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Muz



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13th October, 2008 at 08:53:37 -

I think the problem is that people are forced to work in teams now and to look at the market before anything. Any creativity is stifled because the big companies see selling games like selling toys, not art.

It's not that there's anything wrong with big teams, it's just that they're forced to squeeze their vision into a narrower box. Look at Spore.. it's obviously a well thought out idea, but dumbed down greatly from what Will Wright first explained. The Sims on the other hand wasn't dumbed down or anything, it was just a light project till it became so rich that EA had enough money to buy out most of their competitors.

One interesting thing is that most of the "classics" didn't really sell well. Sure, they were great, Fallout, Dungeon Keeper, etc, but they ended up bankrupting the company almost every time. I don't know.. maybe art and money don't mix. Maybe games are meant to be indie.

What I do know is that the most ambitious game of all time, Dwarf Fortress, is being made by a single person based on stories written by his brother. Sure they listen to fans, but even though they could work as a huge team, they don't.

 
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Dr. James MD

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13th October, 2008 at 10:54:16 -

Yea. Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Lemmings, Street Fighter, Worms, Counterstrike, Starcraft, Pokemon didn't sell well at all.


It seems to me that the Nintendo Wii, with it's unique controllers, could be the most interesting thing to happen to gaming for quite some time. Admittedly, I've never played on one, so I don't know if any of the games are any good, but at least it has the *potential* for developers to come up with some more innovative games.


It does and it doesn't. It makes some games feel brilliant to play and actually makes the FPS format almost as enjoyable as the PC does, and stuff like Lost Winds is just brilliant to play. But it isn't a sweeping new setup that can play everything before it perfectly - stuff like Brawl is best with the standard controller still.
But without the Wii I'd likely have dropped out of the console market and stuck to handhelds and PC only.

 
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13th October, 2008 at 12:31:48 -


Originally Posted by Dr. James
But without the Wii I'd likely have dropped out of the console market and stuck to handhelds and PC only.


I don't think I've touched my 360 in a year, I've only really touched my computer and handheld (DS).



 
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13th October, 2008 at 13:33:52 -

For me handhelds now are like the late 90's in console gaming. There's little immersion and potential for great graphics so more effort is put onto the gameplay. Or so it seems. I could happily drop consoles now so long as I had a constant stream of handheld games and PC games will always have indie games that value inventive gameplay and alternative business models compared to PC games (WTF Blizzard want us to pay 3 different games for SC2?!).

 
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Sketchy

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13th October, 2008 at 14:56:23 -

I totally agree, handhelds have some great games. Infact, a lot of my favourite games have been for handhelds - MoleMania for gameboy, AdvanceWars, Fire Emblem and GoldenSun series' for GBA, etc.


Originally Posted by Dr. James
For me handhelds now are like the late 90's in console gaming.



A lot of the best games on nintendo handhelds at least are remakes of '90s (and '80s) console games. Looking at my list of faves, FireEmblem and AdvanceWars were both essentially SNES games, while GoldenSun started out on the NES. Then there are the remakes of Zelda, Mario,...

 
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alibaba



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14th October, 2008 at 16:37:30 -


Originally Posted by Sketchy

I personally prefer good pixelart over 3d graphics anyday



I agree. I recently played through Monkey Island I,II,III, and IV. The graphics for all the games are different - I and II has some great pixel art, i loved those 2 games more than any other before or since. III goes completely different and goes cartoony but is still beautiful....then along comes 4 and for some stupid reason some idiot decided to make it 3D.No, no no no no no no ! What are you doing. It was awful.

Same thing with Simon the Sorcerer - Who thought making that in 3D would be a good idea? some games are best left in 2D

 
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16th October, 2008 at 22:52:46 -

The other thing i thought of is the difficulty level. Maybe I was just very uncoordinated when I was younger, but I'm sure games are easier these days. There's not such a feeling of accomplishment when you do complete a game. I guess everyone wants instant gratification (and it's cheaper and easier to make short games too).

 
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16th October, 2008 at 23:13:42 -


Originally Posted by alibaba

Originally Posted by Sketchy

I personally prefer good pixelart over 3d graphics anyday



I agree. I recently played through Monkey Island I,II,III, and IV. The graphics for all the games are different - I and II has some great pixel art, i loved those 2 games more than any other before or since. III goes completely different and goes cartoony but is still beautiful....then along comes 4 and for some stupid reason some idiot decided to make it 3D.No, no no no no no no ! What are you doing. It was awful.

Same thing with Simon the Sorcerer - Who thought making that in 3D would be a good idea? some games are best left in 2D

Like worms. Who the crap thought 3d worms would be a good idea?!

 
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17th October, 2008 at 03:17:40 -

Worms 3D was awesome .
I actually liked it better than the 2D ones.

 
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Muz



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17th October, 2008 at 09:52:44 -

That's just it. Everyone wants to make a game that sells more these days. Games have become like the music industry - you could make a lot of good stuff, or you could make something that the reviewers and magazines will love.

What I hate is that modern games are getting their theories wrong. Look at games like FIG, Counter-Strike, Fallout, Knytt Stories. They were made without any theories. Look at Empire Earth 2 and 3, or any modern FPS.. those games are stuffed full of game design theories.

Formulas and trends don't work with art (except in the case of movies, where it works wonderfully!). You can't say "Worms = fun", "3D = good", thus "Worms 3D = AAA game!"

 
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Dr. James MD

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17th October, 2008 at 12:03:31 -


Originally Posted by Sketchy

A lot of the best games on nintendo handhelds at least are remakes of '90s (and '80s) console games. Looking at my list of faves, FireEmblem and AdvanceWars were both essentially SNES games, while GoldenSun started out on the NES. Then there are the remakes of Zelda, Mario,...



GoldenSun never started out on the NES. The first game was on the GBA. Was there even an Advance Wars on the SNES? That started on the NES but it didn't come into its own until the GBA versions. There has only been 1 Zelda port, and no Mario/Zelda/Metroid ports at all on the DS.


Originally Posted by M

What I hate is that modern games are getting their theories wrong. Look at games like FIG, Counter-Strike, Fallout, Knytt Stories. They were made without any theories. Look at Empire Earth 2 and 3, or any modern FPS.. those games are stuffed full of game design theories.


Wasn't Fig a MMF version of some Flash game though? Hmm.
But I disagree. You're just using your list of fave games again Muz (and picking bad games with obvious design flaws as examples). Looking over the good games that sell (Mario, GTA, Pokemon) they do have a formula or theory that they follow through on all their games. It's incredibly short sighted to say that theories=bad.

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17th October, 2008 at 14:11:45 -

I wasn't saying that Worms 3D was good BECAUSE it was 3D, I just liked it.
I liked it better than the 2D ones. I thought it was more fun.
And you can have all the special effects, and great graphics, and hardware acceleration, but FUN is what games are about.

 
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Sketchy

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17th October, 2008 at 14:46:52 -

DrJames: You're right about Golden Sun. It turns out some chinese company had just ported it to the NES - why I do not know. They did the same with Tomb Raider and a few others. There was indeed a super famicom wars. Metroid?

 
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17th October, 2008 at 14:49:23 -

Probably the same chinese studio who ported FF7 to the NES. Those nutters!

 
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17th October, 2008 at 14:51:36 -


Originally Posted by Dr. James
...Those nutters!



LOL!

 
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