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26th August, 2007 at 20:20:34 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504&mode=related&search=

PROOF.

 
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26th August, 2007 at 20:25:05 -

LOL! what morons!

 
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26th August, 2007 at 20:25:27 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zwbhAXe5yk&mode=related&search=

 
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26th August, 2007 at 20:28:52 -

lol, that dude just needs a life... and what accent does he have? I can't actually tell, it's like half American, half Australian...

 
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26th August, 2007 at 20:47:25 -

It's Americans being Americans

 
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26th August, 2007 at 21:09:58 -

Evolution is fake, it didn't happen to us humans as we were based in the image of God straight off.

 
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26th August, 2007 at 21:39:05 -

We spontaneously poofed out of nowhere in a forest filled with plentiful cute furry animals one day.

 
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26th August, 2007 at 22:42:47 -

It doesn't matter how many times their points are countered with hard evidence, they can just create more bizarre reasons why god exists.

It's hard to keep an open mind sometimes. But at least I try.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 00:33:28 -

There is no evolution, Only Chuck Norris decides which animals live and die.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 00:34:34 -

Next on LOLTV: Why the moon landing wasn't real!

 
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27th August, 2007 at 11:03:47 -

Moon landing: real.
Evolution: not.

I grew a new arm yesterday you know what someone said to me the other day? explaining that we have hairy legs because we descend from apes.. I mean seriously, just LISTEN to that so stupid.

Anyways I'm not having another dicussion on this crap, I've said my bit.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 11:05:43 -

Evolution is gonna be one of the biggest jokes in the future, it just doesn't work, and there is no proof.
One kind of animal does not change into another kind of animal.
There has to be intelligence behind energi for it to be used in a creative way.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 11:35:08 -

IRREFUTABLE PROOF!

 
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27th August, 2007 at 12:21:07 -

Humans once lived on a planet for away with an alien race called the Terrexons. However, the Terrexons thought the humans were assholes, so they wiped the memories of all humans, and exiled them to earth. However, traces of their past with the Terrexons still remained in the human minds. To suppress those memories, the Terrexons created religions among the humans. Now the humans would be busy killing eachother over whose religion is right (hint: none of them) and the Terrexons wouldn't have to worry about the humans regaining their memories and returning to invade their planet.



 
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27th August, 2007 at 12:31:49 -


Originally Posted by SilverNova / Tim
Moon landing: real.
Evolution: not.

I grew a new arm yesterday you know what someone said to me the other day? explaining that we have hairy legs because we descend from apes.. I mean seriously, just LISTEN to that so stupid.

Anyways I'm not having another dicussion on this crap, I've said my bit.


lol

 
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27th August, 2007 at 12:53:03 -

I don't trust the moon landing

 
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27th August, 2007 at 13:01:00 -

I don't trust the moon landing either.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 13:29:55 -

You shouldn't either. Moon landings are pure evil.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 13:59:33 -


Originally Posted by SilverNova / Tim
Moon landing: real.
Evolution: not.

I grew a new arm yesterday you know what someone said to me the other day? explaining that we have hairy legs because we descend from apes.. I mean seriously, just LISTEN to that so stupid.

Anyways I'm not having another dicussion on this crap, I've said my bit.




Thats not stupid, we didn't descend from apes. We are apes. The name is 'Primates'. Genetics isn't perfect. Some evolved into humans and some into gorillas and some into monkeys. Depending on the habitat and such and natural selection.

Evolution happens over the course of millions of years, not instantly. You wont find an orangutan giving birth to a human because thats the next step up or anything. It doesn't work like that.

And if evolution is a joke, explain how different animals existed millions of years ago? how did all these new species come to be?

 
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27th August, 2007 at 14:17:32 -


Originally Posted by Phizzy [Ectoprods]
Saying evolution is false implies DNA is too.



Well, no it doesn't. lol.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 14:30:13 -

I thought you were joking, Tim, but you're serious about not believing in evolution? That's just weird. The theory seems as solid as the one about molecules, atoms etcetera.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 15:15:38 -

God created man when he wanked into a petris dish.

People have the right to believe in whatever they want to believe, no matter how stupid, and sensible people have the right to dismiss and laugh at them

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27th August, 2007 at 15:31:58 -

It's funny how people who say evolution isn't real generally don't have a clue what evolution means to start with.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 15:50:33 -

That's not true I have a BSc in science and it lead me to believe that evolution isn't what happened.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 16:07:29 -

Yeah but I just like to insult large groups of people

 
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27th August, 2007 at 16:07:44 -

You can believe in something yet accept the possibility that you might be wrong.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 16:14:27 -


Originally Posted by Dr. James
That's not true I have a BSc in science and it lead me to believe that evolution isn't what happened.



Explain please.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 16:37:34 -

I hate it when people who argue against evolution don't know what they are talking about. I personally don't believe in it, but these videos use flawed arguments.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 17:46:59 -

I'd still like to see some kind of factual reasons on why evolution wouldn't be real, here.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 18:03:46 -

Evolution is a myth started by Jesus.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 18:34:51 -

So I studied him too and he was real.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 19:30:30 -


Originally Posted by Phizzy [Ectoprods]
Saying evolution is false implies DNA is too.



Still like to know why on this one. The majority of people that believe evolution, choose to believe it for the simple fact that if it's true then they can do whatever the hell they want. Believing in evolution is basically a means of saying, "don't know, don't care" we live and we die. Those are the people that choose not to believe in a god because they see what a craphole the world is atm, which it is.

Evolution makes no sense, it was all made up by one guy on the basis that monkey's and humans look a-like. Which they do, on the basis they have hands, feet etc. well done Darwin.

Saying that the bible is a story tale, then basing your entire beliefs on the ideas of a funny scientist seems so hypocritical.

Stephen Hawking believes in a god, and he's suppost to be one of, if not the best scientist on the earth. All science does, is prove and explain how things work in the creation, design and being of the world we live in.

Science doesn't hold all of the answers. Evolution still doesn't disprove a higher power either - how did the apes get there? etc. at some point in time, something was happened and it happened for reason, and here we are. Not by immense luck but on purpose.

Also a statement I liked to bring up in biology classes - no matter how many times you throw a hamster(s) of a building, it/they will not sprout wings and fly. Giraffes were made with long necks, they didn't decide to grow them because they had to reach the leaves higher on the trees! I mean WTF?! lol! Surely over the millions of years this would have supposedly took - the giraffe species would have died out via lack of food! People believe this stuff, and it makes me laugh

If you can actually prove to me that evolution is fact, then ok. But since that's not going to happen, all I have to rely on is logical reasoning and the things I see and do in my everyday life. Evolution was a nice try really, but more and more people are starting to see what crap it is and how none of it makes sense, no matter how you try and meddle some scientific words together.

oh, and whoops - lol:


Anyways I'm not having another dicussion on this crap, I've said my bit.



 
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27th August, 2007 at 19:37:34 -

Lazarus AKA Adam wtf have you started? -_-

 
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27th August, 2007 at 19:38:59 -

annnnnnnd CUE RADIX?

 
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27th August, 2007 at 19:53:02 -

A thread that involves something he doesn't like or believe in (or respect others beliefs in), I'm surprised it's taken this long!

 
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27th August, 2007 at 20:11:34 -


Originally Posted by SilverNova / Tim
Also a statement I liked to bring up in biology classes - no matter how many times you throw a hamster(s) of a building, it/they will not sprout wings and fly. Giraffes were made with long necks, they didn't decide to grow them because they had to reach the leaves higher on the trees! I mean WTF?! lol! Surely over the millions of years this would have supposedly took - the giraffe species would have died out via lack of food! People believe this stuff, and it makes me laugh



The idea is that if all creatures in the world were for some reason to fall from a great height, only the birds or very light creatures would survive. Then all new species would carry on from those that were left over. Only it would have to be a natural thing, not someone throwing them out of a window.

And if the world became flooded, the fish and animals best adapted to water would survive. No one is saying is you drown millions of dogs one will suddenly grow gills.

because that is ridiculous.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 21:59:40 -


Originally Posted by SilverNova / Tim


Still like to know why on this one. The majority of people that believe evolution, choose to believe it for the simple fact that if it's true then they can do whatever the hell they want. Believing in evolution is basically a means of saying, "don't know, don't care" we live and we die. Those are the people that choose not to believe in a god because they see what a craphole the world is atm, which it is.



You don't need to believe in god to be a decent person. I don't need the threat of supernatural post-mortem punishment to try and treat others with respect.


Evolution makes no sense, it was all made up by one guy on the basis that monkey's and humans look a-like. Which they do, on the basis they have hands, feet etc. well done Darwin.


Evolution is based on the theory of descent with modification. Two animals of the same species reproduce, passing along half of each their genes. Mistakes are possible in this process, so the offspring can result with mutant genes. These mutations may allow the offspring a greater chance to survive long enough to reproduce, passing along its genes, fit because it *did* survive. Those less fit to survive in that environment have a smaller chance of passing along their genes, so the population changes over time. If the mutations don't allow the individual to reproduce, the genes are not introduced into the population.


Saying that the bible is a story tale, then basing your entire beliefs on the ideas of a funny scientist seems so hypocritical.


Why is the bible the truth? Because God said so. How do you know god exists? Because the Bible says so. Circular reasoning, while evolution is based on empirical evidence, laboratory studies, fossil records, etc. And it's a gross understatement to imply that evolution as we understand it today is the work of a sole scientist.


Stephen Hawking believes in a god, and he's suppost to be one of, if not the best scientist on the earth. All science does, is prove and explain how things work in the creation, design and being of the world we live in.


Stephen Hawking is a deist. Deists believe that a supernatural force could have created the universe, the laws (physics) that it runs by, but *does not interfere in human affairs*.


Science doesn't hold all of the answers. Evolution still doesn't disprove a higher power either - how did the apes get there? etc. at some point in time, something was happened and it happened for reason, and here we are. Not by immense luck but on purpose.


And what good is gained by using religion as an explanation? I don't understand how it works, therefore...God. Case closed, let's never look at this again. Everything from the medicine that saves your life to the food you eat to the computer you're reading this on now was discovered, invented, or improved through scientific experiments looking to understand the cause and effect of the physical world.

Read Survival of the Sickest by Sharon Moalem for one of the easiest to understand books on the evolution of humans and diseases, including how the evolutionary pressure of the Black Plague has affected humans to this day. Hell of a lot better than I can do.


Also a statement I liked to bring up in biology classes - no matter how many times you throw a hamster(s) of a building, it/they will not sprout wings and fly. Giraffes were made with long necks, they didn't decide to grow them because they had to reach the leaves higher on the trees! I mean WTF?! lol! Surely over the millions of years this would have supposedly took - the giraffe species would have died out via lack of food! People believe this stuff, and it makes me laugh


No one is saying that a hamster will suddenly sprout wings. Evolutionary changes can only be made based on what is already possible based on the species' genes at the time. If for some reason all hamsters are chucked off a cliff after birth, then only the hamsters that can survive such a fall (say, slightly stronger bones or something) will survive to pass along their cliff-surviving genes.

A giraffe-ancestor may have been born with a slightly larger neck than the previous generation, which opened up a new food source. Before, it would have eaten *lower* food, closer to the ground, and had to *compete* with other species for it. The longer neck would give them a new food source, possibly with less competition, so the longer-necked giraffe-ancestors would be more likely to survive long enough to pass on its genes for long necks.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 21:59:46 -


Originally Posted by -Adam-
Lazarus AKA Adam wtf have you started? -_-



I found the videos funny. And Fundies wonder why no one takes them seriously.

I don't see any reason why God and Evolution can't co-exist. But that's just me. I don't care what anyone else thinks, really.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 22:59:32 -

I hate these threads because the replies take an hour to read and they're usually saturated with bias.

 
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27th August, 2007 at 23:06:07 -

I hate these kinds of threads because 95% of the people argueing against evolution are trolls, and the other 5% are tarded. Don't feed them

 
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27th August, 2007 at 23:20:16 -

They might feed themselves. Watch your cookies mr. monster.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 00:13:16 -

I wonder when some facts start coming in, rather than "WTF is up with that?".

 
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28th August, 2007 at 00:26:50 -

fact 1) no one can live for a million years, so no one can observe/ prove evolution
fact 2) no one has witnessed creation, so creation can't be proven
fact 3) Evolutionists believe that the fossil record proves evolution
fact 4) Christians believe the fossil were made in a sudden catastrophic event, known as the flood of Noah

fact 5) I am biased, and i believe in God.

In my opinion, the number 1 argument against evolution is irreducible complexity. Random mutation is only harmful and never creates a new species before it kills it. This follows the law of physics which states that the natural state of everything is disorder. Things break and don't fix themselves.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 00:28:23 -

Well, to be honest, god was the answer to everything in the medieval period. Before that, with the greeks, was substance. We're not quite in the middle ages, which is why I don't understand why people stick so hard to religion.
And although everyone has the right to believe in what they will, I find that video to be extremely insulting. The guy compares a sealed, sterile environment, inside holding only peanut butter, with the world and all of its components and resources. Let alone the fact that there need pass millions of years before a visible lifeform develops, a sealed peanut butter vase is hardly the most suitable environment.

 

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28th August, 2007 at 02:04:37 -


Originally Posted by Ricky Garces
no one can live for a million years, so no one can observe/ prove evolution


Evolution has been observed in action on the microbial scale. An example: When you have a bacterial infection and take antibiotics, it kills off those bacteria that are vulnerable to the drug. Due to genetics and mutations (which occur much faster on a microbial scale, due to the much quicker rate of reproduction), some individual bacteria are more resistant to antibiotics than others. As the treatment continues, a greater percentage of the diminishing bacteria population is of the resistant mutants. That is why doctors tell patients to stay on an antibiotic regimen for a certain time. If the treatment stops early, then the regrowing colony will be predominantly antibiotic-resistant at a point where the body's own defenses would be not enough to quickly wipe out the bacteria.

The antibiotics applied an evolutionary pressure to the bacteria, killing out the non-resistant members. Bacteria can pass the gene for antibiotic resistance, gained through random mutation, to their offspring. Since the bacteria resistant to antibiotics are more likely to survive long enough to reproduce in the presence of antibiotics, the next generation of bacteria will have a greater number of antibiotic resistant bacteria. That's evolution.


In my opinion, the number 1 argument against evolution is irreducible complexity.


This argument says that there are aspects of life that could only have emerged fully-formed, an event so unlikely that a creator must have caused it. Disregarding the apparent oversight of how complex such a creator would be (logically resulting in infinitely recursive polytheism), scientists have demonstrated earlier forms of practically every example of irreducible complexity creationists have thrown at them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity#Response_of_the_scientific_community

Random mutation is only harmful and never creates a new species before it kills it.


If a random mutation is that harmful, then the individual doesn't survive to reproduce, so the new genes don't filter into the population. No harm done to the species as a whole. Random mutations that don't kill the species, or don't affect the ability to procreate, stay in the gene pool. At a future time, those variations may prove to change an individual's fitness in that changed environment.

This follows the law of physics which states that the natural state of everything is disorder. Things break and don't fix themselves.


The second law of thermodynamics is entropy, that the universe tends toward disorder. That does not mean every single aspect tends to disorder. For instance, stars fuse hydrogen atoms together into heavier elements, and scientists have been able to synthesize amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) using nothing but primordial earth conditions and materials.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 02:06:49 -

For a start, I don't believe in God. That doesn't imply that I believe in the big bang and such, though I think evolution is a very reasonable theory. I think Noyb's post put best pretty much how I feel about all this.

I don't have a problem with Christians expressing their beliefs, but saying no evolution is wrong it says in this book is what frustrates me.

Also lol at the vids .

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28th August, 2007 at 02:23:49 -


Originally Posted by SilverNova / Tim

Originally Posted by Phizzy [Ectoprods]Saying that the bible is a story tale, then basing your entire beliefs on the ideas of a funny scientist seems so hypocritical.



What and what not would be part of the bible was in fact decided by a COMMITTEE of early christians. But that's a different discussion.


Originally Posted by Noyb
Originally Posted by Ricky Garces
no one can live for a million years, so no one can observe/ prove evolution


Evolution has been observed in action on the microbial scale. An example: When you have a bacterial infection and take antibiotics, it kills off those bacteria that are vulnerable to the drug. Due to genetics and mutations (which occur much faster on a microbial scale, due to the much quicker rate of reproduction), some individual bacteria are more resistant to antibiotics than others. As the treatment continues, a greater percentage of the diminishing bacteria population is of the resistant mutants. That is why doctors tell patients to stay on an antibiotic regimen for a certain time. If the treatment stops early, then the regrowing colony will be predominantly antibiotic-resistant at a point where the body's own defenses would be not enough to quickly wipe out the bacteria.

The antibiotics applied an evolutionary pressure to the bacteria, killing out the non-resistant members. Bacteria can pass the gene for antibiotic resistance, gained through random mutation, to their offspring. Since the bacteria resistant to antibiotics are more likely to survive long enough to reproduce in the presence of antibiotics, the next generation of bacteria will have a greater number of antibiotic resistant bacteria. That's evolution.



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28th August, 2007 at 02:56:32 -

um, that proves micro evolution, which i believe in. I believe in changes within a species Ex. different breeds of dog. I just don't think its possible to change from one species to another.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 03:05:22 -


Originally Posted by Noyb

Originally Posted by Ricky Garces



lol

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28th August, 2007 at 03:22:22 -

Well said Noyb.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 05:49:01 -

Hehe, there's not a lot of point here. Black may as well be white in these kind of threads, so I'm not going to sit here and disprove/question evolution any more. We believe what we believe really - if you believe we descend from apes then kk, I don't really care.

Personally I think it takes more faith to believe that we are all 'randomly created' and chance makes us what we are, than an almighty power (god) purposed all of this. But meh

 
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28th August, 2007 at 05:57:32 -


Originally Posted by The New And Improved Super-Lazarus

I don't see any reason why God and Evolution can't co-exist. But that's just me. I don't care what anyone else thinks, really.



All the Catholic folks I know believe in evolution and the big bang, the latter of which they say 'well what caused the big bang?'. Religion and beliefs aren't black and white and some folk are quite progressive with it all. I believe in evolution and the big bang and I'm an agnostic.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 07:05:52 -

Phizzy, in case you haven't seen the videos still, the 'scientist' claims that because no external life force grows inside an unopened peanut butter jar, there's no way Evolution could exist. The second was just gay.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 08:19:52 -

There comes a point when arguing against God and Intelligent Design becomes pointless - the only way to win over these fools is by pointing and laughing.

HAHAHAHAHAH, I laugh at you Tim with your tiny mind.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 10:17:00 -

I have an IQ of 137

 
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28th August, 2007 at 10:35:50 -

Actually, yeah I do, funnily enough. kthnxbai

 
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28th August, 2007 at 10:49:08 -

What has that got to do with anything Tim. In reality, the very fact you brought up that little stat proves how foolish you can be.

You really should know that IQ counts for nothing, anywhere, ever.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 11:01:15 -

Religious arguments on the internet suck. No group will ever convince the other.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 11:13:34 -

Agreed. But when we cull the religious, that will no longer be a problem.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 11:14:07 -

"tiny mind"

I don't like it when people insult my intelligence Matt. I know IQ's don't prove a lot, nor really, do any qualifications. It doesn't show potential either. Just don't accuse me of being narrow/tiny minded?

 
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28th August, 2007 at 11:17:51 -

I think you don't need me to prove how narrow your mind is, you do that yourself. <-- (this smiley means you can disregard any hostility shown in a post)

 
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28th August, 2007 at 11:20:14 -

lol, people insulting eachother on internet forums.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 14:51:42 -

Matt - you're a cool, funny guy. Don't allow me to change my mind, yeah?

 
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28th August, 2007 at 15:25:09 -

It is if the foundations of your life are based on my opinions :\

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28th August, 2007 at 17:35:07 -

Lol, a friend linked me to it on MSN today, and it seemed appropriate to include I must've seen that in like... 1999?

 
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28th August, 2007 at 17:50:39 -


Originally Posted by SilverNova / Tim
Hehe, there's not a lot of point here. Black may as well be white in these kind of threads, so I'm not going to sit here and disprove/question evolution any more. We believe what we believe really - if you believe we descend from apes then kk, I don't really care.

Personally I think it takes more faith to believe that we are all 'randomly created' and chance makes us what we are, than an almighty power (god) purposed all of this. But meh



You haven't dis proven anything.
In fact it looks to me like you have a 'I'm so clever i don't even need to waste my time proving people wrong' attitude.

You need some substance to your arguments otherwise you will look like a fool.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 18:07:45 -

Hmm, the old "refute the purpose of arguing because your own argument is weak" defence, good spot Andy.

"Personally I think it takes more faith to believe that we are all 'randomly created" - who said anything about random? In fact, evolution is no dispute of Godly origin, only Christian Godly origin (i hate dat cristyan godli orrigin). Something could have made life, but it's my belief (and should be yours) that life has evolved and continues to evolve.

For example, it's a known fact that the majority of African Americans have intolerance to cow's milk. Europeans on the other hand (I don't know bout no Asians) have no such intolerance - this is due to evolution. Europeans evolved to tolerate cow's milk because it was a vital food-source.

Also, human skin colour evolves too. Why else do you think black people are black (well, brown) and white people are white (well, peach)? And do they stop being these colours when they live in hotter or colder places? No - they have evolved and carry the genes of their fore-fathers, who had good skin colour for the area they lived in.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 18:24:02 -

"so I'm not going to sit here and disprove/question evolution any more"

*going to disprove
*or question any more

Right, *Mario voice* "Here we gooo!"

What annoys me is people that haven't even read the bible, let alone understand any of it, tell others about what they think is basically in it and what it says, and then discard it as any historical, physical and literal evidence that it contains. It's all part of that 'dont know, dont care' attitude. To me, evolution stands for ignorance. I'm going to say a large percentage of people here haven't read the bible and/or understand what it says and explains - and that large percentage go with the flow and believe in the evolution theory. Those are the people that haven't researched both sides of the story to draw a fair comparison or decide for themselves - that's what bugs me really. I could choose to believe evolution, but to me it just doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so to me it just remains an idea, as it basically... still is! It is still just a theory, it hasn't been proven although people like to think so. It's not a fact! The way people explain that it is a fact is by explaining the theory behind it, as for evidence, there is none.

And for the people that have actually researched and studied and looked in to both sides of the story here with an open mind in both cases and still decide to believe in evolution - then that's up to them! As it is up to me, too.

At the end of the day, it's down to what you choose to believe. That comes down to opinion, and since one's opinion cannot be wrong (reasonably speaking) then what's the point? I'm not going to continue because I'm not going to convince anyone here of being in the wrong, nor are they ever going to convince me. It's just the way it goes.

I'm a very open minded person, I once considered evolution - but chose not to believe it for many long and strenuous reasons as to which determine my views on life. I don't want to sit here typing out essays of stuff trying to show people why evolution is a load of complete crap, as I have better things to do. As I'm sure you all probably have better things to do than sit and read it anyways!

So what's the point? That's what I'm saying Andy. Let us strangers stop having a dig at eachother about what to believe when it's up to every individuals' choice based on what they choose to believe is factual.

 
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28th August, 2007 at 18:32:00 -

Although it's an interesting topic and everyone is entitled to their own opinion - I'm going to lock this thread now simply because it's turning into an argument rather than a discussion. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and everything.

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28th August, 2007 at 18:32:13 -

Administrative Message: This topic has been locked.

 
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