Usually I've only used installers for some of my larger games, like Diamond: Revolution which came at over 20MB, other then that... I would much rather using ZIP or RAR (both me and other people) for the main reason... I would much rather be able to just try out the game and then remove it. I dont feel like wasting 30 seconds of my time, just to uninstall a game I had on my computer for 5 minutes and got bored. Rarely do click games have such a high last ability that people would much rather keep the game on their PC. Another thing I hate is the EXE zips; you know... the one that unzip everything into a temp folder that you can almost NEVER find!
This post only says that not everyone likes installers.
I downloaded that cool cave game with freakingly low resolution. And it had an installer.. and the uninstaller seemed to work how it should. But what if it didn't, you know what i mean?
Even if the game it's good, I usually don't want to keep it on the add/remove programs, thing, wich is already crowded as it is.
Also someone said something about games getting on a cd cover - when you make your cd, do it how you like it. I'm talking about Download-Try-Delete method.
Zip files are fucking stupid for games. You canīt even create a shortcut with it. I dont wanīt dozen of zipfiles at my desktop. I donīt want to be bothered to manually create the folders to extract them. I donīt want to be bothered to manually handle all this stuff. And of course i donīt want my users to bother with such stuff. Because i know my guys. Give them two buttons and they click the wrong one in 90% of all cases.
And again: your registry isnīt harmed by an installer. Not more than by creating a normal folder besides the uninstall shield.
You want to keep your files together? Use an installer for games. The alternative is to create ONE exe with no external files. Then, agreed, an installer makes no sense. But also a zipfile then...
"But it shows that the creator is a bit more experienced and doesnīt simply use a zipfile."
That's defintely no bull. For me seeing a klik game that uses a zipfile screams 'NOOOOOB' to me. Not able to handle such a simple thing like an installer. What will the game be then. Poor soul ...
And again: your registry isnīt harmed by an installer. Not more than by creating a normal folder besides the uninstall shield
You canīt even create a shortcut with it.
I don't want a shortcut. If I did, I'd make one myself. It takes less time to extract a zip and right-click-drag a new shortcut than it does to click through an installer, and it doesn't fill up my whole screen. An installer wastes my time and more often than not creates multiple icons I have to delete. If you're scripting the installer not to create icons, or fuck with the registry, or place any files in system directories, then you do not need an installer and doing so because it makes you look more 'professional' is fucking idiotic. That's the reason noobs constantly use installers rather than zips, because they think it looks professional. It does not. As I said, it's becoming the standard now for professionally-designed software to favour extractors or a discreet NSIS over installers unless it's necessary.
You want to keep your files together? Use an installer for games. The alternative is to create ONE exe with no external files. Then, agreed, an installer makes no sense. But also a zipfile then...
Are you incapable of reading? In almost any situation that precludes the use of an archive, an extractor is a better choice than an installer.
I've always been very anti-installer, but Radix is explaining all my reasoning with far more venom than I ever could.
One thing that I've always liked about Macs (and trust me, there are very few of those things) is that the applications are almost entirely self-contained - for the most part, dragging a program onto your computer installs it and dragging it to the bin deletes it. MMF programs have the capability to be like that, if they're packaged as a single folder inside a ZIP.
To extract such a zipped folder, it's a matter of dragging the folder out of the compressed folder window and into my GFGames directory. (It still hasn't been renamed after about six years.) If the game comes in an installer, I have to drag it out and then run the installer, telling it where I want things to go - something that is done in a drag and drop step otherwise.
That's not a huge bother, but it's when the default GFactory installer is used that it really gets to me. By default it tries to put things in c:\windows\, which is more than a little insulting. People say that it's only a few clicks to install a game, but when the few clicks could be replaced by a simple drag and drop, it's a comparatively vast overhead.
"For me seeing a klik game that uses a zipfile screams 'NOOOOOB' to me. Not able to handle such a simple thing like an installer. What will the game be then. Poor soul ..."
Yes, just like you said, anyone can make an installer. It's so simple. That's one of the reasons all noobs use installers; because it's as easy as ticking a box when you build it, or by using install maker (Which is so easy even GameMaker users use it, and they should be the definition of noobishness). It's so easy even a noob can do it, it's so cheap, thus the noobishness of using installers for klik games.
If you want to distribute your games on CDs, then do so with an installer, fine. But when you download stuff, in 90% of the cases, you want to delete it quickly after use. Using an installer for a downloadable klik game is just fucktarded.
Still, running out of arguments is no reason to start to flame. I think itīs you that simply cannot read nor understand what others say. Simply shout louder doesnīt make an argument true ...
Oh my, Uninstall shield creates one registry entry. Whoah! Bloody hell, this will explode the whole thing ...
Radix, maybe YOU donīt want a shortcut. But when you want to provide your game sucessfully you need to make it as easy as possible for all your users. You simply cannot bother a standard pc user to tinker around with zipfiles which possibly never have heard anything about MMF nor zipfiles. And thatīs the mainclient. Most of them knows how to turn on the PC. And are able to use an installer. But thatīs it in most cases.
And thatīs the reason why an installer doesnīt look more professional, but IS more professional.
Again, at least when your game goes to a cover cd at a game magazine you need an installer. I have never seen a zipped game at a cover cd. My games are at cover cdīs. What about yours?
Repeating wrong statements doesnīt make them more true. I donīt know where you heard this strange rumour that professionals mainly use a zipfile to provide their software. It is simply not true. Tell me one who does this, and i tell you tenhousands for each that uses installers for their products.
Tell me about your problems with installers, and i tell you hundrets of problems with zipfiles. Mainproblems:
-hey, the zipfile is empty (while the stupid inbuild windows zip module simply fails to show the content. Zipsoftware opens it fine)
-hey, it doesnīt download (while the oh so well experienced user has chosen to download with "open" instead "save as".)
-hey, the zipfile is passwordprotected (while the zipfile is in fact NOT passwordprotected. Still searching for the reason for that)
-hey, which file in the zip is the correct one? (the oh so well experienced user and more than one choice, you know ... )
I received lots of mails in the past with such kind of trouble when it comes to zipfiles. But in received not a single one that was installer related.
I stay with my opinion, based at experience : when anyone can make an installer, he definitely should. Zipfile is a bad choice to provide a game. Just noobs bothers users with zipfiles. But thatīs just my private opinion, which you donīt have to share ...
Tiles, I think you are the only person with that view.
Installers very often leave folders in windows or program files directories after uninstalling the game. That makes a mess that I don't want on my pc. It's just a lot more convenient to have a game in a zip folder than an installer. Not profesionally but for downloaded freeware. There are so many games to choose from that a slight inconvenience like and installer can be enough to turn someone away altogether.
Also ive tried loads of games that don't make a shortcut on the desktop so i have to search for the thing to try it out, not good.
I don't know what cd's you own, but I see a lot of installers and zip archives on cd's that I own. There isn't a major problem with people not knowing what the heck zip files are because it's usually explained how to open them and a copy of winzip or winrar is usually on the cd is needed. Windows xp users can uncompress zip files without it anyway.
You know, I have to say that Tiles made a point there - you have to assume that the majority of users do not have a clue what they're doing. In the context of this community it's not a problem (with ZIP files, at least, as we all know how to use them), but if your game is for a wide audience such as one for a magazine coverdisc, they're probably going to expect it to install and extract itself.
But then he said that Just noobs bothers users with zipfiles and messed things up a bit again. I "bother user with zipfiles" so that they have the convenience of a drag-and-drop program. I don't think that that's bothering them.
If you're making a game only for the community, then just zip it. Else, use an installer. Or, maybe the best solution, let people choose; upload both installer and zip versions.
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