Seeing how about 80% of klikers dislike games with installers, I was thinking that maybe we admins should include a tag that mentions whenever a game uses an installer. Would that be a good idea, or would it be discrimination?
(a nice side effect is that newbies will learn the lesson about installers quickly)
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
So if 80% dislike them, what's the point of labeling them so they are basically useless (as about 80% wont look at them). People will judge the game before they've even played it (even more so than they already do)And some people may be missing out on a damn good game.
To be honest, I'm tired of all this "omg it has an installer" crap. Yes it takes about 20 seconds longer than clicking on an exe file, then 20 more uninstalling, but seriously it's not that big a deal, should the creator choose to use one
Or just let it alone. If you have a slow enough internet and a closed enough mind that you complain because you downloaded something that *gasp* opened an installer rather then game or zip file (cause you know, people are complaining about rar's now too), then maybe you should either upgrade to a less disappointing internet connection, or just not download.
Just saying. We've been fine for over a decade. Plus, blame Clickteam to a degree, for encouraging it. Not only did they make Install Maker, but they went one step farther and made Install Creator.
PS:
If the game is named:
Setup.exe
Game.exe or
Setup.zip
GameSetup.exe
If installers are that big of a deal, then what do you have a to lose by avoiding the above examples. Oh wait, a good game? Nah, it had an installer... who cares.
I installed a click game a few weeks ago and it didn't provide an uninstaller. Also it was not in the programs list or add/remove programs. It really just enraged me a lot. It's actually still on my machine as I can't be bothered searching in Program files for it. Forgot what the game was called now, too.
I don't think we should start kicking out installers, but a little warning would be nice. I'll admit that I'd probably not download the game though, unless it looked appealing to me... :$
Actually, I kinda stopped downloading klik games because I was bored of coming across an installer. I find installers about as annoying as MSG (in more ways than one) :/ And I've seen games where people comment "tell me if this game is worth playing, because I'm not going to install it if its not". I sometimes also mention to the guy who made it not to use installers anyway if he wants more people to download it.
It's not really that hard to add a tag that does it. Assuming the admins do their work and run the file they downloaded, they should pretty much know whether a game has an installer or not. And the klikers who insist that installers are professional could proudly show the "This game has an installer" tag.
But yeah, unless like 80% of TDC thinks it's a good idea, it won't happen. Hmm.. new general poll?
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I don't see the harm in installers if they are used correctly. If a game or application is coded imn such a way it requires an installer then yes by all means use one but if you are using one "just to make it look professional" then forget it.
There is a constant whining on this site about how everyone should conform to one system or another, Construct or MMf, Installers or Stand-alone. I thought this was a COMMUNITY not a dictatorship for God's Sake.
I for one will use installers where necessary to ensure the application i am making runs the way i intend it to. if you don't want to download it don't but don't whinge at me for doing so.
Maybe just include a radio button on the "Submit download" page that asks "Does this game have an installer? Yes/No". Then the admins wouldn't have to do any work, the people who hate installers wouldn't have to download them and the games comment pages wouldn't be full of comments about the installers.
Simple yes?
I'm personally not too bothered by them, but seeing how a load of clickers hate installers then I see no reason to hide the fact that your game has an installer.
Maybe include other radio buttons on the "Submit Download" page too, like "Is this a demo? Yes/No", "Is this game freeware/shareware" etc. Would certainly help people filter their searches better.
I do find installers annoying but its only a minor niggle because you need to install/uninstall it and often the game doesn't put a link on your desktop, making your look for it in your start menu.
But they don't turn me away from the download, even though someone usually makes a comment so it's clear if a game is or not.
But some indication that people might be turned away and maybe a link to an article explaining why would help.
Depending on the knp/tgf/mmf generation, installers can leave directories and files all over the place-- in the windows folder, Program Files, The Start Menu... And if you're like me, not knowing whether or not you got every single one keeps you awake at night. O_O
Likely, the people whose games have installers are the same people whose games are still n00bish, which will likely warrant low download numbers anyway. There should be a sign when uploading, "Please refrain from using installers if at all possible". And then a little warning on the download page if it does.
Personally, if a game is good, I don't care if it has an installer. It doesn't bug me all that much. I just see if the game is worth downloading by others' comments.
Originally Posted by OldManClayton Depending on the knp/tgf/mmf generation, installers can leave directories and files all over the place-- in the windows folder, Program Files, The Start Menu... And if you're like me, not knowing whether or not you got every single one keeps you awake at night. O_O
This only applies to those install routines created by the built in one in click program used. I use Setup2go for most of any installation routines and it does evrything you would ever need to do including creating/removing any required registry keys.
I think requesting that people avoid installers completely would increase the number of cmplaints about the size of games as installers generally reduce file sizes.
I think there should be a radio button like Boothman suggested, but make it optional. Or, have a third option that says "Read the description for further information" or something.
If someone sees that the game has an installer, they're probably not going to bother looking at the game anymore. That could be a substantial amount of downloads, too.
I say it should be optional or say that such information is provided in the download description because I plan on using an installer for my game, but I know that I'm going to make my own installer. An installer that doesn't actually install the game, but just puts everything where it needs to be, like font files or a shared media location.
Originally Posted by OldManClayton Depending on the knp/tgf/mmf generation, installers can leave directories and files all over the place-- in the windows folder, Program Files, The Start Menu... And if you're like me, not knowing whether or not you got every single one keeps you awake at night. O_O
This only applies to those install routines created by the built in one in click program used. I use Setup2go for most of any installation routines and it does evrything you would ever need to do including creating/removing any required registry keys.
I think requesting that people avoid installers completely would increase the number of cmplaints about the size of games as installers generally reduce file sizes.
Not by much. Compressed archives do the job fine. People would rather have a little bit bigger of a filesize than an installer.
Even with other installer programs, there can be minor loose ends that add up. That's why it's not a good idea to install thing after thing after thing on your computer, even though you can uninstall them, because it still gunks up.
Let the submitter enter 2 seperate urls; one for a zip, one for an installer. But don't display which (or both) downloads contain them on the downloads list (do not discriminate against the 2, else you'll likely exclude some people from playing what could be a great game). Folk like me with more webspace than sense can easily upload both... Zip for convenience, installer to make sure folders and the like are set up.
People, with all due respect, you are wasting more time of your life in moaning how bad installers are than what the actual installers would take of your time. This "installer omg omg!!" is a tradition, which spreads around the community with a snowball effect. It's a legacy. Of course an installer is a worse option than a direct exe, but it's not that much worse. It's not the end of the world - it takes seconds to install, seconds to uninstall.
I have used a zipped installer on TDC, and will use it again.
How about we just make it a rule that you need to either use Clickteam's Install Creator, an archive, or just include the EXE. That way if we do have installers, we know they aren't some crappy third party install program like that one with all the adware.
This wont happen though, because it's more work for the admins.
I actually like cecil's idea of simply putting a message next to where you upload a game that says "We strongly recommend not using an installer as your game will receive substantially less downloads"
This would clarify to people who haven't submitted a game before how much people here hate installers. Putting that message in would be easy to do and from there we could guage how much of an impact it's making.
the problem isn't just the extra time and hassle, nor the fact that it puts files on your computer in god knows where, and makes it damned impossible to hunt it down and remove it later, nor that it puts an icon on your desktop or start menu, nor the possibility of ads like that god awful installer on the george bush game. Its a combination of all thats, its the feeling "You don't know what is happening" when you hit install. I will not click install, simply because I do not trust what it is doing with files. It could be copying viruses into hidden parts of my C drive, for all I know. At least if I'm simply unpacking a game, I know all the files are contained in that folder. If you have any files that need to be on the computer in specific addresses besides the ones in your game like fonts or DLLs, than INSTALL THEM AT RUNTIME. Have your game check if a font folder exists and copy the font file into it if its not there. Put the cncs232.dll & cnc32.dll files into your .zip. Don't ever, under any circumstances, include an installer with your game if it weighs less than 200 megabytes.
It's not even like games truly have a viable excuse for using installers anymore.
Lets see:
$AppPath
$AppDir
We can assign extensions associations right inside MMF2.
Any DLL files needed for anything we use, can be sitting right beside the EXE file and work fine.
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Edited by the Author.
There should be a sign when uploading, "Please refrain from using installers if at all possible". And then a little warning on the download page if it does. 
