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Devernath



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18th July, 2009 at 23:53:13 -

Hey, is there a way to make good money from selling clickteam games? You wouldn't charge them, but, you would put a donate button, or something.

Unfortunately, since they are files that must be downloaded and not browser playable like Flash games, they may not be as marketable.

What do you guys think?

 
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Jon Lambert

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18th July, 2009 at 23:56:44 -

"Unfortunately, since they are files that must be downloaded and not browser playable like Flash games, they may not be as marketable."

There are games that people get off the internet and download all the time. They are browser playable with Java or Vitalize!. People sell click games all the time, including Faerie Solitaire, The Spirit Engine 2, Noitu Love 2, Frog Bound, and Cy-Clone. These things happen all the time although it can be difficult to make a game people will actually pay for. They should theoretically be just as marketable as any other PC game.

Again, people download games from the internet for purchase all the time, like with the Direct2Drive system.

 
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18th July, 2009 at 23:56:58 -

WTF. Yes you can sell Click games, people have done for a while, but only if the game is really worth selling (no bugs, nice graphics etc etc)

If you're using MMF2 standard you can sell your game, but you must include the MMF2 logo somewhere in the game. If you have MMF2 Developer you can make and sell games without giving any credit to Clickteam.

 
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OMC

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19th July, 2009 at 00:02:36 -


Originally Posted by Devernath
not browser playable like Flash games



Soon, old bean. Soon.

Your game might be interesting, captivating, unique, and solid, and that's all well and good. You also have to have good marketing. It has nothing to do with things made with Clickteam's products in general, just getting word out. I myself prefer downloadable games to online games because that almost always means a more solid, immersive experience that requires you have enough space to store theoretically awesome assets.

 

  		
  		

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19th July, 2009 at 00:06:40 -

The addition of the flash runtime will really open up klik to more markets as a developing tool, and in turn to more people who are interested in selling games. Also remember there are some flash games which are free to play as online games and also available to subscribe to for more options and access to more elements of a game. Even games where online interactions are not part of the game, perhaps it's a puzzle game which is really fun but only limited to say 20 levels if you are playing for free, but access to 200 levels in the paid version, new game modes and exciting development of the game as you progress further in. All things to consider.

 
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19th July, 2009 at 00:28:31 -

One of my college tutors coursemates built a full blown RTS game in Flash. On every level it was on par with commercial RTS games (and it was too big to host at the time) so he sold it on CD. Made a fair bit too. But yea you can pretty sell anything you want. I've played some very good little indie games that cost as much as a few quid. It's just you don't see many here (even the good games) becuase I don't know.

 
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Devernath



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19th July, 2009 at 03:04:27 -

so, how would you market your games best? start a site that has tons of click games (that has a strict system for getting in the directories) that has an individual donate button for each game?

i think giving games for free and just showing a donate button may attract more likeable consumers...

 
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Otter

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19th July, 2009 at 03:32:48 -

I think the best marketing tool is demoes. If you have a really huge and great game with a fantastic begining, a demo can make people really long to buy your game.

 
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OMC

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19th July, 2009 at 04:06:43 -

Use everything if you really want to get it out there. Post on facebook, start a site and put it in your sigs, show friends, get beta testers and tell them to spread the word, make youtube videos, submit to shareware sites and blogs, or even if it's good enough, submit it to big publishers like BigFishGames or Playrix!

 

  		
  		

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19th July, 2009 at 04:35:29 -

OMC is right, it's really about exposure. And you have to put in the hard work to get your game known, or recruit some people to help you do so.

And when you say making "good money" from selling games that are volunteer donations to download, that's not going to be very good money. If people could choose between getting something for free or paying something for it, the choice for many is going to be getting the game for free. Of course there are exclusions to this, but majority of people are obviously going to make the cheaper choice. Making it at least a requirement to make some donation of however much the person thinks is fair to pay for the game would be making something, but to make really good money you will need to set a decent price and sell a fair amount of copies.

Which again will come back to exposure and marketing

 
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Devernath



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19th July, 2009 at 06:16:00 -

I see.

Well, I'm going to try to put some demos here on TDC, and when I do, I'll ask the community if I still need more experience or if I'm ready to go out on the big world...

What kind of college class could help me with this, too?

 
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Muz



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19th July, 2009 at 07:52:25 -

I find that any college class helps in this. Most cost-effective would be game design. Most art courses help a lot too, especially if you're making your own. Computer science teaches you a lot of nice tricks that apply to MMF2 and a lot of useful network stuff. Even lets you make your own extensions. And heck... management, business, or commerce would really help you make money from it. Internet businesses need something.. different. Conventional business models don't take into mind the possibility of 80% of customers stealing the product

My favorite business model is still the donation type. Some people are willing to pay a lot more in donations (you can get donations of $50 or even a computer if you're lucky).. some people aren't going to pay at all. But often, the people who don't pay are the ones who would pirate it.

 
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19th July, 2009 at 10:10:08 -

Business studies will help you with the basic marketing knowledge, as well as graphic design. I have studied both when I was going through high school and college and you will learn fundamentals of advertising and marketing which will apply to selling products.
Also, graphic design and art should assist you with the visual side of your games, making sure your work is unified and visually appealing. And as Muz mentioned, science, math and physics will teach you things that can be applied into making game engines or gameplay designs.

I also think the donation idea is good, but as Devernath originally asked about, it's not going to make really high profit unless you reach a large audience. Really, if anyone donated between $0.01 and $20 and you are lucky enough to sell 100 copies, you are hypothetically looking at making between $1 and $2,000. Which is a huge range to consider and it's just chance on how people are feeling about giving generously when they donate. (And you probably won't hit that $2,000) If you were selling like 10 copies a week at random donation prices, over time it's nice extra money but yeah it's really about reaching that audience and getting the exposure and continued sales which will determine whether you are going to stop working and live on your profits, or have some extra bucks in your pocket. And even just getting that extra money would be nice anyway That's why getting on the back of a company like Big Fish Games is a great way to start because they already have that massive audience, you just need to pull the consumers in to get interested in your game, not try to pull together the buyers from nowhere if you sold, distributed and marketed your game individually.

 
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Devernath



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19th July, 2009 at 11:11:25 -

This is all interesting information.

The only reason I thought the donations would be a good idea is because I think it would attract consumers to like you more.

To only give a demo version for a game with let's be honest, not so hot graphics, is kind of a douchebag move. But a donate button could be more like generosity.

I don't expect to be making tons of money soon, but it is something with which you CAN build upon. So, I want to attract a good audience before reaping a huge profit, since I'm still in college and I'm in no rush financially.

But if I were to sell it, what should I charge? 2 dollars for a full version? At least for now.



 
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Klikmaster

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19th July, 2009 at 11:55:25 -

You have to be the judge on what your game is worth. Perhaps ask other people what they would be willing to pay for it.

 
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Muz



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19th July, 2009 at 12:18:59 -

I've seen horrible games charging $20 and people buying them. $5 or $10 is generous at times. Unreal World also has an excellent commercial system.. it charges like $3 for the full game (no updates), $10 for small patches, and $55 for lifetime registration. Combined with a rather amusing anti-piracy system, I've never once seen a pirated version of URW. URW is also a good benchmark, once you have an established game with some fans.

The income for Dwarf Fortress is what you should expect from donations:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=38125

Well, assuming that you have what's planned to be the best game in the world, with an army of fanatics. DF has some very highly educated (and highly paid) fans, so that pattern's about as generous as donations get. It's around $1000-$2000 a month, with a few donation spikes after minor releases, sometimes hitting $5000 after a major one. But DF does get some massive $500 or so donations when things are slow, only possible with an ambitious game.

Also, note that even Wikipedia has trouble getting donations, but their target was like $3Mil. Established sites like TDC has trouble gathering a measly $1000 per year, so don't expect games targeted at klikers to gain more than $300 per year.

If you don't want to code a supergame for food money, there's always the little shareware things like what Facebook games do. Make a free online game, and charge people for bonuses.

Edited by Muz

 
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OMC

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19th July, 2009 at 16:59:38 -

Or let advertisement companies clog it up and make it ugly but cash-causing.

 

  		
  		

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19th July, 2009 at 22:34:14 -


Originally Posted by Devernath
This is all interesting information.

The only reason I thought the donations would be a good idea is because I think it would attract consumers to like you more.

To only give a demo version for a game with let's be honest, not so hot graphics, is kind of a douchebag move. But a donate button could be more like generosity.

I don't expect to be making tons of money soon, but it is something with which you CAN build upon. So, I want to attract a good audience before reaping a huge profit, since I'm still in college and I'm in no rush financially.

But if I were to sell it, what should I charge? 2 dollars for a full version? At least for now.




Donations are a good business model, but it's all about selecting what is right for your needs and resources. At TDC, it's probably a really great one as a lot of the people here are starving gamers Well, a lot of people are still at school, possibly with no income, so paying a lot of money is not an option. Donations allow anyone to give at least something for the game. And yes, I think people are going to like it more but depending on the quality of your game, people might like you just as much as if it was a set price of say $10 for a really crazily cool game. But at TDC, even at $10-$15 games still just get a lot of "Oh, I'd buy this game it looks cool but I don't have any money." Which is a shame, really. Consider that here in Australia you could pay up to $90-$100 for a brand new Wii/Xbox 360 game. Up to $70 for a new DS game. Around $100 for a new computer game. So $10 is not really asking that much, but I'd say more than anything it's the doubts that people will have because perhaps you don't have graphics as flash as the new PC games or you don't have some sort of advanced physics engine to play with. But it boils down to fun, and even if you spend $100 on the latest console/PC games, a lot of those turn out to be shit and bore players quickly anyway.

Ultimately, Klikmaster is correct and you have to be the judge on what your game's worth.
Also, on what Muz/OMC was saying, you can make an online based game in Flash runtime and get those ads to display on your page, to earn a bit of money. Then charge for full version downloadable with no ads. That's common for a lot of different services, free to play or use but if you want more features, pay and get it downloaded to your computer to use any time when you're not online and don't be bothered by advertisements.

 
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20th July, 2009 at 14:45:27 -

The first step would be to make something worth selling.

 
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