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Rikus

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10th January, 2009 at 22:44:08 -

So 2008 was a rather same/same year for clickteam. Some stuff was released but these were add-ons to already existing products out there. Nothing really shocking. Do you think clickteam is spending to much time on all the schools-students and licensing deals instead focusing on the gamer folks?

I'm hoping 2009 is going to be the year they are going to shock us all, new announcements, more professional website etc, it should become the year were clickteam grows up into a company thats going to kick some mayor booty. Well that's what i'm "hoping" I just dont want them to fall behind and keep riding on the same stuff like they did this year.

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10th January, 2009 at 22:48:25 -

I totally agree. Clickteam needs more kick to their... Everything. I'd definitely like a shocker, as long as it's a good one. I wish they'd focus more on gamer people, but that's not our call. Still it'd be quite nice to see some happenings here and there...

 
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11th January, 2009 at 00:05:17 -

They released the build 248 with the incomplete Java beta runtime, which will still be beta even in the next build. Of course they can only get better, seeing as it's pretty much a given that they will release a new Java and non-beta HWA. Maybe they'll release a Java mobile runtime as well! They did give that preview with the Sudoku game on the forums. I don't think they'll be talking about MMF3, they told me themselves that that would be a long time from now. That's what I like about Clickteam, they talk directly to us, instead of sending out automated messages and hiring unimportant underlings for the forums.

Looks like its time to have another interview with Clickteam on Klikcast!

 
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Candy Cane
11th January, 2009 at 01:26:06 -

"Do you think clickteam is spending to much time on all the schools-students and licensing deals instead focusing on the gamer folks?"

What? You need to remember that they spend a lot of their time dealing with bugs, requests and PM's, and making examples (they being mainly Yves and Francois) in between their major work towards improving the software (whether that be working on HWA or Java or even MMF3, I don't know)

And besides, there's nothing wrong with trying to promote their product and find more talented clickers from schools, it's how it should be. You yourself have always said how your kids will make games one day, Rikus, it surprises me you haven't really thought from that angle.

Edited by Ski

 
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11th January, 2009 at 02:36:19 -

I don't know what they're cooking up, but considering it doesn't seem to have much to do with HWA or more bug fixes for MMF2, I don't really think I'm interested. Honestly, I couldn't care less if they decided to do an MMF3. That's just one more version I need to buy, for all the bug fixes and improvements I should have seen in MMF2. I love MMF2, let's keep it to this one please, Clickteam.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 02:51:00 -

Click Team has to make money some how BrandonC, and no one will force you or anyone else to buy mmf3. Aside from that, I think it's kind of funny how we automatically expect clickteam to keep improving MMF2. When I buy any other piece of software, I don't expect it to have any more features than it did the day I bought it. Bug fixes yes, but not new features.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 05:52:37 -


Originally Posted by Rikus
Do you think clickteam is spending to much time on all the schools-students and licensing deals instead focusing on the gamer folks?


IMHO, that's the right way to go. Schools are the perfect target for MMF, what with that guy who thought up the idea of the $100 laptop deciding that programming makes kids smart. If Clickteam can convince parents that MMF makes their kids smart, making it a common school product, they could be the next Windows.

Focusing on gamer folks is not always the best way. Partly because gamers are a short-lived group, with more tendency to pirate things, and damn ungrateful too. The average kliker seems to retire at about 25. The average hardcore game maker, skilled and experienced in making good games, is around 18-21, college age, making him a short-term solution.

School kids will earn you a more loyal fanbase, and a longer lasting one. For them, it's the right decision. If you want something that focuses more on gamers, there's plenty of them out there, like Construct. Scirra's made a lot more bug fixes this year than Clickteam

 
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Candy Cane
11th January, 2009 at 05:58:53 -

"Scirra's made a lot more bug fixes this year than Clickteam "

Because it's completely riddled with bugs, being fairly new, perhaps? _'

 
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11th January, 2009 at 10:52:39 -

From a purely selfish point of view, i say "yes, they sould focus more on us gamer folk in 2009"! However, i expect them to make money since they are a business so what can you do? I don't know what else they are involved in (i.e. the schools thing) so i can't comment on that, so i won't.

What i would like to see though is MMF-3D in 2009! Bit of a long shot really, so i'll take the HWA version of MMF 2 if that's off the menu. Is it possible that MMF3 will be the HWA version and that the beta for MMF2 was just them testing the water?

 
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11th January, 2009 at 12:38:02 -

How many gamers actually want to make games? I would think that of the millions of gamers out there, only a small percentage of them actually want to make games. I would also think that people who grew up playing video games would be more likely to want to make them than the average Joe who plays games less than 10 hours a week.

And what is a gamer? Is it a lifestyle, a hobby, or a generic term? For people who grew up playing games, it's a lifestyle. For those average joes, a hobby. For the addict players who only play one game 24/7 (ie, WoW), it's still a hobby; A little bit obsessive maybe, but a hobby. For the casual players, who play the simpler games like Bejeweled, it's a generic term.

If Clickteam wants to target the gamer demographic, they're going to have a better chance targetting the lifestyle gamers over the hobbyists. Hobbyists might generate more initial sales, but it's the lifestylers that are likely to buy future versions. If CT wants more sales in the short term, hobbyists are the way to go. The thing is, most lifestyled gamers are growing up or have grown up, like Muz said; If they wanted to make games, then they're either in college learning a programming language or taking an art course, or they've already learned the language and what-not and are just looking for jobs. Simply, less sales. Overall, it'd be much smarter to look to the student demographic than gamer demographic.


Originally Posted by Ricky
When I buy any other piece of software, I don't expect it to have any more features than it did the day I bought it. Bug fixes yes, but not new features.



I too don't buy new versions of software expecting new features. Why add new features when you can just keep fixing bugs!

I hope 2009 brings us simple updates, like being able to rename qualifiers. There's a bunch of other stuff I'd list, but I forgot what they are.

 

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11th January, 2009 at 13:48:02 -

I'm satisfied as long as they keep updating bug fixes and supporting us MMF2 folks.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 14:06:09 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
"Do you think clickteam is spending to much time on all the schools-students and licensing deals instead focusing on the gamer folks?"

What? You need to remember that they spend a lot of their time dealing with bugs, requests and PM's, and making examples (they being mainly Yves and Francois) in between their major work towards improving the software (whether that be working on HWA or Java or even MMF3, I don't know)

And besides, there's nothing wrong with trying to promote their product and find more talented clickers from schools, it's how it should be. You yourself have always said how your kids will make games one day, Rikus, it surprises me you haven't really thought from that angle.



Right, but as far as I know they are two of them and they work full time so if that's all they did the whole year, then you can't say they did much. Ashley from scirra used to do all that by himself and he's a university student, not to mention that at that time Construct used to be updated way faster than MMF2, with new builds with a huge amount of bug fixes and additions being released almost every week.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 14:33:56 -

Yeah but construct is buggy as hell. And crap. You're also failing to remember that Construct is a fairly new clone, so it going to have hell of a lot more bugs (most being easier to fix) than MMF2's. And of course Ashley's working his ass off on it, you need to look good after you've stolen something.

Edited by Ski

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11th January, 2009 at 15:33:33 -

Have they released an update for MMF2 this year? I know we had HWA early on in the year (or was it late on in last year). But no patches to fix the smaller bugs and big sound crashing bug. And HWA itself is taking very long.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 15:43:32 -

I meant that Construct's making a lot of bug fixes, because it's got a lot more bugs in the first place

It's normal really. Unfortunately, MMF2 is already such a perfected product, there's nothing else that can be added on top of it. The only flaw is the klik model itself - writing things in the expression editor is painful, but not nearly as bad as it was in MMF1.5

They've pushed MMF2 as far as it could go. Construct, on the other hand, was built from scratch recently, with a lot of workarounds to the problems that are already buried deep within klik products, e.g:
Image

..based on an actual technological S-Curve model
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Simply put, Clickteam could be tossing huge amounts of effort in improving MMF2, but it just won't show, because it's already near the peak of the S-curve. They've got a good record and their HWA is very much stable, but still "beta", because they insist on releasing it with not even a single bug.

The only option CT has left is marketing it. Or building a brand new "Construct-Killer" from scratch.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 16:04:16 -

I just hope CT see Construct for the rival it could be and simply make MMF2 (or 3) a whole lot more powerful.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 16:14:42 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
Yeah but construct is buggy as hell. And crap. You're also failing to remember that Construct is a fairly new clone, so it going to have hell of a lot more bugs (most being easier to fix) than MMF2's. And of course Ashley's working his ass off on it, you need to look good after you've stolen something.



Not to bring the construct vs. mmf2 discussion again but you should take a look at the latest builds, if for you it's still crap then mmf2 is crap too. I wish mmf2 had some of construct's features, and I wish Construct had mmf2's stability (however note that it's getting there fairly quickly), but in the end of the day, construct is free while mmf2 isn't.

Also construct having more bugs than mmf2 has nothing to do with clickteam. If MMf2 has fewer bugs then great they could focus in these few bugs instead of having to focus in several bugs like scirra do. The truth is (at least) two full time workers are being outpaced by a single part time worker (who has very little free time, being a university student).

btw as far as I know he didn't steal anything, all he did was beta test mmf2 and then started to create a new tool, I don't know how that counts as stealing.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 18:32:21 -

"Not to bring the construct vs. mmf2 discussion again "

Well you clearly are doing, but that's not to be helped being a defensive fan of Construct, I guess.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 19:06:45 -

I'm not a defensive fan of construct, I never did anything with it other than playing around for a few minutes, and I own mmf2 so it's not of my interest to see clickteam going down. However I do think Construct has quite a lot of potential and is already perfectly usable, and nobody can deny that Construct is increasingly becoming a serious threat to Clickteam with each new update. And since it's free I can have both, so isn't that great ?

And talking about taking sides:

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Edited by Johnny Look

 
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Candy Cane
11th January, 2009 at 19:12:06 -

OH MY GOD! I made some graphic libraries for CT! WAIT so did 10 other people ! Doesn't exactly make me a CT staff member, but perhaps makes me understand a bit more about loyalty, and how NOT to back stab those you work with/for.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 19:14:32 -

Didn't know they had a list like that
But yea... I'd like MMF2 to have a time scaling function like Construct and zoom in/out (even Gamemaker does this). Moving the OK and Cancel buttons in the image editor would be nice, I've never hit the wrong one but they do seem perilously close. And sometimes it crashes when I try playing sound samples and music from the sound list. And what's with the graphic replacement bug? I know Kyle had the same problem with Bonesaw and I've found my own way around it but it's still annoying.

 
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11th January, 2009 at 22:38:11 -

Why does anyone dis Construct? It's an exciting new rival to MMF2 that has the potential to make games as good as, if not better than, any Click product has so far. That makes it alright in my opinion; I am especially impressed with W.I.T.E. at the moment. Sure it hasn't many people using it at the moment and we've not seen anything mind-blowing yet, but i bet they said the same about KnP in the 90's too.

And as for loyalty, well that's fine for some people however i know for a fact that no business puts your loyalty above its own desires, so why do the same for them? If you prefere MMF2 to Construct because it has more features that you want then fine. If you prefere Construct because it can do things MMF2 cannot yet then fine. And if you like them both for the advantages they both have then that's fine too.

If you prefere one over the other in the name of loyalty however, only you will lose out in the end! If i had stayed loyal to SEGA after the 16-bit generation i'd have never experienced the wonders of the Playstation, PS2 and XBox 360! There's only one brand i am ever loyal to - brand Marko!

 
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11th January, 2009 at 22:53:23 -


Originally Posted by Mark Radon
Why does anyone dis Construct? It's an exciting new rival to MMF2 that has the potential to make games as good as, if not better than, any Click product has so far. That makes it alright in my opinion; I am especially impressed with W.I.T.E. at the moment. Sure it hasn't many people using it at the moment and we've not seen anything mind-blowing yet, but i bet they said the same about KnP in the 90's too.

And as for loyalty, well that's fine for some people however i know for a fact that no business puts your loyalty above its own desires, so why do the same for them? If you prefere MMF2 to Construct because it has more features that you want then fine. If you prefere Construct because it can do things MMF2 cannot yet then fine. And if you like them both for the advantages they both have then that's fine too.

If you prefere one over the other in the name of loyalty however, only you will lose out in the end! If i had stayed loyal to SEGA after the 16-bit generation i'd have never experienced the wonders of the Playstation, PS2 and XBox 360! There's only one brand i am ever loyal to - brand Marko!



Not everyone is dissing Construct, on the contrary, the only two Construct bashers I know are Adam and Liji, both being related to Clickteam in some way.

Edited by Johnny Look

 
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11th January, 2009 at 23:29:38 -

This is now a MMF vs. Construct discussion. Holster those guns.

I think Clickteam will come up with something new and exciting Like originally said, 08 was a steady year with nothing massive. They will more than likely complete HWA (or get close to it) and get further along with Java too. And maybe they will announce a new project or endeavor.

 
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12th January, 2009 at 01:21:10 -

OH NOES HEATED DEBATE SHALL WE GET AN ADMIN TO LOCK THE TOPIC NOW K THX

 
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12th January, 2009 at 17:32:59 -

I think 2008 was a bit disappointing year as I was expecting more. Of course last year's effort will usually lead to results in next year, so you can't quite consider years separate from each other in that sense, but nevertheless I was waiting for the Java runtime to get finished during 2008 and also some sort of a first version of the Java mobile runtime. And the HWA of course. None of these were released, but probably this year (not sure about the mobile java runtime though)...

 
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12th January, 2009 at 17:44:35 -

Maybe 2008 appeared to be a quite year because they are gonna have a few great things to reveal in 2009?! That would make up for it!

 
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