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Assault Andy

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5th October, 2005 at 03:40:53 -

I really do not like installers. There's something about having to install a game an uninstall it that annoys me. The way they spam your computer with icons and shortcuts frustrates me , especially when I know that I will only be playing the game once or twice. That's probably the main problem, small games. You know the ones you play just to kill time and not for hardcore gaming. Many games on TDC are like that and should not be installerized (That's why I like them, they're arcade-ish).

Installers turn me off playing many games, I would probably play the 'less creative' games more if they didn't have installers.

Okay so after all this ranting, you probably want to know what I do like. Please next time you make a game can you zip or rar it. This allows for me to know exactly where every file is, and allows simple deletion of the game.

IMO The only time installers should be used is for shareware, or large games\applications. Thank you, opinions are welcome.

 
Creator of Faerie Solitaire:
http://www.create-games.com/download.asp?id=7792
Also creator of ZDay20 and Dungeon Dash.
http://www.Jigxor.com
http://twitter.com/JigxorAndy

David Newton (DavidN)

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5th October, 2005 at 05:02:31 -

I'd have to agree with you there - there's no need for an installer if the game only comes in one directory with subdirectories, as most Click games do. My preference is for submissions to come in ZIP or RAR files that contain one "gamename" directory so that it can just be dragged out to my Click Games folder (and, hopefully not too soon later, to the Recycle Bin).

 
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Crystal Clear (H.E.S)

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5th October, 2005 at 06:01:57 -

I completely agree with you AA, Zip > Installer.

 
HES homepage:
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AndyUK

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5th October, 2005 at 08:25:13 -

They are only a minor annoyance for me. However sometimes I delete an installer because i didn't really want to play the game much anyway.

Everyone in the know, agrees. Installers < er not using Installers.

 
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axel

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5th October, 2005 at 09:18:06 -

I agree. There are so many noob games on this site that have installers. I just hate it when i download a game, and have to go through the long and annoying process of installing it, and then i realize it's the worst noobiest game ever, and then i have to uninstall it and stuff. I hate it!

 
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axel

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5th October, 2005 at 09:22:13 -

with 'long and annoying process of installing it' i mean that it's long and annoying compared to just opening the zip archive. My machine is not THAT crap

 
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Dr. James MD

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5th October, 2005 at 09:49:05 -

oh its this topic again!

well for people who use external files in their games and then get emails off random strangers saying that "moan moan your game doesn't work" because they didn't extract certain files... i use installers because of people like that. and only on games more than 10mb (an extra 5 bytes isn't really going to effect bandwidth much, if you're on limited bandwidth that is).

to this day i still get emails off people complaining that the zip version of TOR doesnt work. you cant bloody win can you.

 
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DeadmanDines

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5th October, 2005 at 13:43:37 -

I don't personally mind installers, possibly because I don't play games that much so they don't get a chance to annoy me.

I can understand the annoyance if absolutely every tiny game needed an installer though.

Most of my games need installers because I'm a big fan of external files (i prefer having lots of things in subapps and ccn files, I find it easier to manage).

The way I get around this is by building the game as a project and getting it to include all its files within itself. It's often simpler to do that, since you don't need to do all the 'appdir$' malarcy to access the files.

It means your game won't even need the dll.

It also compresses nicely I found. In one case the exe with the DLL built in was smaller than the exe with no dll.

 
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X_Sheep

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5th October, 2005 at 13:54:26 -

I can live with installers if it's a professional or large game/application. As long as it's not the built-in one.

Install Maker/Creator > Only when it's good enough
Built-in installer in .zip file > Meh
Built-in installer in directory in .zip file > Instant downvote

 
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Phredreeke

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5th October, 2005 at 15:55:52 -

How about self-extracters?

 
- Ok, you must admit that was the most creative cussing this site have ever seen -

Make some more box arts damnit!
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Klikmaster

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5th October, 2005 at 17:30:53 -

Ok, istallers are usually bad, but even worse whe they are done crappily and the uninstall doesnt uninstall everythin, i.e. leaves start menu folders

 
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Retired Kliker Lazarus

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5th October, 2005 at 18:13:06 -

I think this whole thing is so stupid.

How hard is it to install a game?! OH MY GOD! ONLY ONE MORE STEP! I CAN'T GO ON! KILL ME! KILL ME!

^
End rant.

Sorry, but this is really stupid. It's not that hard to uninstall. It's the Gfactory installers I hate just because they're so usless.

I usually delete a game after I beat it...or even after I play it once.

P.S. Didn't Jonny RPG come with an installer, Jonny...? :?



 
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Dr. James MD

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5th October, 2005 at 18:18:14 -

its a little bit sad to hear the comments here. you get people working flat out months, even years on a big click game only to not bother playing the game because instead of 5 or so clicks draggin it into a new folder you press Next a few times.
what a pathetic state of mind. i gotta say.

 
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Retired Kliker Lazarus

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5th October, 2005 at 18:25:35 -

What he said, yo!

 
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Crystal Clear (H.E.S)

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6th October, 2005 at 00:46:47 -

Lazarus: Its not about a few extra clicks at all, its about shortcuts being installed everywhere, items being created in the start menu, being installed in its own directory.

Having lots of External files doesn't change it a bit at all, theres no reason why you can't use an Zip with external files. If you have one or 1000 different External files, it doesnt matter Zip works fine and no different from an Installer.
You just Have a main game folder, inside consists of Sub folders (Graphics, Sound, Music, Data) and Access it Via AppDrive$+AppDir$.

With a Zip, you just double-click on it, unzip.
The game is unzipped to your unzipped directory, you know where it is, its easy to find the folder, its easier to manage and delete.
With Installers, for one most of them dont even compress as good, They install things to numerous places you dont know about, things are scattered across your computer.
Its messy, inefficient and useless.

If your game is Huge (25MB and Up) use an Installer if you really want to, if your selling it, Installer ofcourse.

But if your putting your game on TDC, for people to play, atleast make it hassle-free for them.

You may think its flashy and looks professional, really nobody gives a crap, what they do give a crap about is playing your game.

 
HES homepage:
http://www.distinctiv-efair.com/heretic/studios
Crystal Clear Productions: http://www.distinctiv-efair.com/heretic/crystalclear

Assault Andy

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6th October, 2005 at 02:25:08 -

With zips you are in control, you know where every file is. And extracting files into the wrong places is easily overcome by using AppDrive$+AppDir$ like Crystal said.

If you really must, release both versions.

 
Creator of Faerie Solitaire:
http://www.create-games.com/download.asp?id=7792
Also creator of ZDay20 and Dungeon Dash.
http://www.Jigxor.com
http://twitter.com/JigxorAndy

DeadmanDines

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6th October, 2005 at 04:59:36 -

"its a little bit sad to hear the comments here. you get people working flat out months, even years on a big click game only to not bother playing the game because instead of 5 or so clicks draggin it into a new folder you press Next a few times.
what a pathetic state of mind. i gotta say."


Jimmi: I think the comments here are refering to small games, not the large ones like Eternal Daughter. What they mean is these small little games that people put on the DC that really shouldn't NEED an installer, all they do is create some folders and install the DLL file.

I think people should just be more aware of the need to run a game instantly. Arcade games can get away with coming in a single executable exe file, so avoid installerising them.

 
191 / 9999 * 7 + 191 * 7

Dr. James MD

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6th October, 2005 at 08:40:27 -

so once more we reach the same conclusion that for big games installers are okay but not for small games?

huzzah! wake me up when this topic comes around again.

 
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On the sixth day God created Manchester
"You gotta get that sand out your vaj!" x13
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X_Sheep

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6th October, 2005 at 09:42:53 -

Self-extractors are nice. Just don't put them in a .zip file

 
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Retired Kliker Lazarus

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6th October, 2005 at 12:03:26 -

I can't stand Gfactory installers, but that's about it.

 
Fine Garbage since 2003.
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Mr Icekirby



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6th October, 2005 at 21:27:55 -

Installers can cause things to be installed everywhere. It can cause problems. The biggest problem is when installers do CNCS32.DLL and CNCS232.DLL and kill the nice new version. Version checking is a biggie. Also people just don't know how to do visually appealing installers. Small games, yes, should be zipped though.

 
Mr Icekirby says so!
OBEY ME!

DeadmanDines

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7th October, 2005 at 17:01:02 -

Yeah, Icekirby makes a good point.

In my experience making installers in MMF is childsplay. You zip the game contents and build a program that will extract the zip file to a certain location.

You then build the zip file into the application. Voila. No DLLs or zip files, just a single exe (and a pretty nice lookin' one too).

The main use is to enable you to make the installer use the same interface and colour scheme as the game. It looks sweeter.

 
191 / 9999 * 7 + 191 * 7

Muz



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17th October, 2005 at 00:52:14 -

Installers are ok. Personally, I find installing a game actually easier than bothering to find a place to put it, then deleting it later on. HOWEVER, it's not the same case when you don't want to delete the game.

I think that game developer peoples should just include an installer version as well as a non-installer copy of their game, and see which one people click on more .

 
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.

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Dr. James MD

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17th October, 2005 at 06:41:25 -

Checking my webstats...
/games/setupTOR.exe 180749
/games/tor.zip 446

 
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j--8iXVv2_U
On the sixth day God created Manchester
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Assault Andy

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17th October, 2005 at 07:39:51 -

It might have something to do with the fact that you only link to the setupfile on your website, apart from if the reader clicks "Read More" on the games page link.

 
Creator of Faerie Solitaire:
http://www.create-games.com/download.asp?id=7792
Also creator of ZDay20 and Dungeon Dash.
http://www.Jigxor.com
http://twitter.com/JigxorAndy

Dr. James MD

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17th October, 2005 at 08:41:05 -

at the same time i get a huge chunk more visits to the TOR page itself, sites link to that rather than the big games list page.

 
Image
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j--8iXVv2_U
On the sixth day God created Manchester
"You gotta get that sand out your vaj!" x13
www.bossbaddie.com
   

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