Hi guys.
I've come to the conclusion that the reason i never finish a game is because i don't plan ahead. I get an idea, work on my game a bit and then i forget about it.
How do you guys handle it when you get a new game idea? Do you write an extensive document detailing everything, do you just jump into battle, or ... ?
I usually start by thinking up a character, then a concept that could be based around it, the way the character could move or be used in a game. That's pretty much what happened for my latest projects.
I toss things up every now and then. It depends on how good the idea is, how much of it I'm going to be doing myself (My graphics are no good) and the way I did it last time.
Usually if I get an idea I make a one-frame proof of concept. If it's good I tidy it up and release it to a few people and TDC. If the idea seems to click with people who will be playing the final product then the idea is good enough that I don't let it go and I don't get bored of remaking it. (Keeping things too secret is generally a bad idea, I think. Balance, young padawan!) Sometimes with less fantastic ideas, I'll leave the file alone for months (or years) and come back to it and finish it off. Sometimes they just sit and waste space.
With the super good (rare) ones, structure isn't important for me. Though sometimes I'll employ it anyway if I'm smart and the idea isn't too big. I'll get it done one way or another, even if it takes me awhile because I have to redo things to accommodate new features or engine fixes. With ideas that are neat but not big or super awesome, I'll actually write things down. (I think it's because the great ideas are usually easier to remember every aspect of. They're often simpler. ) Chunks of "engines" that need programmed, a list of graphical assets I need to draw or pass off to an artist, bonus ideas I may implement later if I feel like it. But only AFTER I've started and really made sure it's a good idea. Often when I'm stuck in some aspect of programming I find that organizing my plan and making sure everything is written down before I forget it makes it so that I feel like I'm accomplishing something and not wasting my time. If you get discouraged you're more likely to drop the project. So always take breaks and find other creative ways to work on the project if you hit a snag. Making pretend promotional material is always a good idea. It helps if these diversions are actually related to the project. It's not always a bad idea to go work on another game for a while (I do it often) but if you stay focused on one project then you become more and more resolved to finish it.
If I'm ever working with other people, or I ever get an idea that was based even only infinitesimally on something someone said, I write everything down. Helps prevent messes. GDD's also let your mind take a break from graphics and programming, and stretch your brain into language mode. Though that may just be me, I know a lot of people don't like to write.
But really, my life story aside, the best thing you can do is just try a different way if what you're doing isn't working.
Depends. For Lunnye it was just "hey I like this song, lets make a game based around it". For Sam I got an email from some guy telling me to remake it, so I built a little engine demo and the whole game rolled out from there. Tormi was an educational game thing about cave safety and nothing at all in any way shape or form related to how the game is now. As that game progressed I wrote up a beefy design doc which spurred on new ideas.
One of my latest projects was inspired by a film I recently saw.
I've never done the document before starting the game itself but I like to lay it all out in document form quite early on and make hella amendments later.
I don't think planning ahead when using MMF is essential, since you can achieve literally anything in MMF in no time! Even if you change a major part of something it often doesn't take longer than a few hours.
Personally, i get an idea and just build up from there to see what MMF can do with it. Saying that, i've never finished a big project and i've used Clickteam software for about 8 years or so.
I start out thinking through all the details first.
eg. In a strategy game, that would mean thinking up the different units, terrain types, etc - right down to their actual stats. I don't make a design-document as such, but loads of little text files in notepad.
Then I make lots of little tech-demos of the different mechanisms.
eg. The unit movement, the combat system, the map editor, the map loading, etc.
Then I start doing all the graphics...
Then I get distracted, and forget all about clicking for a year or so, or maybe just have another idea for a game - either way, I never get any further
Originally Posted by -Nick- I don't think planning ahead when using MMF is essential, since you can achieve literally anything in MMF in no time! Even if you change a major part of something it often doesn't take longer than a few hours.
Personally, i get an idea and just build up from there to see what MMF can do with it. Saying that, i've never finished a big project and i've used Clickteam software for about 8 years or so.
This is the same process for me
But I make a LOT of tiny engines and mess-arounds/experiments. Eventually I pool a lot of those skills together to create something that's actually decent, but I still have a lot of trouble with staying motivated for a game.
I also just make engines/ideas in a day or two, then if i like it I keep on working on it. But I always plan bigger things than I bother to make. Kill the darlings
In school however, you need to have all paperwork done before you even can start making the engine.
I like to list down everything that needs to be done. It gives me an idea of the scope I'm doing, and it gives me like a checklist of things to do. Checklists are fun.
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I make text documents of random ideas and things,then make the engine,then levels,then all that stuff inbetween,then menu.
reasons why I sometimes lose focus and start hating my project are because I have an "awesome" idea in my head,in order to stop that,upon thinking of the idea,I either type it in text documents or make an engine of it,file it under:my examples,and see if I come back to it later.
I also find that creating a project page on TDC is a good way to log your progress and goals and talk about what you want to implement. Just helps keep you on track. Also, if people are kind enough to post comments, it's really encouraging.
I'm going to highlight important points in bold, in case you skim like I do
For the projects I've released, it's usually just something I've started that went well enough to continue. Though they're quite small games, with not a lot to them, they've been good experience in completing projects.
I guess just go for it with heaps of passion, and don't set your sights too high. Then maybe you can start releasing a few small games to get the experience of completing projects, then you can aim higher! Should help in the snags you can hit in the final stages of game development, allow you to properly carry through and finish off larger projects.
Too much planning can kind of exhaust your enthusiasm, it's almost like finishing the game without having anything to show for it. I think, if you start with a basic outline, and some clear goals, and some definite features you wish to include, the rest kind of builds itself through making and testing - you find out what works by experiencing it first-hand after making it, rather than thinking 'that should be fun, I'll plan around that'.
It's easy to be flexible when working solo, you can stop at any point and review the design, make changes, even remove features if they're not working - don't be afraid to scrap stuff just because you spent a lot of time on them. With the game I'm working on at the moment, I've gone through 3 or 4 scraps of entire game segments and fully-integrated game mechanics. It's SO worth it. Without scrapping the old stuff, I wouldn't have come up with what I have for it now, which I think will be extremely successful. It's kept the momentum going, since I started working on a completely new system that I'd definitely be happy with in the end, rather than carrying a project through that I know could be so much better - I'd be more prone to giving up, and the end result would make me wonder why I bothered.
I'd also go with posting a Project page here. I can't do it for my current project, but I wish I could
I was just thinking back to the time before internet, where me and a friend of mine would create stuff in KnP constantly. Every time we visited one another we'd be like "lemme show what i've made, it's amazing!". Great times.
But i was thinking that maybe my standards are too high now. Back then, i didn't have anybody to compare my work to, other than my friend. Today i have a whole world of games to compare to, and i'm thinking that might affect my level of passion towards my projects because i want my stuff to be just as high in quality as other games I see.
Nothing wrong with high expectations. They're certainly not keeping me from making games
Disclaimer: Any sarcasm in my posts will not be mentioned as that would ruin the purpose. It is assumed that the reader is intelligent enough to tell the difference between what is sarcasm and what is not.
I'm with you on that. Sometimes I'm sitting there biting my lip over the piece of smelly crap I just created, and then I remember that I'm not a professional. If you look at some comparable games here on TDC, if they have a fun premise then usually people enjoy them. They would be better with (in my case) good graphics and tweaked programming of course, but that's what team remakes are for. ;D
I wouldn't say that comparing your games to "pro" indie games is something you should avoid though. Doing so has definitely changed the way I do some things for the better. It just helps to realize that you probably aren't going to reach quite as high a level of quality as you want. Even the better designers that drop by here would probably say that their projects aren't as glamorous or perfect as they imagined. I also wouldn't necessarily say that you should just (read this in a floaty, cheesy, artsy fartsy tone) be true to yourself and make what's in your heart, regardless of whether or not other people will like it. You are, after all, making these games for other people to play, so there are certain considerations you have to make.
Playing other games on TDC helps too in that aspect; usually you look at some crazy project page and think wow, I could never do something like that. But to be honest, I download the games that are submitted here more often now and it really teaches you a thing or two; not to get hung up on crazy coding or physics and stuff; those are really cool, but often you come across a klik game which is simple but really fun and it just demonstrates that it's all about working toward making something fun for everyone. At least for yourself to begin with; if you aren't happy with it, why should you expect others to be? Though as OMC points out, if you really want to make a successful game for others, you will need to consider them ahead of yourself
For me personally, my first challenge is to make it fun for me. And then I can work on making it fun for others. Don't forget that. Especially as the game designer, you know the ins and outs of your project, so if you don't think about others before you submit it, you will find a lot of negative comments about how shoddy it is to play or awkward or things don't work they way they should expect them to.
I greatly agree with things Neuro said too. I've done heaps of scrappy little things and they really help you in the long run to work on a better project, they are a REALLY important part of your game making process as a clicker.
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) Chunks of "engines" that need programmed, a list of graphical assets I need to draw or pass off to an artist, bonus ideas I may implement later if I feel like it. But only AFTER I've started and really made sure it's a good idea. Often when I'm stuck in some aspect of programming I find that organizing my plan and making sure everything is written down before I forget it makes it so that I feel like I'm accomplishing something and not wasting my time. If you get discouraged you're more likely to drop the project. So always take breaks and find other creative ways to work on the project if you hit a snag. Making pretend promotional material is always a good idea. It helps if these diversions are actually related to the project. It's not always a bad idea to go work on another game for a while (I do it often) but if you stay focused on one project then you become more and more resolved to finish it.
If you look at some comparable games here on TDC, if they have a fun premise then usually people enjoy them. They would be better with (in my case) good graphics and tweaked programming of course, but that's what team remakes are for. ;D