."

Now just because it has failed everytime since its existence doesn't mean it sucks.





 
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Jon Lambert

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19th September, 2009 at 22:36:48 -

It'd be hilarious if Barack Obama made an account here to answer this thread.

 
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Dr. James MD

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19th September, 2009 at 22:47:00 -


Originally Posted by UrbanMonk

Originally Posted by Yami
So who else thinks James just got pwned? You're starting to sound like those congressmen who say that BS about the Consitution being a living document.



You can't blame James for what he thinks. Thank his media for his view on this. He's just repeating what they've told him over and over. He's just spitting it back out.

So you have to make a decision James, either we're right or your wrong.



And with that...
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... I'm out.

 
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UrbanMonk

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19th September, 2009 at 23:18:23 -


Originally Posted by UrbanMonk
Yes that was a bit low of me to attack James on a personal level.



I sorta apologized for that already, but if you didn't feel that way. I'm sorry again. I was trying to be funny. Guess I wasn't taken that way.

 
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Scott S

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19th September, 2009 at 23:49:08 -

To honour Adams wishes.

*This Topic has been hit by a hockey stick and locked*

 
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OMC

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19th September, 2009 at 23:59:07 -

Don't forget the "eh" on the end!

 

  		
  		

Scott S

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20th September, 2009 at 00:16:22 -

*EH!*

 
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UrbanMonk

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20th September, 2009 at 00:21:48 -

Nooooo, my first topic that lasted more than 1 page and it gets locked!

 
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Trey



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20th September, 2009 at 01:48:02 -

Ugggghhh...just really quick here,

After reading though this post, can someone please show me the American hospital that turns people away when they have an emergency or sickness?

A lot of these libs are posting "X num of deaths because of no health care" blah, blah, blah... Bull crap. No one dies because they don't have a private health care plan. Hospitals in the US do not turn people away. They treat you first then...THEY BILL YOU LATER. No death.

 
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Jon Lambert

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20th September, 2009 at 03:05:05 -


I saw it once on TV.

 
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JustinC



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GOTM - MAY 2009 - 3RD PLACE!
20th September, 2009 at 03:23:40 -

"He's just repeating what they've told him over and over. He's just spitting it back out. "

This argument sucks. I could turn around and say you're just repeating what fox news tells you over and over.

For the record I don't watch any tv "news" anymore because it's all slanted opinions that only tell one side.

 
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UrbanMonk

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20th September, 2009 at 03:26:04 -

I don't watch tv news either. Ever. I get my news off the internet from wherever google sends me!

EDIT: Never watched fox news.
I've seen cnn a few times though

If you think what happened to that women was bad just wait until the government takes it over and the waiting times become even longer!
Where was the woman's family? If they really cared about her they would've been there with her!
I'm not saying the hospital was right in what they did, especially since they ignored her completely after she fell!

EDIT2: Hey JustinC you ought to read through the thread before posting anymore questions. I've already acknowledged most of them, so I'd just be repeating myself.

Edited by UrbanMonk

 
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OMC

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20th September, 2009 at 03:32:53 -

I hardly ever watch TV either... :\ especially if it's news.

That lady might not have had family. In another case I hope non-family around would see to helping her, or she would seek out help. But she was in a psych ward, which I don't know much about and I'm sure are living nightmares.

Also, what UrbanMonk said wasn't really an argument. It was a response so someone saying someone else was pwned. In a weird kind of way, it was a joking defense for the person... I think.

Edited by OMC

 

  		
  		
   

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