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bear.



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19th December, 2008 at 23:12:27 -

http://create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=240257

I'm working on a 2D Katamari Damacy game that mimics this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe08F2SX0Ng

I'm using MMF2 and I need bigtime help.

Basically, I need to create an engine that allows you to have a physics ball that can jump, roll, pickup objects smaller than it, and stick those objects to it (they need to rotate with the ball)

Also important is the ability to create a long, pole-ish object, that you can roll up, that would make the katamari roll awkwardly (basically, the katamari needs to roll based on what is in it, not just always rolling like a perfect ball.)

I was thinking each object should be assigned a size, and the katamari is one object. every object that you pick up becomes "pasted" into the katamari, so it grows larger and larger. If the computer detects that you collide with an object smaller than the katamari, it picks it up.

But I really have no idea where to start. Could anyone help me with this?

Seriously, I'm lost.

But don't think that means I'm some kind of noob - I intend to get this done and I want it to come out excellent.

So can anyone help?

 
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20th December, 2008 at 00:12:51 -

I own that game, Ive never seen that mini game, awesome. Also, why have you made two threads when there only needed to be one?

 
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bear.



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20th December, 2008 at 00:35:53 -

eh, they're kind of about two different things. this specifically is the ball rolling engine, the other one is all about art and sound and stuff..

but also so more people see it.

and yeah, isn't that minigame awesome? I'd love to recreate it and expand it with lots of different modes. I'd probably also stop the continual scroll.

 
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W3R3W00F

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20th December, 2008 at 00:42:48 -


Originally Posted by bear.
eh, they're kind of about two different things. this specifically is the ball rolling engine, the other one is all about art and sound and stuff..

but also so more people see it.

and yeah, isn't that minigame awesome? I'd love to recreate it and expand it with lots of different modes. I'd probably also stop the continual scroll.



You really only need to post it once. But I guess it's OK.

 
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bear.



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20th December, 2008 at 00:48:21 -

Yeah, but see, it's already worked the other thread has no replies.

So is anyone willing to help me?

Pweasseeee?

I can pay you in uh....

cookies.

or something.

 
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W3R3W00F

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20th December, 2008 at 01:42:39 -

Well I'm not sure how it'd work tbh, but It would require some heavy coding. I can tell you that.

 
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Jon C-B

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20th December, 2008 at 02:00:55 -


Originally Posted by bear.
Yeah, but see, it's already worked the other thread has no replies.

So is anyone willing to help me?

Pweasseeee?

I can pay you in uh....

cookies.

or something.


The idea sounds great, but I don't know squat about how to do that...

 
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W3R3W00F

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20th December, 2008 at 02:17:28 -


Originally Posted by Jon C-B

Originally Posted by bear.
Yeah, but see, it's already worked the other thread has no replies.

So is anyone willing to help me?

Pweasseeee?

I can pay you in uh....

cookies.

or something.


The idea sounds great, but I don't know squat about how to do that...



Same here.

 
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bear.



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20th December, 2008 at 04:13:18 -

Damn, well there's gotta be someone... i've seen some amazing things published on this site, I'm sure someone can do it...

 
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W3R3W00F

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20th December, 2008 at 04:18:20 -

I'd say Dr. James or Adam. IDK, but Maybe. There's alot of people on here that are really good when it comes to MMF2 and Whatnot. You're right tho, there's BOUND to be someone that knows how to do this sort of thing.

 
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bear.



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20th December, 2008 at 06:14:54 -

Well, if you guys could help out with anything, that'd be great too (not just programming wise, although that is what this topic is about)

Should I contact those people you mentioned?

 
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W3R3W00F

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20th December, 2008 at 12:44:22 -

"Should I contact those people you mentioned?"

Could, if you wanted to.

Edited by W3R3W00F

 
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bear.



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20th December, 2008 at 22:20:11 -

come on people, reply.

this is a good idea

 
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Assault Andy

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21st December, 2008 at 02:42:03 -

I've never played this game before, but your best bet would be to use a physics extension. Box2D is in beta but it will have the right features for you to make this game with: http://www.clickteam.com/epicenter/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=120107#Post120107

Basically you would need to have each different object as a physics shape and you would need an intial ball shape. Then whenever you hit a new object with your ball you add a joint between the ball and the object you hit.

You could also try the Chipmunk Phizix extension, but Box2D is going to be bigger an better. The beta version works extremely well at this stage aswell.

 
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Dr. James MD

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21st December, 2008 at 02:48:59 -

No public beta test?
No happy Doctor.

 
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bear.



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21st December, 2008 at 04:23:16 -


Originally Posted by Assault Andy
I've never played this game before, but your best bet would be to use a physics extension. Box2D is in beta but it will have the right features for you to make this game with: http://www.clickteam.com/epicenter/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=120107#Post120107

Basically you would need to have each different object as a physics shape and you would need an intial ball shape. Then whenever you hit a new object with your ball you add a joint between the ball and the object you hit.

You could also try the Chipmunk Phizix extension, but Box2D is going to be bigger an better. The beta version works extremely well at this stage aswell.



Very helpful advice, could you send me the extension? I already asked him for a beta but he hasn't responded yet.

 
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Werbad



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21st December, 2008 at 09:59:29 -

I could send you the beta, but since I haven't finished the documentation I'm not sure you will understand it. Prior phizix knowledge is kind of a requirement to understand the Box2D version at this point.

 
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bear.



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21st December, 2008 at 16:40:34 -

hmm. well it's worth a shot isn't it?

 
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Dr. James MD

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21st December, 2008 at 18:48:56 -

Graw dammit I didn't read the whole thread. Right. It's definitely possible to do but with all them rotations it'd need to be made with HWA.

Just mind sketching this... It's possible if Active 1 collides with the ball and its value A is 0, set to 1 and value B to the distance from the epicentre of the ball. When value is 1 set angle to the angle of the ball and (this bit will need a maths person) set the position to some formula running off the distance value.

Then, if a object with value A:0 hits an object with value A:1, then turn that into an A:1 object too. No physics required but there will be resource suckage from all them rotating actives.

 
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W3R3W00F

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21st December, 2008 at 19:06:55 -

My brain hurts. >_< (Proof of being under C++ knowledge)

Nawh I get it.

Edited by W3R3W00F

 
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bear.



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21st December, 2008 at 19:35:52 -


Originally Posted by Dr. James
Graw dammit I didn't read the whole thread. Right. It's definitely possible to do but with all them rotations it'd need to be made with HWA.

Just mind sketching this... It's possible if Active 1 collides with the ball and its value A is 0, set to 1 and value B to the distance from the epicentre of the ball. When value is 1 set angle to the angle of the ball and (this bit will need a maths person) set the position to some formula running off the distance value.

Then, if a object with value A:0 hits an object with value A:1, then turn that into an A:1 object too. No physics required but there will be resource suckage from all them rotating actives.



Okay, I think I see what you're saying. But some objects will be obstacles until you're big enough (like mushrooms) while others need to be background until you're big enough (like buildings)

so there has to be a way of measuring the ball by how large it is. Give it a counter or something, and have every object have an assigned size, add that to the ball....

still, the ball has to have a certain physics aspect to it - its kind of bouncyish and it needs to be able to roll like a real ball (like in the video). also, would jumping be a problem?

i sort of understand what you're getting at here but not entirely.

and yeah, i figured the rotations would be the most difficult part. since there will be SO MANY objects in the katamari, perhaps a system could be devised that deletes objects once they become too small to notice anyways. it could be as simple as "if katamari is > than 8m, delete all objects in katamari under 2cm" or something like that

could you maybe make an example?

will what you proposed work, even?

Edited by bear.

 
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Edron



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21st December, 2008 at 20:26:22 -

there's the sticky object from andos, I think. It doesn't work under hwa. Or you could use the normal runtime with A/P animated objects and as james said, once they touch the object, record their position into two values. another thing that could be done in an easier way is to simply take a picture of the ball with the added object and then display it in the active picture object. you could take the screenshot outside the frame and granted, though it will pause for a little, you could make it come off as a bonus. it can be done in mmf2, definitely.

 
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bear.



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21st December, 2008 at 21:49:31 -


Originally Posted by Edron
there's the sticky object from andos, I think. It doesn't work under hwa. Or you could use the normal runtime with A/P animated objects and as james said, once they touch the object, record their position into two values. another thing that could be done in an easier way is to simply take a picture of the ball with the added object and then display it in the active picture object. you could take the screenshot outside the frame and granted, though it will pause for a little, you could make it come off as a bonus. it can be done in mmf2, definitely.



I'll give the sticky object a try, I guess.

http://click.andersriggelsen.dk/extensions/

Could someone compile it for me? I've got no idea how to

What do you guys mean, "record their position into two values"?

 
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Klikmaster

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21st December, 2008 at 21:55:34 -

Don't think the sticky object would help, unless it handles rotations; I have no idea whether it does or not.

The issue you have is how do you know how big the ball is? When things get stuck, how will it know to form in the shape of a ball?

 
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bear.



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21st December, 2008 at 22:09:50 -


Originally Posted by Canto
Don't think the sticky object would help, unless it handles rotations; I have no idea whether it does or not.

The issue you have is how do you know how big the ball is? When things get stuck, how will it know to form in the shape of a ball?



I'm pretty sure it does - i could confirm it if someone could compile that for me, however it must have an object limit... but like i said earlier, there's got to be a way around it, like deleting smaller objects after you don't need them.... however i think it would be easier for them to have the appearance of being stuck to the katamari rather than actually being a part of the katamari, so you have a single rolling ball object rather than.... tons and tons of objects all moving as one mass.

I'm not sure about how it would "know" to form the shape of a ball.... perhaps if you made large awkward objects stick more towards the center? I'm not sure, however they did it in the video... I'll have to watch that again.

But also it would naturally take the shape of a ball if it is constantly rolling when picking things up.

 
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22nd December, 2008 at 00:50:43 -

Some of the other methods here might work to a degree, but if you want anything like the video you're going to have to code a certain aspect of physics into it. If you look at the video the ball 'falls' into holes and contours around the background. There is an amount of friction and pressure on each object which allows the ball to move like this. You could do something similar by using a ball that collided with the ground and had a larger radius as it collided with other objects, which would be simpler, but it wouldn't be the same effect. And since you "intend to get this done and want it to come out excellent", a physics extension is probably your best bet.

If you've messaged Werbad then I'm sure he'll get to you in due time. As long as you've got experience with the chipmunk engine then you should be fine.

 
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bear.



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22nd December, 2008 at 01:17:20 -


Originally Posted by Assault Andy
Some of the other methods here might work to a degree, but if you want anything like the video you're going to have to code a certain aspect of physics into it. If you look at the video the ball 'falls' into holes and contours around the background. There is an amount of friction and pressure on each object which allows the ball to move like this. You could do something similar by using a ball that collided with the ground and had a larger radius as it collided with other objects, which would be simpler, but it wouldn't be the same effect. And since you "intend to get this done and want it to come out excellent", a physics extension is probably your best bet.

If you've messaged Werbad then I'm sure he'll get to you in due time. As long as you've got experience with the chipmunk engine then you should be fine.



With the chipmunk engine?

what?

Which one?

I haven't been on the MMF2 scene for a while so a lot of stuff has passed me by.

But your advice has been very helpful, thanks. And yeah, a physics extension seemed to be the best option presented - however, Werbad said earlier in this thread i probably wouldn't understand the extension.... I'm hoping he'll still send it to me. I think in the video, there's a seperate entity for how the ball acts and how it looks - its not directly rolling based on the objects inside it, it rolls on a circular "ball" inside the objects, which is why they "float" beneath the ground and fill up holes. Otherwise it would become difficult to roll.

Even when I do get the extension though, I'll likely be confused as hell so your guys help would be very welcome

you'll be in the credits if that's any comfort. haha.

 
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Assault Andy

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22nd December, 2008 at 04:39:09 -

In that case, if you're new to the MMF scene, then I would reccomend using the Chipmunk Phizix extension which is available for MMF. It will be suitable for this type of game. You can just use a ball shape which rotates and grows in diameter and have the objects stick to it as a graphical kind of thing. Good luck

 
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bear.



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22nd December, 2008 at 17:26:01 -

He sent me the Box2D beta, I'll give that a try.

And I'm not new to the MMF scene, I just haven't been on this site for quite some time.

 
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bear.



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22nd December, 2008 at 17:57:43 -

Alright, so I downloaded and played around with the objects, and as predicted, I have no idea how to use them.

The sticky object does deal with rotations and angles, which is good.

But for the physics of the actual ball itself, I should probably use Box2D.

I'm not sure what I should use for the sticking. I only want it to appear to stick, basically - they don't need to be actual joints, they just need to become "attached" to the ball. The ball also needs a slight bounciness and lack of gravity and of course needs to be controlled with WASD.

I'm thinking perhaps the sticky object would be easier for this...

But I'm not sure how to create such a ball with Box2D

 
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bear.



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23rd December, 2008 at 19:49:01 -

uhmm

welll

errr

bump?

 
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bear.



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28th December, 2008 at 03:32:06 -

c'mon guys, did you forget about me?

I need help!

 
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Deleted User
29th December, 2008 at 21:17:39 -

I am very willing to help. Check your messages.

 
   

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