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LIJI

Flava's Smarter Twin

Registered
  29/08/2006
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  2032

I like penguins
28th June, 2008 at 15:32:19 -

What is wrong with this comic? I find it quite funny. There are tons of these anyway, no one was banned or even warned for making them.

 
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Ski

TDC is my stress ball

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  13/03/2005
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Candy Cane
28th June, 2008 at 15:32:32 -

The hair. It's the wrong shade. That's the problem, you hit it bang on, Roseweave Damn offensive if you ask me.

 
n/a

Roseweave



Registered
  31/07/2007
Points
  341
28th June, 2008 at 15:33:34 -


Originally Posted by LIJI
What is wrong with this comic? I find it quite funny. There are tons of these anyway, no one was banned or even warned for making them.



Because it's offensive in so many ways. If you can't see it then it just proves that this place is heavy in people who've no real sense at all.

I bitched about those comics when I came back too. I wasn't very fond of how people continued to spout shit about me while I was gone, but apparently that wasn't against the rules. Given that, it's not surprising I'm worked up about this.

Image Edited by the Author.

 
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -

http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=1213

"Did you know there's a million bucks hidden in the house next door?"
"But there is no house next door?"
"No? Then let's go build one!"

Knudde (Shab)

Administrator
Crazy?

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  31/01/2003
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  5125

Has Donated, Thank You!Clickzine StaffKlikCast StarVIP MemberGhostbuster!Dos Rules!I donated an open source project
28th June, 2008 at 15:34:55 -


Originally Posted by Roseweave

You provided no reasoning for your "determination". He used a number of heavily weighted phrases that set the mess in motion. You judged me for having a more aggressive tone - which is pure style over substance. You seem to be incapable of understanding whati mean by "aggressor", or at least in determine who one is.



Shroomlocks Comments Below:
Ben wasn't saying his criticism was sacred, he's saying that there isn't a point in arguing about it because you're the creator and he's the player. You obviously made the game the way you thought it was best, so your "disagreement" is already implied. It's not a matter of debate, it's a matter of whether or not you will listen to anyone other than yourself.

He shared his experience with your game, and that's something that can't be debated. I had a really hard time with the controls too, and I stopped playing your game because of that. That's something you can't argue with me about. You can't say "No no, you didn't have a hard time."

You can't argue with someone's personal experience with your game because their experience is what it is, it happened the way it happened and isn't up for debate.

OF COURSE you will disagree with any criticism. But there comes a point when you have to consider what your players are saying simply because they are the players. Will you still disagree when five people have a problem with something? Ten? Twenty?

I like your idea for this game, but the controls made this game unplayable for me. You can either get angry at me for saying that, or consider it as friendly advice from someone who really wants to enjoy the full version of your game.

-

Well, I said before that you would either get angry or listen to what people are trying to tell you. You chose to get angry.

There are a lot of people here who are trying to give you good and much needed help with your game, but you've called people (including me) lazy, out of touch, unreasonable, and apparantley "unable to accept artistic direction". You've also called this entire community "set in it's ways" and not diverse enough for your games. You even finally just came out and said that you're better off just not listening to any criticism. Why are you posting your game here then? To show us how awesome you are?

You've set yourself up on a pretty high pedestal. That would explain why you don't want to listen to anyone, it's because you already consider yourself better than everyone. You're even arrogant enough to tell us that you can debate with us about whether or not we LIKE your game?

Unless you snap out of your bubble, you'd better get used to a small number of downloads.

Everyone here was only trying to help.

-

Look, I wish you the best of luck with future projects. The problem here is that you see people like me as people just trying to bring you down, and that's not true. It makes all of this stuff snowball out of control.

If you'll go back to your project page, there is exactly one thread, started by one person, trying to encourage you.

-

Listen to yourself. I'm moving on dude, you have some things to sort out.

==========

Those are the comments that were made before I spoke up. I should point out that you called him a d*ck by this point. Maybe he wasn't very nice, but I'm not here to make people be nice, I'm here to enforce the rules which are CLEARLY STATED.



You were initially right that I was VERY heated up. In my view, ou don't seem to be the slightest intersted in using reason to resolve a situation, only using it a an excuse to dish out warnings(god knows why). For example, handing out warnings only aggrivated me further. If you had just deleted the offending posts like what happened at one point in the Tutti Fruit thread, I wouldn't be even MORE fired up(and with good reason), and the mess would be gone. It would have been the best solution for EVERYOE. Yes, it takes a couple of minutes to do this, I know. But if you don't do the job properly, you shouldn't have botherd doing anything.



As previously stated, I don't delete comments. That's essentially taking away freedom of speech. You can say what you want, but if it's against the rules, there are consequences. Like the site warnings which essentially do nothing anyway.


Being a moderator should not mean you are absolved from doing a good job. Nor should you take pleasure in punishing people, "Shiny New Warnings" is a very worrying way of putting it.



I'm glad you think I'm doing a bad job. There's other who think that too. Then there are other who think I do a rather good job. If you think I shouldn't be a Mod, then say so. Nothing's stopping you from mailing Rikus or any of the others to get me removed.

That shiny new warnings bit was my expression of frustration that I had to waste a bunch of time reading everything in that section because many people couldn't simply chill out.


If you delete the offending posts it will help make up for what is in my opinion your extremely poor judgment, and it would resolve the situation.



Sorry, I don't delete comments.


Such worded "critcism" should not have been allowed to begin with. It feels demeaning that I have warning because you consider properly moderating the comments section to be "Babysitting".

Even if I was to blame, your resultant actions have aggrivated the situation further. This is completely contrary to what a moderator should be. There was a solution that would have ceased the argument. You did not choose it even when it was pointed out to you. Please swallow your pride and just do the right thing. I am genuinely distressed over this, it happened on my game's download page, whereas they have no similar reason to be acting the way they do.



You have a warning because of your vulgarity and repeated verbal abuse of members. There's a difference between not being nice and abuse.

What's this solution you're talking of? Shroomlock suggested I delete all the comments. They aren't my comments to delete. You guys have delete and edit buttons for a reason. It's not my place to delete your comments.

 
Craps, I'm an old man!

Roseweave



Registered
  31/07/2007
Points
  341
28th June, 2008 at 15:37:32 -


Sorry, I don't delete comments.




Then you don't do your job properly. You fail to put your own unbacked ethics aside for doing what would have kept the peace in that particular instance.

I have no idea how you can even claim to have ethics when you came down by far the hardest on the person who was essentially the underdog. If you weren't prepared to judge the situation properly, you should have left it up to someone who would have done.

 
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -

http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=1213

"Did you know there's a million bucks hidden in the house next door?"
"But there is no house next door?"
"No? Then let's go build one!"

Roseweave



Registered
  31/07/2007
Points
  341
28th June, 2008 at 15:46:25 -


He shared his experience with your game, and that's something that can't be debated.



He used unnecessary, volatile language that would have set off other than people than me too. If you can't crack down
on this, you are useless as a moderator.

Also, I was talking about Ben, not Shroomlock. Calling someone a dick is impersonal as I can
call anyone a dick when they're acting a bit barmy. Shroomlock made personal attacks. Granted he admitted he was harsh,
which was great of him. However, you have yet to admit your judgement was poor, Ben much the same.


I'm here to enforce the rules which are CLEARLY STATED.



There are about 20 different ways you can define "abusing" a person. I would have counted Ben's "boatload of hurt" as
abusive, as well as calling things "basically rubbish" with no or very vague/impractical suggestions as how to improve
them.

No rules are even completely unambiguous. They are not there for you to hide behind.


I'm glad you think I'm doing a bad job. There's other who think that too. Then there are other who think I do a rather good job. If you think I shouldn't be a Mod, then say so. Nothing's stopping you from mailing Rikus or any of the others to get me removed.



I have contacted other mods about this. However given what was allowed to be said abot me in my absence here, I am unsure the others are
much better than you.

Unlike you, I prefer to appeal to reason over power.



That shiny new warnings bit was my expression of frustration



YOUR frustration? I bet you didn't even stop for second to put yourself in my shoes, did you?


because many people couldn't simply chill out.



Because you were unwilling to nip things in bud when it started gettng volatile. Starting out you blamed me and ONLY me.

We are not going to all mutually withdraw the comments. Chances are at least one person will leave theirs there making them

How come I am your member to warn, but they are not your comments to delete? Both are equally in your power as a moderator. How do you distinct these things? From what do you derive your ethics?

Again, warning does nothing except aggrivate things further. You need to take responsibility for your actions. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks of you, however, the fact remains that you aggrivated a situation more than resolving it. You pushed me into taking it on the forums. Even if you blame me for that, you still had a hand in it.

If you apologise and delete the comments, or even just delete the comments, it will be over.

Image Edited by the Author.

 
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -

http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=1213

"Did you know there's a million bucks hidden in the house next door?"
"But there is no house next door?"
"No? Then let's go build one!"

Ricky

loves Left For Dead 2

Registered
  28/12/2006
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  4175

Has Donated, Thank You!Game of the Week WinnerVIP MemberWii OwnerHero of TimeGOTM Winner! - November 2009I am an April Fool
28th June, 2008 at 15:48:54 -


Originally Posted by Roseweave

Originally Posted by LIJI
What is wrong with this comic? I find it quite funny. There are tons of these anyway, no one was banned or even warned for making them.



Because it's offensive in so many ways.

Image Edited by the Author.



The truth is very offensive isn't it. I posted this because this is what you are acting like right now.

 
-

Eternal Man [EE]

Pitied the FOO

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  18/01/2007
Points
  2976

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28th June, 2008 at 15:49:34 -

In ways, this topic reminds me of the storyline article.

 
Eternal Entertainment's Code'n'Art Man

E_E = All Indie


...actually Ell Endie, but whatever.
Image
Image

Knudde (Shab)

Administrator
Crazy?

Registered
  31/01/2003
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Has Donated, Thank You!Clickzine StaffKlikCast StarVIP MemberGhostbuster!Dos Rules!I donated an open source project
28th June, 2008 at 15:50:13 -

We mods get accused of being Nazi's enough without having "burning books" conversations. Deleting comments in the past has pissed off more people than anything else in TDC history. I'm not going to unsay what someone said just because I have mod powers. I'll deal with the backlash, I'm a big boy.

Sorry Roseweave, I don't deal with ultimatums.

Image Edited by an Administrator.

 
Craps, I'm an old man!

Roseweave



Registered
  31/07/2007
Points
  341
28th June, 2008 at 15:54:30 -


Originally Posted by Dr. Ricky

Originally Posted by Roseweave

Originally Posted by LIJI
What is wrong with this comic? I find it quite funny. There are tons of these anyway, no one was banned or even warned for making them.



Because it's offensive in so many ways.

Image Edited by the Author.



The truth is very offensive isn't it. I posted this because this is what you are acting like right now.



And annoyingly, if I called you a dick, I'd probably get warned again.

That comic is based on the presumption that I am without a doubt in the wrong. And now you're pulling this "truth hurts" rubbish as if your poorly concieved comic contains any. It's a strawman of the situation as it reduces it to the point where it doesn't contain any of the important points of the argument. It's ridiculously obnoxious and you should have been ashamed.

It's not "the truth" and that particular depiction of me is offensive enough on it's own. For it to be true you'd first have to prove that I am in the wrong and Knudde is in the right.

 
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -

http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=1213

"Did you know there's a million bucks hidden in the house next door?"
"But there is no house next door?"
"No? Then let's go build one!"

Roseweave



Registered
  31/07/2007
Points
  341
28th June, 2008 at 15:55:40 -


Originally Posted by Knudde (Shab)
We mods get accused of being Nazi's enough without having "burning books" conversations. Deleting comments in the past has pissed off more people than anything else in TDC history. I'm not going to unsay what someone said just because I have mod powers. I'll deal with the backlash, I'm a big boy.

Sorry Roseweave, I don't deal with ultimatums.

Image Edited by an Administrator.



But you'll still pick on the underdog in an argument and feel free to make demontratably poor decisions.

Pathetic.

You are not unsaying anything. It's still been said and people have seen it, like an unlogged IRC convo.

How do you expect the page to continue on with those comments there? Or even with just Ben's commentry there?

I have a good mind to remove the download entirely. It'd be unfair to the people who did offer helpful criticism, but it's what I might have to do.

Image Edited by the Author.

 
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -

http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=1213

"Did you know there's a million bucks hidden in the house next door?"
"But there is no house next door?"
"No? Then let's go build one!"

Knudde (Shab)

Administrator
Crazy?

Registered
  31/01/2003
Points
  5125

Has Donated, Thank You!Clickzine StaffKlikCast StarVIP MemberGhostbuster!Dos Rules!I donated an open source project
28th June, 2008 at 15:58:48 -

Not my fault you broke the rules. Everyone who breaks them in the manner you did gets the same treatment. If shroomie had called you a d*ck, he would have gotten a warning. He didn't, you did. Sorry if you don't like it.

 
Craps, I'm an old man!

Hill Gigas

Reviewing Madman

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  07/06/2004
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28th June, 2008 at 16:01:45 -

I'm going to delete all of my comments from your download page, Roseweave. Anyone who wants to join me can do the same.

 
n/a

Roseweave



Registered
  31/07/2007
Points
  341
28th June, 2008 at 16:03:24 -


Originally Posted by Knudde (Shab)
Not my fault you broke the rules. Everyone who breaks them in the manner you did gets the same treatment. If shroomie had called you a d*ck, he would have gotten a warning. He didn't, you did. Sorry if you don't like it.



It is entirely your decision how to act on them, I already pointed out how ambiguous they are(What do you consider "abuse" of another human being?), not to mention you're part of the people who define them to begin with. Your rules and actions are not some kind of unquestionable creed.

You are, simply put, not doing your job if you are improperly keeping the peace. This is not even my opinion since it goes against what a moderator is intended to be to begin with. Moderating is not about keeping to the rules, it's about taking the best course of action to resolve a situation.

Like it or not, I'm using actual reasoning and you are appealing to your rules. This is the formal fallacy of appeal to force and seems to be about all you have to say. Your argument is weak. I do not see any reason in continuing disucssion with someone with no respect for reason, I can only hope one of the other moderators does have some.

Image Edited by the Author.

 
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -

http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=1213

"Did you know there's a million bucks hidden in the house next door?"
"But there is no house next door?"
"No? Then let's go build one!"

Roseweave



Registered
  31/07/2007
Points
  341
28th June, 2008 at 16:05:39 -


Originally Posted by Shroomlock
I'm going to delete all of my comments from your download page, Roseweave. Anyone who wants to join me can do the same.



Thank you for that. However, I suspect that Ben will not. Not to mention that if the downloads section continues to be improperly policed I can see this happening again with someone else.

 
Check out my Telekinesis'em'up Thread and the ALICE Machines -

http://www.create-games.com/project.asp?id=1213

"Did you know there's a million bucks hidden in the house next door?"
"But there is no house next door?"
"No? Then let's go build one!"
This thread has been locked by an administrator



 



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