Seeing the topic on the new challenger to Clickteam software, I began to ask myself where Click is going?
I pretty much stopped clicking about 3 years ago because I was getting really frustrated with the limitations of this type of software: most of the time you spend hours doing an unstable workaround to replace a function that SHOULD be there.
Of course the competition is always good, for Clickers' all around the globe. I am personally dissapointed with Clickteam because they make huge profit out of a relitavely small update (MMF 1.5 -> MMF 2 for example) and have killed the community. I remember there used to be load of people, even french guys around here (Clickteam are French are they not?) but they've all dissappeared.
Don't get me wrong, Click is a great tool for learning the basics of programming, and I am grateful because it gave me thirst for knowlege and made me love programming (and get 75% on my degree ).
But do any of you see a future for yourselves AFTER clicking?
tel them i hav a diz33z.
tel them i hav...
SUP3R CANSIR!
Well I don't see myself moving on simply because MMF2 isn't as brilliant as everyone hoped it might be.
Finding workarounds for things that don't work properly is all part of programming anyway isn't it?
Do you see yourself moving away from clicking and learning a programming language?
And i agree, finding workarounds is part of programming, but often workarounds are simply not possible with MMF, and some one has to make an Extension to add to the life of MMF, and now the SDK for MMF is no longer available on the Clickteam website!!??
GG Clickteam... ^^
tel them i hav a diz33z.
tel them i hav...
SUP3R CANSIR!
I use mmf to make quick crap and to have fun... So I wont move away from click A programing language lacks the speed and ease in development that mmf has.
Well i know my limits, i rarely try to push MMF2 in any way. So it's all good for me. In fact i was never really bothered by TGF either despite others complaining about the 256 object limit.
I have done some programming in my time and i feel that unless i really wanted to spend months or even years on one thing i'm not even considering moving on. (because i'd have to get used to the language first.
Honestly I regret having bought mmf2.
I'm really tired of it's limitations, no 3d, no hardware acceleration, and one of it's strong points, vitalize, isn't released yet.
Hopefuly construct will make klikteam open their eyes.
Well Klik gave me the impetus to study computer game design at uni, but I haven't really done much clicking in a while. I prefer much more to concentrate on certain aspects of game design, like GFX and music, and I struggle with the events and physics because they are so time-consuming.
Unfortunately I think this is the beginning of the end of the click community. Clickteam have made little to no major improvements to their products, and potential new customers are being driven away.
Having read other topics, it's amazing to see how many people started clicking because of the free copies given away in magazines. Do they not do this any more? I think a slimmed down version of TGF2 should be handed out in these magazines to bolster popularity and hopefully drag the community out of the bog that it is in.
I'm satisfied with MMF2. Compared with MMF 1.5, it's a great improvement with layers and stuff. It rarely ever crashes either (compared with MMF 1.5's crash-happy tendancies).
But yea, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!! YEEEEEEHEEEHEHEHEHEE!!!!!
I've been a tgf user since dunno, maybe 5 years or so then I buy mmf2 just to find out they are just about the same.
And talking about crashes, a few months ago I had to restart a project from scratch just cos mmf2 found a bad object in the file. http://www.create-games.com/forum_post.asp?id=185641
I have been planning to stop clicking for years, but somehow I am still doing it, especially since I got MMF2. I am not really into making freeware games anymore because the freeware scene is filled with cocky talentless nitpickers that make me feel bad about something that is supposed to make me feel good, but using it in the classroom is really starting to work out for me. I am planning to go semi-commercial with that after a lot of experimenting.
I don't think I will ever move on to something else, I am not a coder at all.
Yeah fishhead world tour would have been awesome had you actually finished it. I'm sure you can make a much better game now given your added experience.
Actually, I moved from klik to other things, then moved back to klik. It's needs much less coding than all the other programming languages. I just don't like how much clicking (no pun intended) you have to do.. I like programming languages because you can just type it all in one page, no need to click 3 times just to change each small typo in the event editor. Klik would be so much better if it was Type and Play.. I actually tried to make a scripting engine just to avoid all that clicking
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I am actually working on a game, I am gonna try not to be out of ideas after 3 levels this time.
Making games itself doesn't make me feel bad at all. It's things like a dude abusing his admin powers to post my girlfriends IP address just because he didn't like my games. When you are 24 and some fat teenager does that to you it really makes you wonder what you are still doing there, and honestly making games was just as much fun when I didn't have the internet.
I don't honestly see myself moving beyond MMF or other extremely high-level game creation software. My days of having the time to figure out a new programming language are over, and I just want the quickest possible way to get my ideas into a playable form. Having said that, I finally gave BlitzMAX a proper trial a few months ago and was very impressed with its sprite handling capabilities.
You didn't have to make them, you could've just been looking through a list of every TDC member ever. I'm fairly certain you'd do that. You are weird and pathetic.
I'm talking about the one announced before MMF2, when we just knew something "new" was coming. I always stop listening at the most important times loal.
I remember Clickteam were seriously planning to make some kind of MMF 3D but Francois said (in 2002) that it wasn't going to be anything more than a basic 3D world editor and some built-in movements. I'd like to assume that they've since scrapped that idea because it was only going to disappoint people. I don't know what they're planning now, but maybe we'll find out soon!
I lolled at AsparagusTrevor's first comment and totally agree with his second one. If it were a one-or-the-other choice, I'd much rather have hardware acceleration and pixel shader effects than a basic 3D app. In fact, I'm rather dreading the day when this site gets flooded with the first few hundred MMF 3D games..
I think that MMF2 just needs to be improved and that clickteam need to listen to the community. They also REALLY need to promote MMF2, TGF2 etc. Because just about everyone here began using Klik stuff before MMF2.
But Hardware Acceleration is a big feature for us now and some fast (and better) effects would be nice.
MMF2's pretty useful, I haven't had any trouble with it, except with minor things. Usually you can make a custom engine or whatever to work round the bugs.
I don't know if it's afordable to clickteamnow, but that idea of sticing a slimmed down copy of TGF2 in PCGamer or something would hugely bolster the community. Stick it on the disk and have a small article in the mag on how to create a quick fun game with it. Let it be the demo, but with no time limit (so that they can't compile). I really believe that if the average gamer knew that he/she could make their own games with something as intuitive as MMF2, the community would grow a ton, but the issue is that no one knows aboiut mmf2, and most average gamers think that they'd have to learn some complicated programming language to make their own game.
Absolutely - I've always thought that Clickteam could market their products a lot better, and it's never been more urgent to do so than at a time when competing products are coming out. I get the impression that Maxis/Corel/JASC (who published the previous products) were never bothered at all about marketing, like including a demo on a PC magazine coverdisk, for example. However, Clickteam are doing it all themselves now, so there's nothing stopping them. They could include the MMF2 demo on the coverdisk plus some of the best games to showcase its capabilities. I believe PC Zone cover indie games as a regular feature.
I think thats a bit harsh Tim. Everytime I've had a problem with CT software I've contacted them about it and they've always given me a helpful response... have you actually contacted them in regards to issues that you have with the software?
I think the fact that Clickteam has only 2 real programmers who make MMF2, they go a fantastic job, but that doesn't mean we can't be a little disappointed at the sluggish motion of a great program.
They do great, but don't we deserve just a little bit of selfishness? Perhaps it's time to ask for some assistance?
Wow, old topic. But looking back.. klik has always been the best product, IMHO, but unfortunately, it's hardly changed. In fact, so little has changed from MMF1 to MMF 1.5 to MMF2 that I feel a bit cheated. So far, the only extra things I've used are the built-in fastloop, more alterable values, and of course, the expression editor is much easier to read. Oh, and games made in MMF2 can't be opened with anything lower, so I had to upgrade because of that.
But other than that, it's still the same old thing. People are still making the same games for the last 7 years I've been kliking. Occasionally 1 big game sticks out from the pile every year, but that's really not enough to get people noticing.
I think, and have always thought that CT should organize a grand competition. Something with nice prizes and a 1-year or half-year time limit. The topic would be simply a 'show off what klik can do'. The top games are put on a MMF2 example disc along with MMF2 demo, which CT will try to get on game magazines, etc, free of charge. It shouldn't really cost CT that much.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
Well, community-wise there have been a few people who've seen Hasslevania stuff and asked me how I made it. Some have d/l'd the free MMF2 demo and have been impressed. Hopefully soon there'll be more people using the software
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"To be a true ninja you must first pick the most stealthy of our assorted combat suits. Might I suggest the bright neon orange?"
DXF Games, coming next: Hasslevania 2- This Space for Rent!
I think Muz is initially trying to reach a much wider audience though, and I agree with him here. It seems to me that over the years, CT has almost become more of a job than a hobby, and a means for those involved to make money 'on-the-side'.
The heart and thrive behind the game-making aspect in general and exploration of new features, pushing the boundaries of application (and so on) have never really been existant. The only way that people bump in to this software at the moment seems to be by WORD OF MOUTH!! It was by me - and the amount of people that have had a friend introduce them to this software is marginally huge when compared to the amount that had found this software on their own - when considering the nature and service this product provides.
CT should be striving to stick MMF in everyone's face, and show what making games is all about (within its due limitations ).
To be honest though, I think there is no motive force in attracting a global scene at the moment, because in many ways I think the team may be feeling guilty, or even embarrased as to how little advances they have made and with how they compare to other such competitors in the market (though this is not the entire reason, obviously - so don't jump the gun on me here as usual guys ¬_¬).
In all I'd just like to have a moan and tell CT to get their act together really, and release something considerable enough to shut us all up If it's a motive they need, then advertising their software to the world via ideas like Muz's, is the way forward no doubt.
I found klik when I saw some awesome Pokemon clones made with TGF
I've invited 4 friends to klik, but they're not so active. My future with klik
is that I keep making games with MMF2 and try to create something that I can be really proud of. I think that idea of a grand compo and a show-of-CD is awesome and I think it should be made
In my opinion, the future of click hangs on two things:
1) HWA, which we've now got (or will have by the new year),
2) A better programming environment.
It's only since learning a few programming languages that I've realised just how far behind MMF really is in terms of programming. It just doesn't seem to be designed with programming in mind.
In my opinion, Jamagic was - in programming terms - everything MMF should be. For all its faults, you could define includes, functions, objects, methods, variables, arrays, and all in a simple environment.
MMF needs the same. The conditions/actions/expressions system is fine, in fact it's brilliant. But it lacks ANY kind of referencing functions, which are the backbone of almost all scripting languages. I mean for pity's sake, even Basic has GOSUB.
Includes, custom conditions, actions and expressions, would all make MMF an awesome piece of kit. Not that Clickteam are actually bothered, of course.
In it's defense, MMF was created with the idea of 'Click and Play' hence KnP, so there's no programming required - you just click and select what you want to happen.
However, I do agree that MMF should now include some means of editing what is going on - it would enhance it's capabilites ten fold and give the user an unlimited series of options and effects etc. for what they want in their game, rather than being reduced to a couple of choices that the programmer thought of when you click in the events editor..
If you could code in to it, making your own events and stuff... Noone can disagree, that would be awesome.
Can you imagine though? Every frame could have the hero's attack group referenced to a single group instead of having to copy / paste the stupid thing a million times. And fixing it would be a snap, as you wouldn't have to fix one and then copy / paste the stupid thing a million more times.
GOSUB HERO ATTACK
That'd rule.
--
"Del Duio has received 0 trophies. Click here to see them all."
"To be a true ninja you must first pick the most stealthy of our assorted combat suits. Might I suggest the bright neon orange?"
DXF Games, coming next: Hasslevania 2- This Space for Rent!
Originally Posted by -Timothy- In it's defense, MMF was created with the idea of 'Click and Play' hence KnP, so there's no programming required
Yeah this is true but why isn't there basic programming functions when they can include Trig and etc in MMF? Shit, I understand coding (or at least the logical flow if it's a language I don't know) but am clueless to some of the advanced math functions of MMF myself. You would think that the average Joe Schmoe off the street might be in the same boat I am. What MMF feature would get more use from this guy? Advanced math equations or some simple coding procedures to eliminate needless copying / pasting over 50 frames?
--
"Del Duio has received 0 trophies. Click here to see them all."
"To be a true ninja you must first pick the most stealthy of our assorted combat suits. Might I suggest the bright neon orange?"
DXF Games, coming next: Hasslevania 2- This Space for Rent!
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A programing language lacks the speed and ease in development that mmf has.
Edited by the Author.
" - Del Duio
