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Yami



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4th August, 2004 at 23:46:36 -

Kris you may not ever know if its true, but you will never be able to say its false. The bible is set up where it cant be said it did or didnt happen. The main set up is faith and if theres no proof it wasnt godly then whose to say its not godly. Its so obvious the bible makes you decide what to believe is the truth.

 
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Radix

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5th August, 2004 at 00:09:49 -

But the fish part is irrelevant. Fish obviously live all over the world, and including in that time. So, if fish can swim, why take them?
Okay, I'll explain it again. There are different kinds of fish. sOme only live in saltwater, and some who can only survive in freshwater. Some can tolerate both, but there are many species of fish that, if you change the salinity of the water even slightly, will die. Therefore, if there was a flood, the entire world would have been covered in one large body of water, that would have to be either salty or fresh, right? While some fish might survive this, those fish that can only survive a certain level of salinity would have died. However, today these fish still exist, so there could not have been a flood. Is that clear enough?

If we aren't different species, then what are we? We obviously aren't different breeds, for the fact that we didn't breed to get black and white. If you can't believe that I'm arguing this point, why are we even arguing at all?
I can't believe you would argue something so obvious - this should really simple to understand. There are humans in different geographic locations with different features; this is due to environmental effects and isolation from other genepools. And we did breed to get different races, although not deliberately. For evample, higher melanin content in the skin of africans would protect them from skin cancer, while further north, what are now white europeans would have lived in glaciated areas during the ice ages, and melanin would not have been a contributing factor to reproduction. The two groups never came in contact, so there was no interbreeding and the racial traits developed in isolation.
All humans are of the same species (Homo Sapiens Sapiens), there is no genetic difference, and we are both able and willing to reproduce together. Telling different ethnicities that they belong to another species is good way to get various fluids beaten out of you.

 
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Yami



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5th August, 2004 at 01:40:06 -

Radix God can do anything even what you think is impossible isnt to him. Another thing when someone ask who made God. He wouldnt be the creator of life if something created him now would he. Dustin what I meant was there are theorys that Jesus lived. Another thing im wondering how can people thousands of years ago write in a book about prophecys that have happened if God didnt tell them anything.

 
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Assault Andy

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5th August, 2004 at 02:02:18 -

This is becoming a very long post. 10 Pages . Religious games are dumb.

 
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Zaku



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5th August, 2004 at 02:03:34 -

Well, what a strange thing to stumble upon first joining. Religion in gaming...bah. Anyways it seems to me that all this mess started just because Yami stated that you shouldnt say cuss words in front of the bible and then in the next post he stated his beliefs, against Eviscerator. Maybe it was a little agrresive, but i'm sure it upset him somewhat when you put his belief down. Besides every single one of you went about this using harshness and basically just trying to make the other side look stupid for believing what they believe. This argument is obviously not going to solve a thing and everyone will walk away from it with the same beliefs they started with, so why even bother having it? This is argument is only creating hatred between the two sides.

ps. Yami...dont tell people theyre goin to Hell, it only makes things worse.

 
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Radix

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5th August, 2004 at 02:15:58 -

Radix God can do anything even what you think is impossible isnt to him.
Yami, you're hardly worth responding to. 'God did it' isn't an argument. If god created the universe, then he created a universe of laws and logic. Romans 1:20 says that God is to be "understood from what has been made." If he acts contrary to laws that he himself made, that makes him a deveiver. Lying is naughty. God is all good. Etcetera.


Another thing im wondering how can people thousands of years ago write in a book about prophecys that have happened if God didnt tell them anything.
The act of retrodiction allows prophesies to be written after the fact. The bible has been rewritten many times, so you can't claim the bible in its current state is as it was when its parts were first written. The bible is also pretty vague, like all Nostrodamus' crap.
Many of it's prophesies are wrong, too, so any that apparently come true cannot be taken as proof. For example:
- Joshua said that God would, without fail, drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites, among others [Josh. 3:9-10]. But those tribes were not driven out [Josh. 15:63, 17:12-13].
- Isaiah 17:1-3 says Damascus will cease to be a city and be deserted forever, yet it is inhabited still.
- Ezekiel said Egypt would be made an uninhabited wasteland for forty years [29:10-14], and Nebuchadrezzar would plunder it [29:19-20]. Neither happened.



 
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Zaku



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5th August, 2004 at 02:37:57 -

Ok, well, just because youre sayin that the scripture is wrong...i have to say this.

First off, Joshua never said that God told him that he was going to do it, Joshua just told them that as a kind of a pep talk really, God himself never stated he would do it, and besides, everything turned out well for them, at least for then.

Number 2. Damascus is inhabited now yes, but i didnt see anywhere about it saying it would be destroyed FOREVER.

Number 3. Well, God said it would become unihabitated for 40 years, and theres no record of it NOT happening anywhere, so it probably happened. I'm also sure Nebuchanezzer did plunder, but sense God said it would happen there was really no use in later saying it happened, cause the event wouldn't have affected israel or the Jews at all.

 
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BattleCat



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5th August, 2004 at 02:40:04 -

This has gotten to a point where it's stupid to continue arguing. No-one is going to pursade anyone to believe anything different from what they do now.
I have some stuff to say though but i won't, it would just prolong this thing :-/

 
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Zaku



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5th August, 2004 at 02:47:35 -

Evis, didnt i kinda already say it was pointless? Well, at least someone else realizes it.

 
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Radix

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5th August, 2004 at 02:50:57 -

1.
9 And Joshua said unto the children of Israel, Come hither, and hear the words of the LORD your God.
10 And Joshua said, Hereby ye shall know that the living God is among you, and that he will without fail drive out from before you the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Hivites, and the Perizzites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Jebusites.


"hear the words of the LORD your God" is pretty clear.


2.
1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.
2 The cities of Aroer are forsaken: they shall be for flocks, which shall lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
3 The fortress also shall cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus, and the remnant of Syria: they shall be as the glory of the children of Israel, saith the LORD of hosts.


3.
Ezekiel predicted that Nebuchadnezzar would plunder the island city of Tyre, and raze it permanently to the bare rock. Nebby died roughly 560 BC, and Tyre didn't fall till 332 BC. There is supporting evidence for this.

 
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Zaku



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5th August, 2004 at 03:03:59 -

1 Joshua just said that because he knew that unless he said God said it they wouldn't listen. There is no record anywhere of God telling him that he said it

2. and Damascus is no longer a kingdom is it?

3. Wait, wait...i thought we were talking about Egypt. And tell me plundering means stealing does it not? It has nothing to do with destroying the city.

 
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Radix

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5th August, 2004 at 03:19:45 -

1.
So Joshua is a manipulating lyer. If he's going to lie about god talking to him then, why should anything else he says be treated as a prophesy?

2.
Ceasing is ceasing, no matter what it's called (and keep in mind this is a translation). Since two lines earlier it calls it a 'ruinous heap,' the context is pretty clear.

3.
You claimed he 'probably' did it, because there's no evidence of it not happening (the lack of evidence is not an argument, by the way). I'm giving you an example that is almost identical, where we have firm proof that Ezekiel is a dirty, dirty fibber. Although, there's probably evidence of him not doing anything to Egypt, I just couldn't find any with a quick search.

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Zaku



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5th August, 2004 at 03:31:06 -

1 Well, if theres only proof he lied once...then that really cant be considered being a liar. He was human, he made mistakes.

2. well, are you 100% that the same Damascus that exists today was the one that existed then? If so, please show me evidence, besides it never really specified that it couldn't be rebuilt. I'm pretty sure it was, but not 100% positive.

3. Yes well, how does t prove hes a dirty dirty fibber. He said it would be plundered by Nebby, and I'm sure it was. But again it really woudn't have any affect on Israel or the Jews so it just wasn't brought up again i'm sure.

 
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Radix

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5th August, 2004 at 03:54:25 -

1.
The point is, that's an example of a prophesy, said by a prophet and recorded in the bible, not coming true. You're being selective by saying "oh, well that one didn't happen, so he must've been lying that time and it doesn't count" If you could do this all the time, then if 99% of the prophesies in the book don't come true, you can claim the 1% that did constitutes biblical validity. It don't.

2.
The onus is on you to supply evidence that it was rebuilt, not me to prove that it was. Regardless, cessation is cessation. If Damascus was destroyed, then picked up again elsewhere, then it never really ceased. Besides, Damascus is still in Syria. Who the hell packs up a city and moves it a few kilometers away?

3. Tyre was not plundered by Nebuchadnezzar. Neither was Egypt. Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant. Again, this is an instance of a prophet who made an incorrect prophesy. You can't pick and choose.

I'm glad I only picked three false prophesies, otherwise we'd be here all week.

 
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Zaku



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5th August, 2004 at 04:13:51 -

1. Joshua, was NOT a prophet. He was selected to lead the jews into the promised land. He was supposed to be a leader not a prophet. If i felt like it now i could give you a list of prophecies alone that were fuliflled just in the coming of Jesus and his life. Now if you dont believe in the bible the prophecies wouldn't mean anything to you but it would prove it doesnt contradict itself 99% of the time.

2. You, probably couldn't find any, and besides, I really am kinda sleepy and don't feel like looking for evidence right now. Maybe later. Besides someone else probably just named another city Damascus. I'll look it up when I'm not so sleepy.

3.Dude, you can't prove they weren't plundered, it wasn't really important at all so it just isn't recorded.

Besides it really is a pointless debate because I'm no religious expert so I can't just shoot a bunch of scriptures at you. You can't just start taking scriptures out of context and start shooting stuff off. Alot of answers in the bible arent found anywhere near the initial problem and i do not feel like searching the whole bible for a few irrelevent occurences. Anyways, I'm sleepy so I'm going to sleep.

PS could you mail me a link or post a link where you're getting all these "false prophecies" from. I'd really like to check it out.


 
"HAKUNA MATATA"
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